Would It Work ? – Open for sensible debate.
With so many people complaining about the frenzied booking when the system opens in early December I thought I would try to suggest a solution for those not able to book so early due to work or other restrictions. Whilst I don’t fall foul of the system so much now, I have done in the past when works holiday dates could not be booked until well into the new year and especially when trying to include a weekend.
Would it work if every site allowed only 50% of their pitches to be booked at any time from the December booking date with the remaining 50% not being bookable until no more than 2 months before the planned visit date? Most people, I think, should be able to work around this for planned main holidays. This should accommodate those that must fully book their year in advance and those that cannot.
I’m sure, (he says, tongue firmly in cheek), that the IT department could tweek the online booking program to accommodate this.
Whether it is a workable solution I don’t know, it’s just a germ of an idea to solve what is a problem for many members but remains fair to all. There may be an obvious reason why it wouldn’t work that is staring me in the face but I haven’t seen it. I’m sure someone will point it out if there is one.
Contrary to what some are against and reject out of hand, I think deposits would be a good idea. I cannot understand why some people are so against them unless they are seriously worried about losing them. The site fees have to be paid at some time so why not spread the cost? There are many things in life that require a deposit, caravans and motorhomes being a good example.
With the current system there must be some members who book very early but know that they may well change their mind closer to the date, although I doubt that any would admit to this. I personally know one couple who regularly cancel bookings, not necessarily at the last minute but nonetheless may have deprived someone else from being able to book and they have to consequently look for an alternative site. Non-refundable deposits would reduce this sort of behaviour I believe.
I guess I will receive some flak but it would be nice to have a sensible debate.
Comments
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The current system works well for me personally, but then I don't take part in frenzie day
Whether your idea would work I'm not sure: it's only the (perceived?) honeypot sites which get booked up early. Keeping hold of 50% of pitches until your suggested 2 months before planned date would still mean full sites, especially during holiday times and weekends. IMHO, there would still be more people wanting to book than there are pitches available, 2 months away, so there would still be people who wouldn't get what they wanted. There are simply not enough pitches for the number of people wanting those (perceived?) honeypot pitches.
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Don't have booking work holidays now so a little unfair to comment?😉Holidays could be pencilled in once the diaries arrived but weren't approved until the new leave year started on 1 April then on first come first served basis. Only small team no one with school age children so not much of a bun fight 😂. Most of us trying to avoid school holidays.
I think the idea of 50 50 sounds good, maybe 3 months in advance rather than 2?
Personally I cannot see why it isn't a rolling 12 month booking system. Radical or what?? No IT tweaking of any description required. Also means don't have to person the telephone with extra bodies for a few days either 😉
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I am one who is against deposits. The main difficulty that some have in making bookings is weekend availability. Weekenders require to book two nights. If there were a £10 non refundable deposit it may deter speculative booking. For many I doubt it. If they decide not to use the booking then they lose £20 if they were to go it would probably cost another £30 in fees and £20 in fuel.
For me such a deposit would cost £1,200. I can afford it just before Christmas but prefer not too.
There would be the same problem in booking 2 months before bank and school holidays
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Maybe instead of deposits it's pay in full say 7 days before 😲😲. That of course would mean automatically generated emails and online payments. On second thoughts we are dealing with the club IT 😂😂
When I book my nz flight 11 months in advance it's pay on booking! Still at least it means I have a seat and hopefully plane and engines too 😉😉. Incidentally if I book with less notice it's the same!
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Although we've never had a problem with booking sites we want when we want, I personally dislike frenzy day and never book anything until January at the earliest. Even then, very few club sites are completely booked throughout the year. We booked Chatsworth for 4 nights this year, just avoided weekends. Like Bakers, I'd think a 12 month rolling problem more likely to solve any perceived problems and has the benefit of keeping things simple rather than holding back a certain percentage of pitches.
As for deposits, we know the club says that the situation regarding no shows and late cancellations has improved since dropping them, and in a way I can understand that - if you were the sort of member who was likely to cancel simply because of bad weather, I think you'd be inclined to leave it till the last possible moment before deciding, so pitches are left empty rather than being taken up through the late availability system (though I'd go for 5 days rather than the present 3.)
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I personally don't think booking day is the myth some people would like you to believe.We managed our booking OK when I was working , it was just a matter of having alternative sites /dates if you couldn't get your first choice , I really don't see what the fuss is about.
In the last couple of weeks I've made a number of CMC bookings with no problems , even booked a long weekend at Chatsworth ......there seems to be plenty of availability at ALL the sites ive recently booked .
In fact we are members of C&CC as well & have had more sites not available with them , so used CMC sites instead .
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+1👍
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We still work and can't normally confirm holidays until January, so booking the popular sites isn't usually possible. We just work around it, finding other sites or using CL'S. We are using a club site over AugBH only booked a while ago so it's still possible.
I'am ok with the booking system as it is on the whole. 0 -
as most people will want the times around school holidays all you are doing in shifting the booking frenzy to 2 months before July 22nd for example, and /or making it even more of a frenzy for those 50% of pitches available on December booking day.
Also people want assurances of booking their summer holiday. If they can't get that with the club they'll go elsewhere.Thomas Cooks don't let your book holidays like this, wonder why?
Deposits wouldn't make the problem go away, probably make it worse. As happened in the past.
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Would it work if every site allowed only 50% of their pitches to be booked at any time from the December booking date with the remaining 50% not being bookable until no more than 2 months before the planned visit date? Most people, I think, should be able to work around this for planned main holidays. This should accommodate those that must fully book their year in advance and those that cannot.
I am not sure about the at any time bit. Although most of our bookings are off peak and not heavily contested, we still like to get everything sorted out in December, or early January, if holidaying in the UK. If I was unable to do it with the CAMC I would use other providers. So it would just depend if they managed to sell the space I did not book within the final two months. I think if this was brought in, although at less popular sites 50% would seem a lot, it would not go evenly. Weekends would rapidly be booked beyond the 50% and as we book weeks, we would be looking elsewhere. Obviously if it only me they will not be worried, however if the numbers are large and bookings go down. 👎
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The alternative is a rolling booking system like the other club which includes deposits and minimum bookings, so no weekends are bookable on popular sites at certain times. This works well but the deposits can get quite hefty on a tour of several sites. So I can put up with the club's system and avoid the booking frenzy if possible. It doesn't help working people who don't get their holiday dates til the New Year, that would have been us before we retired.
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John
The most successful systems are those that are simple and easy to understand which I believe the current system is. If you want to change something the weight of the argument in favour of that change must be overwhelming and I am not convinced it is. Often proposed changes don't have the advantages that the proposer thinks they do. I don't know how your work holiday system works but you must have a rough idea. Why not book on spec and cancel or amend in January when your dates are confirmed. That would still leave plenty of time for cancelled pitches to be rebooked. I think I would also ask how many sites, bar a very few so called honey pot sites are fully booked by January?
David
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Simple it maybe David but it sure annoys the hell out of many members evident by the number of post that continually crop up on the subject. You are advocating book when its not known what is really wanted. That is the major complaint, to easy to book and to easy to cancel because there are no penalties worth worrying about.
I can live with the system because in the last couple of years I have done just what you advocate on the basis if you cannot beat them join them. I wonder to what extent the system is full with tentative bookings and members seeing no dates available go elsewhere?
The only sensible system with minimum of complications for the Club is a non refundable deposit sytem and let those who have to cancel claim on holiday insurance. The Club could even offer that insurance. Isn't that what most holiday companies do?
peedee
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I suspect that as many complain about the C&CC system as complain about CC. With the exception of the likes of Rowntree in York perhaps, I also suspect that any other sites booked up early will be for Easter. Surely that is to be expected with almost any popular site?
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The only sensible system with minimum of complications for the Club is a non refundable deposit sytem and let those who have to cancel claim on holiday insurance. The Club could even offer that insurance. Isn't that what most holiday companies do?
peedee
Even that would not be sure to alter anything, unless you are advocating that the deposit is lost whatever the circumstances. If the CAMC did that it would put them at odds with firms like Morris leisure. Although at peak times they charge up to £10 a night non returnable deposit, this is not lost as long as you give 48 hours notice. A few years ago when the OH ended up in hospital I had to cancel. The £100 deposit was deferred for 12 months and could be used at any of their sites. So if the CAMC introduced total loss deposits what would be my incentive to use them, as against those with policies like ML. We book and almost always take up over 100 site nights a year mainly off peak, do they really want to risk loosing those sorts of bookings.
The other point about holiday insurance, is that it will not cover a lot of things. Death yes, but very elderly mother taken into hospital, not so clear cut.
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I strongly suspect, despite the Club claiming to the contrary, that there are a good proportion of bookings made on frenzy day which are speculative.
'We'll get the booking in, just in case, we can always change our mind nearer to the time' This is especially true for Bank Holiday weekends and holiday periods such as Christmas and New Year
This attitude is unfair for those that 100% want to make future holiday plans and are committed to taking the bookings they place.
As I've posted on another thread, the number of nights I've booked for this year and next at sites requiring a deposit, be that C&CC or commercial sites, dramatically outweigh the nights I've booked with this club. As some may know, I enter sporting events up and down the UK, some are very popular so get booked up as soon as entries become available. At the same time I look to book a pitch at the local campsite.
Because of the booking system roughly £1300 of my cash is going to the other club and commercial sites this year, as opposed to around £50 going to the CAMC
For next year, I've already committed to spending approx £1200 to the C&CC which is likely to rise as further plans are made. I've no intention of getting involved in frenzy day to secure sites, if I book a CAMC site next year, it'll be purely on an ad hoc basis.
I hope the club read this
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Not been to Bath or Oxford for many years so we decided to have a week between the two in August.
Thankfully there are no CC sites close to either city so simple to book none CC sites with reasonable choice of dates.
PS. Nigel the club don't really care what you do and it's doubtful that anyone will deem to visit their own embarrassingly inadequate forum.
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No doubt about it EJB, I've never really complained in the past about the booking system, I just do what is best for me and as a result, the Club receive a very small proportion of the money I spend on site fees. Of course, it's not the same for everyone, there are those that prefer the non-commital nature of the current way of booking with this Club, it just doesn't work so well for me and therefore the majority of money I spend, goes to the club and sites that require deposits.
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I think from the clubs point of view they are not worried about cancellation of bookings at popular times, and or popular sites, as these will almost always be taken up. So no loss of revenue. What they cannot afford is to put off the large number of folk, like us, who holiday off peak. Introducing non returnable deposits could well do this. Even if you take up all your bookings, for some it would be a large outlay at a time of year they cannot afford it. So it is purely a commercial decision, as long as they sell the pitches they are not really bothered how.
Also unless you make it a total loss, I am not sure what affect, say £10 a night would have on weekenders at Chatsworth. Who could be paying almost £100 for a two night stay, plus of course fuel to get there.
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David, as I pointed out in my OP I don't have the problem of work's holiday dates anymore but there are other things in life that can dictate when things can or can't be done which then affects that date at which planning can be done with some certainty of not having to cancel. For various reasons many of us, I am sure, cannot book that far in advance. Caravanning was once a spontaneous affair but with sites booked speculatively those days are, regretfully, long since gone.
Knowing that once the initial 50% of the pitches had been booked one couldn't book until 2 months before the planned trip is, to me, simple enough. I would just stick it in my diary to book at a later date. What is so difficult to understand about that?
Booking on spec and then cancelling is exactly what causes the problem for many members. Doing so, in my mind, is a selfish attitude if bookings are made with cancelling nearer the date already in mind.
As you rightly state," If you want to change something the weight of the argument in favour of that change must be overwhelming and I am not convinced it is. Often proposed changes don't have the advantages that the proposer thinks they do." for this read changes to CC name and logo.
Before anyone suggests it, we do now use CLs far more than main sites mainly because a full week can usually be booked and not just Monday to Friday.
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You make a valid point and I completely understand your reasoning.
So... introduce a deposit requirement just for Bank Holiday weekends and school holiday peak time periods?
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many complaints arise on this subject and views/suggestions are posted/debated, trying to 'resolve the situation' (deposits, rolling calendars etc, etc) of speculative bookings made on frenzy day, where many feel they have a raw deal.
this is closing the stable door after the horse has bolted.
the real issue (and one that comes up on CT time and time again) is that the date/time the Club selects for its Booking Openings is unfair to many, especially those who work 'normal hours'.....and, incredibly, there are still many who do this.
these are the folk that have to attempt to agree/arrange holidays at work, yet have no chance to actually book these with CC as the popular weeks/weekends at the popular sites will have been booked (speculatively or not....) while they are at work.
while i agree that which ever day CC chooses wont satisfy everyone, it shouldnt be beyond its capability to have a rotating release day, incorporating weekends to give as much opportunity to ALL members, irrespective of their working status or their hours.
a fixed mid week morning 'opening' suits its core membership just fine for booking that (10 years in a row now, we never have a problem getting in) peak week at Chatsworth, Baltic Wharf or York.
with the club attempting to encourage more (working) families to join the club, this is a particular area where a small admin change could show that the club actually understands a bit about the lives of those they seek to become 'the next generation.....'
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yes completely agree with you. And of course if you have paid a deposit and not taking up your booking what incentive have you (or one) to let anyone know? At least at present someone else will get that booking.
Also is there really a problem? How many sites are actually booked up on booking day? I don't have the club's statistic on this but they show that apart from one, two, perhaps three sites there is plenty of pitches left. And these sites will book up no matter what system is in place. I seem to remember that the club did look at this speculative booking idea and found that it didn't really happen as only very few people actually did this. (statement in club magazine round about Christmas last year?)
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again I've paid my 10 pounds deposit for a weekend costing £100+ petrol, decide to cancel, what incentive have I to let the club/site know?
The present system with it's sanctions works better than deposits ever did as shown by the fact when deposits were removed the number of no shows went down.
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