Would It Work ? – Open for sensible debate.
Comments
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SteveL, you write "Even if you take up all your bookings, for some it would be a large outlay at a time of year they cannot afford it." surely spreading the cost of a holiday over two payments is far better than having to pay the full amount at one time. Perhaps this is why some cancel when they realise how much they have got to pay out at one go.
To safeguard against deposits being paid but which then result in 'no-shows', the easy way around this, (assuming that most people pay using a credit / debit card), is to state that a deposit will be taken from the card at the time of booking with the balance taken the day that arrival on site is due unless 72 hours notice of cancellation is given. We wouldn't even have to remember to pay it, it would be done automatically.
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two points here, why are you (or one) so keen to hand over your money to the club so early in the form of a deposit? Isn't it better to keep the money in your bank account? Especially as the club has stated that deposits don't work? I can understand the need in booking a thousand pound plus holiday but not a £25 per night weekend
Second I personally don't like the idea of giving the club or anyone permission to take money out of my account sometime in the future. Would you be happy to buy a car this way?
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John
Just to be clear I wasn't promoting speculative booking per se. However if you know you want to be somewhere around a certain date but are awaiting work holiday confirmation it is an option.
However I would question how difficult it is to book sites. OK there are going to be some sites for which there is a greater demand and even if there was a deposit system it would be unlikely to make it easier to book those sites. We are retired, and have been for the past 10 years, and we rarely book a long way in advance as circumstances tend to conspire against you at our age. We have just returned from a ten day trip to Clumber Park, Bridlington and Poolsbrook. In order to book we had to go a week earlier than planned but otherwise we had no problems. However those bookings were only made three weeks before departure so if you can have a degree of flexibility there are always options. We do use C&CC sites as well and they use a deposit system so we rarely book more than a week in advance.
I think there is another issue at play here. The CMC always want there to be a point of difference between the two Clubs and a major one is that of deposits. In my view the C&CC system is very member unfriendly. Those wanting to book a couple of Bank Holidays and a two week summer holiday would have to invest a lot of money upfront.
David
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'In my view the C&CC system is very member unfriendly'
I assume you are suggesting that as much as £100 deposit in this day and age is not affordable to all the poor members of the CC?
Although it does allow some members to book up every weekend in the year to the detriment of many.
The only practical difference I find is that the C&CC allow tents on most (?) of their sites.
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"Second I personally don't like the idea of giving the club or anyone permission to take money out of my account sometime in the future. Would you be happy to buy a car this way? "
Corners, youre joking, arent you?
surely millions of people buy cars (and plenty of other stuff) in this way...never heard of PCP or Hire Purchase or a 'car loan'?
agreed, the 'well heeled' (i slipped that in as you liked that one
) core membership might just pay cash for their cars (and caravans and MHs) but very many dont operate in this world, with PCP deals for cars (and now MHs) becoming a way into new vehicles for those on more moderate incomes.i also agree that this point about 'having to shell out for xxx deposits in December' is not the issue some make it out to be, after all, the holidays have to be paid for and, as has been said, paying a percentage in December isnt anywhere near the actual outlay when going on tour.
a 30 day tour might cost, say, £300 in deposits, yet in that 30 days on site, fees of approx £700-£1000+ would be due.
we dont here much moaning about having to pay this huge amount, do we?
i dont necessarily agree with deposits, but using the 'cost issue' as an argument doesnt wash....IMHO, of course.
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From a business point of view a non deposit system doesn't make sense even though it's a very attractive idea for the customers. It must be based on the fact that the club feels confident it can fill cancellations and no shows at peak times. Presumably they lose at non peak times.
The C&CC ask for a minimum £25 deposit, or a total payment on a short break or 25% of the total holiday cost. Cash flow and revenue are balanced out.
I don't know how the club accounting system works, maybe they are offsetting losses but it doesn't make financial sense to me.
However I'm not going to be a turkey voting for Christmas.
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Steve, yes I was advocating total loss of deposit but variations in this means more effort and probably cost for the Club. Apart from Moris Leisure I think the C&CC allow you to retain the deposit for use on another site if you cancel early enough. I stand to be corrected on that as I have never had to cancel so not entirely sure of the procedure but the procedure is what seems to generate the complaints.
The reason the deposit system failed when the Club used to make a charge was the deposit was not big enough. As ET has pointed out, £10 was niether here or there when it came to not turning up. I would make it a percentage of the holiday cost with a minimum charge and charge the full wack for short stay bookings.i.e. less than three nights. That way with short stay no shows the Club has lost nothing. Paying a deposit up front being unaffordable doesn't hold water, you are paying part of the total costs with less to pay on arrival, a bit like HP really. It is not making the cost of the holiday any more expensive.
Finally it is worth noting that even with a deposit system the C&CC has been more profitable than the CMC over the last 4 years even though the CMC pitch bookings have increased. Given that in both Clubs a very large slice of revenue comes from selling pitches, the C&CC must be doing something right. (source of statement, both Clubs' accounts)
peedee
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The thing about threads like this is that they seem to revolve around two recurring themes/myths (pick your own description!).
One is that huge numbers of folk block book speculatively on frenzy and the other that (possibly related to that) all club sites are booked up within 24 hours.
As far as the first is concerned the club have produced figures which seem to show that only a handful of members make more than 3 or 4 bookings on that day and, leaving aside, say Rowntree, Chatsworth and Baltic Wharf, the second is simply not the case. Most sites have full weeks pretty much throughout the year well into January and even later.
So, by and large the system seems to work well for most members and I can't see a scheme such as the one suggested helping at all as far as those "honeypot" sites are concerned.
The problem, such as it is, comes back to the fact that there are insufficient pitches available for a growing membership.
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I was referring to a large outlay at Christmas time if bookings are made in December as we do. Potentially 100 nights at £10 (£1000) we are fortunate in that we could afford it, many probably could not. So if the club offers no incentive over other providers they may well loose out.
As to using your card as you suggest. If the Club went down that route I would not have a problem with that. We already do this with ferry companies. Brittany ferries have a different approach. A small initial deposit, then the rest paid about 6 weeks before. After that any cancellations are handled on a sliding scale with so much back as money and so much as a voucher against future travel. At a week before you loose it all and have to claim on insurance.
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The thing is if I am going to loose my money if I can't or won't go, the club need to offer me something, or I may as well go elsewhere.
As a for instance I have booked hotels in Ashford either end of our Eurostar trip to the Provence. By booking well in advance and opting to loose everything if we don't show, we got the rooms at half the normal rate. Now if the CAMC offered that 👍🍾😀
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I am very happy with the system as it is. For health reasons i don't book months ahead so i just work around what is available. More importantly i would hate to pay a deposit because there are times when i have had to cancel at the last minute, i'd much rather not.
i'm sure i'm not the only one in this situation.
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Are you trying to ruffle feathers again BB or this time splitting feathers
?There is a world of difference between HP and PCP and what was being proposed as I suspect you know very well
. You haven’t read the previous post that I was replying to have you? It said that you book your stay with your debit./credit card and a deposit is taken (Ok up to there ) then the remainder of your payment is taken out automatically on a certain date from that card. Now I have to admit that HP and PCP are a thing of the past and it may have changed but I seem to remember I did not give my debit/credit card details and gave permission to take money from that account (debit/credit card) automatically. I will have signed to say I would pay back the amount owning and I (stress the word I) will have set up a direct debit. I would be in control of that money going to the loan/PCP company. I could stop that DD at any time for a particular reason.1 -
+1 (I like to see change)
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It's been unfriendly since they changed the conditions for a deposit refund from 7 days to a month. It wouldn't be so bad if they allowed the transfer of that deposit to another site at a later date. That is why I only book a week ahead when using C&CC sites.
Members are perfectly entitled to book every weekend under current rules and if they fulfill that by turning up for every booking what is the problem?
I know the general view is that all CMC members are over the age of 60 but there are many younger members, probably on much tighter budgets than many of us pensioners. To pay out large deposits so far in advance could cause issues for some. That is the advantage of the CMC system it allows people time to save before they pay. Some won't have any sympathy for that point of view but I do.
David
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I'm retired now so I absolutely don't want to be organised and plan and book my year ahead any more. I have several other hobbies too and other means of travelling so I just fit in a m/h trip or extend a current one at short notice if and when the fancy takes me.. It's not always possible book a Club site at short notice, hence one (only one) reason for touring mostly abroad (not in August) where I have always been able to just turn up at a site without booking ahead. When I occasionally travel in U.K. the CLs suit me fine and there's usually one with space nearby if not exactly where I want to be. I'm on the move all day anyway so can also use Britstops, pubs, or a commercial site. Having access to Club sites is just another (usually last resort) option for me and worth the minimal membership fee.
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incidentally I also don't like the practice where hotels swipe my card at the start of a visit saying they'll take the amount out at the end? When it's my card I say I'll pay there and then. On 'business' I don't care as I use Liz's card and I reckon she's good for it.
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No I do as well. Not always being so well heeled as some would believe, with a young family and I was the only one working the money for the summer holidays used to come in from the marking which was paid end of July, just in time.
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What is the perception of the customer? Where is the evidence one way or the other? I can only go by what I see expressed on this forum as I don't have access to Club polling or customer service surveys which I am sure must take place. Working on a straw poll sort of basis it seems there are a greater number of people are happy with the system than there are who are unhappy. That, of course, doesn't mean the system is perfect, few are. Also within the lifetime of this forum there have been changes to the booking system regarding late cancellations and early departure from sites. Perhaps there will be further changes. What is difficult is to work out where the consensus is because even within that group who want the system changed there are different solutions.
David
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What if frenzy day wasn't in December? Does anyone know why it's in December? What about those that want new year holidays and have to book in 2 stages? Does that still happen?
Never booked or even thought about using frenzy day when working or now not working. Like many others we book when we know where and when we're going. Sites chosen by location, facilities assuming there's a choice, they can be any type of site if the club don't offer what we want at a price we want to pay they loose out.
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I assume you mean do not turn up, not those that don't book weekends?
If they give 72 hours notice then nothing, these are the current rules that we sign and agree to when joining the club. Still no problem.
If however they do not turn up or cancel after the 72 hours then I believe they get a letter, three of those and they lose their future bookings and membership of the club.
Again people are talking as if you must take your stay on a club site or are forced to join the club. If you don’t agree with these rules then other products are available. As we are constantly being told there are far better sites out there than club sites. Most of which will happily take your non refundable deposit if you are so desperate to pay them or have them.
Of course you have to ask why these other sites are not as full or as popular as club sites?
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I really wished I could put my fingers on the statistics now, but there are a relatively small number of site nights booked on 'booking day'. However, the most popular sites do tend to get booked up quickly. I have no strong feeling about having a 'booking day' or a 'rolling booking system'.
I am, however, strongly in favour of no deposits (i.e. the current system). The Club ditched the deposit system years ago, partly because of no shows. After having paid a deposit, folk felt under no obligation to tell the Club if they were cancelling. As a result there were a larger proportion of pitches that could not be offered to members as they were thought to be booked and no way of knowing if the pitches became vacant until the 'no show'. The Club has a 'membership' advantage over commercial sites and has the power to suspend membership for frequent offenders.
David
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+1
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+1😇 Excellent post
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Members get around the late cancellation 72 hr window by not cancelling their booking, but merely changing the dates for the same site. This can be done the day before a member is due to travel by going online and amending the booking, selecting new dates at a later time. Then, the new booking is cancelled resulting in no letter or black mark from the Club. How do I know this, a warden told me how to do it
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