Loosing More CLs, why?

Like TDA and NTH, I also lost in excess of Thirty (30) reviews due to the incompetence of the IT dept, as a consequence, I no longer post reviews on this forum as I don't appreciate the flippant attitude displayed by the club towards their CL network.

Instead, I post reviews elsewhere, where my opinions are appreciated.

David - Not unreasonable at all but a positive forward thinking approach.  

Yes I email to say thank you.

A very interesting thread. I am always interested in a thread that discusses the lack of, or closures, of CLs. Some very interesting comments from members showing the complete diversity of the membership and how they view the great CL network which has been a mainstay of the caravan world for as long as caravans have been invented- my sincere thanks to all those hard working CL owners who have contributed to this wonderful hobby of ours over the years - I have certainly benefited- so why are CLs closing in numbers which is a little disturbing??

CLs have always closed and opened and will continue to do so and for many different reasons, but I wonder how much the modern worlds view of 'money' is affecting their presence. A CL owner who wants to open an impressive site these days is looking at a great deal of investment . Hard standings, EHUs and water to each pitch, showers toilets etc would be a pretty penny. Now, ever since I hitched up for the first time and headed nervously for the east coast, I have understood that the CL is not about making huge sums of dosh!! It was to be regarded as a great privilege to be able to go to these sites at a very reasonable cost and as long as the CL owner didn't lose money, that was to be regarded as a success. I had four kids so I am ever thankful to the CL network for giving me affordable holidays which I have to say were fabulous, but, as I've always said, it's how you approach it, not what's available! Something has changed though- even over the last 25yrs. The expectations of caravanners, as has been pointed out,  has increased where EHU is now regarded as the absolute basic requirement - and as caravan manufacturers make ever more electricity hungry vans I can well understand that viewpoint - and if a shower block and toilets can be found even better- but one has to pay for these facilities and that's where the rub comes. Going back to the CL owner opening an impressive CL, he will want to recoup that cost as soon as possible but do CL users really want to pay the price that is wanted and possibly needed? I would argue that they would have a reluctance to. The price worked out after all the expense may well be approaching a commercial or even, God forbid, club site prices!! A case in point - A site that was new in the last sites book was advertising at £26 a night- this latest book I see it's in at £15 - is this because they couldn't get anyone to stay there? I would think so. I for one would not even have considered it but then I wouldn't consider it at £15 the reason for which I will explain later.

So we have an impasse. The CL owner wants to make money and wants to charge top dollar but unless he offers something special for that folks will go elsewhere and if he does offer something special with Hard Standings fully serviced pitches with showers toilets and wifi perhaps and a plethora of other facilities, he may well price himself out of the CL market. So he can either settle for making a 'bit' of money or not bother- and this may well be one of the reasons for closures or worse, very few new CLs coming on stream.

However, take the guy who has a spare bit of land who wants to do something with it , make a bit of dosh, but doesn't want any massive expense. It's in a nice area with some views. He certainly doesn't want to start digging it up to put cables in it and water pipes but he does want to use it for something and a CL is an almost perfect solution. Better £2 -3 grand a year and the land being used rather than it gathering weeds! He can do this at relatively little cost. This is where modern technology comes in. All he needs to supply is access to a waste system and a tap. ' A tap in a muddy field' is I believe how one member described it and how that was no longer acceptable. Well, to me it's the only thing that is acceptable! I don't need to be pampered by the CL owner, all I need is a pitch, water and waste disposal as I have bought everything else with me including electricity! My Solar Panel supples all the electricity I need and through my inverter I can use my microwave, toaster, blender and my 240v vacuum. My self fill Safefill cylinder will supply all the gas I need to drive the fridge and supply hot water and heating and at 25% of Calor cylinder gas! - I have a shower and a toilet on board which I have already paid for so why would I want to use someone else's? I am as comfortable as I ever was with an orange cable stuck in the side of my van and yes, I've been there- EHU and a very expensive Calor cylinder or two in the front locker because that was how it was - the status quo- well no longer. Having spoken to many CL owners over the past 3 yrs - since I decided I didn't want to be held captive by someone else's facilities- I detect a small but very noticeable change in the wind where it's the 'tap in the middle of a muddy field' sites that are in a far better position for making money than the more sophisticated sites. (As someone very correctly pointed out- there are only 5 vans allowed at any one time) The fees for these gems are always very reasonable being between £4 and £10 a night . So, although the reasons for less CLs are many and complicated, it's a certainty that as things develop on the technology side,and caravanners can, if they make the effort, become more and more self sufficient, EHU sites will become less favoured. Of course there will always be the folks who refuse to look any further than their hitchlock and will always be able and willing to pay top dollar for top sites and that is how it's always been but the little guy who has less resources and even the wealthier guy who has plenty, and could afford the 'not a blade of grass out of place' sites but, who has taken the trouble to research what is out there will always be happy to support the more basic CLs. He is saving oodles and the CL owner is making a few bob- a win win and a CL that will remain open! And as far as a review is concerned, I have found some total gems since being non EHU. One of which is booked up for 2 years in advance- how many EHU sites can equal that?? 

Interesting post Merve.   I personally choose a pitch provider according to where I wish to visit at that moment in time when touring.  In this country I can manage with a few days of basic facilities.  I guess to stay on sites in the UK with only a tap & waste disposal facilities leisure vehicle owners themselves have to make the monetary investment rather than the CL owner if they wish to stay any length of time. 

I fully agree with you CY.  I have on another thread challenged the club leadership to demonstrate that the values are anything more than empty spin.  The response so far has been tumble weed, not supprise  there.  

Lets introduce another marketing buzz phrase.  Thought leadership.  That's the process by which the club uses its influence and reputation to shape people's perception of what is possible.  Unfortunetely it takes both thought and leadership, so I expect more tumble weed. 

Yawn, sorry Merve your constant going on about self sufficiency is starting to bore.  I understand you only want a tap in a muddy field and a drain cover to lift off to dump black waste and that is fine.  Others may want more, not necessarily showers or toilets but for a MH maybe a hard standing, some want EHU (maybe most).  Youn rightly say your van has everything in it and so does everyone elses and a lot prefer to use EHU rather than gas to power things and do not want an inverter etc. fitted.

For us and many others the main thing is the area we are visiting, we then look for a site from there, we look at value for the site of what its offering not just choose the cheapest because I have SP & Gaslow.  We have been on a CL with EHU but chose to camp on the opposite side of the field in the sun so paid for EHU but did not use it.  We do not consider this paying top dollar but the going rate for a service that we are happy to pay.

Younger people are used to more facilities so maybe the CL's are trying to cater to them?  But they do not have to have showers etc.  We have been to many sites with a toilet but not so many with showers.

As for a CL owner getting 3k a year from a tap only I find that hard to believe, even at £10 a night with 300 nights its only 3k less the expenses of water, grass cutting, insurance, bookings etc.

I'm an avid fan of CLs.

As far as I can see, the CAMC is a commercially driven business, not a 'Club' so they probably see little marketing sense in tempting people away from their own money-making sites.

I'd be interested to know if the Club receives any income from CLs (as opposed to the Club's own sites).

Do CL owners have to pay a fee to be listed? If they do, the support they get on the website is nothing less than disgraceful.

Are CL owners allowed to operate independently? I.e. promote their site (up to 5 units) and take bookings from non members? They should be, as it seems very one-sided to be restricted by an agreement that provides little or nothing in return. If they are not allowed to promote themselves outside the CAMC I foresee more and more closing down.

I guess we can put it down to one sentence in the end- Use it or Lose it! 

We as CL Owners cannot accept anyone other than Club members ( There are other organisations that register CL/CS type 5 van sites that accept non members of any type ) so therefore our only real point of advertising is the Club magazine which as I pointed out in an earlier thread may well be once in 50 to 80 years !.  New CL's also have to be Club members as well, we are in our own right in order to use our caravan.   As we are in Scotland then we don't have the numbers of vanners around us as with some of the major towns / cities in England and it would be great to have a larger audience we could attract out of season.

David    www.perthshirecl.co.uk