Are CLs really members only
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Roll out of the checking facility started late in 2014.
Alan
Write your comments here...so my post, ( which was removed) has more than a grain of truth it is going on, and that is what the OP wanted to know
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Think you got it right hooker, shame it got Deleted User really.....
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Roll out of the checking facility started late in 2014.
Alan
Thanks, so it is more than likely comments on CT prompted the Club into doing something.
peedee
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What the membership checking facility has shown me is just how few non members attempt to book onto my CLs and I assume the same goes for other CLs. The idea put forward on this thread that there was no need to become a member as CL owners are only interested in the cash and nobody checks is simply untrue.
Alan
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To use the checking facility you simply have to text the membership number and you get the response within about 5 seconds. I admit that not all owners will use it but its minimal hassle and certainly no need to change your clothing!
Write your comments here So the member who forgot is card is turned away and the site owner says no to some cash in hand, in an ideal world this would happen but we do not live in an ideal world...
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What the membership checking facility has shown me is just how few non members attempt to book onto my CLs and I assume the same goes for other CLs. The idea put forward on this thread that there was no need to become a member as CL owners are only interested
in the cash and nobody checks is simply untrue.Alan
I agree with you Alan. I always ask for a memb. no. when anyone books and have never had an "expired or non member " response to any of our texts to CC headquarters. I have used it since day one but find that many e-mails I get from UK Campsites are from
non members. Usually when members e-mail they include their memb. no. in their initial enquiry. I had a phone call from a C&CC member last week asking if they could come and stay with us are there are no C&CC cs sites open in our area in winter. My response
was" Sorry, no, we only take CC members ". "Oh could we not make an exception for them? " she asked. No, I wasn't going to risk our Certificate for them or anyone else. I would rather lose one nights fee than lose our CL but obviously others aren't bothered
! Kellysmum0 -
Unfortunately as I pointed out to the CC,the new checking system does not determine if the person in possession of the card is a member, only that the membership card and number is current.To do so will involve photo cards which will mean more expense due
to a minority of people trying to fiddle the system as usual.0 -
I always ask for a membership number and contact phone when I take a booking. I do not do texts. our phone signal is very poor from my supplier.I have never asked to see a membership card on the arrival of a visitor as it tells me nothing. I also never ask
for an address, And I agree with Valcon 100%0 -
Unfortunately as I pointed out to the CC,the new checking system does not determine if the person in possession of the card is a member, only that the membership card and number is current.To do so will involve photo cards which will mean more expense due
to a minority of people trying to fiddle the system as usual.Write your comments here...I don't think we have ever had anyone stay that I suspected wasn't a CC member. I did have a booking from someone last year which I was a bit dubious about but they didn't turn up for the fortnight they booked anyway so I didn't
find out if they were actually the member or not. I did suggest to the CC when they brought in the new text service that it was OK to text "Current member" but it might be a good idea to change it to the expiry date as although a member is current today they
might not be by September when the booking is for. Kellysmum0 -
I may be wrong but I got the impression that once a site is certified (and it is only certain organisations such as the CC who can certify) then it can in general allow anyone it wishes onto the site. However I expect as a matter of contract with the CC
as certifying authority it is not permitted to allow non members or more than 5 units to use the site. In other words allowing non members may not be unlawful but may be a breach of its contract with the CC.0 -
I think that the cl/cs networks run by both major clubs can only be used by members of the clubs as that is part of the exemption certificates issued to the clubs
I don't think that is right I think as a matter of law once the exemption certificate is issued (and there are various organisations authorised to issue exeption certificates) the site can be freely used however I imagine that clubs control
use to members only contractually and theree is a measure of dependency on the part of the site owner on the club.0 -
I think that the cl/cs networks run by both major clubs can only be used by members of the clubs as that is part of the exemption certificates issued to the clubs
I don't think that is right I think as a matter of law once the exemption certificate is issued (and there are various organisations authorised to issue exeption certificates) the site can be freely used however I imagine that clubs control
use to members only contractually and theree is a measure of dependency on the part of the site owner on the club.Once an excemption is granted it is then up to the excempted organisation to decide whether to allow non-members. The CC state that they are members only, that is their rules and in my opinion rightly so.
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Natural England is the only organisation that can issue exemption certificates to Clubs/Organisations for recreational camping and they must be able to supply proof that their MEMBERS have a code of conduct that applys to their use of the sites
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BlueVanMan got it right on the previous page. This Club's way of keeping membership up is to say to site owners we will get you a certificate if you agree to keep non members out. Site owners who let non members
in are breaking their agreement with the Club but are not breaking any national law.0 -
I think that the cl/cs networks run by both major clubs can only be used by members of the clubs as that is part of the exemption certificates issued to the clubs
I don't think that is right I think as a matter of law once the exemption certificate is issued (and there are various organisations authorised to issue exeption certificates) the site can be freely used however I imagine that clubs control
use to members only contractually and theree is a measure of dependency on the part of the site owner on the club.Write your comments here...So can the CC revoke the certificate if they allow non members, and are they breaking any law or just CC rules.
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Yes the CC could revoke the certificate if a CL allowed non-members and no they are probably not breaking any law but are certainly breaking club rules.
Alan
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Yes the CC could revoke the certificate if a CL allowed non-members and no they are probably not breaking any law but are certainly breaking club rules.
Alan
...But thats not in the ethos of the way certificates are issued to the clubs ,as it specifically states on the Gov.Natural England site that who ever it is issued to must show proof of Members code of conduct
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Natural England is the only organisation that can issue exemption certificates to Clubs/Organisations for recreational camping and they must be able to supply proof that their MEMBERS have a code of conduct that applys to their use of the sites
Write your comments here...Whilst I don't have the exact information at my fingertips there must be other bodies in the United Kingdom regulating the ability of organisations to grant CL status. I say that in particular because Natural England have no presence
or jurisdiction in Scotland which is a separate country with its own legal system and parliament albeit a constituent country within the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.0 -
..but arent we 'discussing' the exemption certificates that the club(s) issue to CL/CS sites, which 'exempt' then from having to apply for planning permission to run a campsite.....provided that... 5 vans etc, etc.....and whether those organisations can
insist on a members only policy?natural england allows certain organisations to issue these 'exemptions' on their behalf....The CC and C&CC being two such organisations....along with MotorCaravannersClub etc
i am a member of all three of these and they all have members' codes of conduct, and all three only allow their members onto their sites....
so JVB, are you saying that the CC, who specifies in its issuing that only members of the CC can use 'exempted' sites, is going against the ethos of natural england, which i guess is more along the lines of 'access to all'....or whatever the wording is..or
that some clubs who have this 'right' dont have a code of conduct?in which case, wouldnt NE have found this during due diligence?
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..but arent we 'discussing' the exemption certificates that the club(s) issue to CL/CS sites, which 'exempt' then from having to apply for planning permission to run a campsite.....provided that... 5 vans etc, etc.....and whether those organisations can
insist on a members only policy?natural england allows certain organisations to issue these 'exemptions' on their behalf....The CC and C&CC being two such organisations....along with MotorCaravannersClub etc
i am a member of all three of these and they all have members' codes of conduct, and all three only allow their members onto their sites....
so JVB, are you saying that the CC, who specifies in its issuing that only members of the CC can use 'exempted' sites, is going against the ethos of natural england, which i guess is more along the lines of 'access to all'....or whatever the wording is..or
that some clubs who have this 'right' dont have a code of conduct?in which case, wouldnt NE have found this during due diligence?
Write your comments here...I think as usual you have come to your own conclusion without reading the said document that,clearly states that they are issued to organisations that have a code of conduct for their Members !!
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..but arent we 'discussing' the exemption certificates that the club(s) issue to CL/CS sites, which 'exempt' then from having to apply for planning permission to run a campsite.....provided that... 5 vans etc, etc.....and whether those organisations can
insist on a members only policy?natural england allows certain organisations to issue these 'exemptions' on their behalf....The CC and C&CC being two such organisations....along with MotorCaravannersClub etc
i am a member of all three of these and they all have members' codes of conduct, and all three only allow their members onto their sites....
so JVB, are you saying that the CC, who specifies in its issuing that only members of the CC can use 'exempted' sites, is going against the ethos of natural england, which i guess is more along the lines of 'access to all'....or whatever the wording is..or
that some clubs who have this 'right' dont have a code of conduct?in which case, wouldnt NE have found this during due diligence?
Write your comments here...I think as usual you have come to your own conclusion without reading the said document that,clearly states that they are issued to organisations that have a code of conduct for their Members !!
sorry JVB, dont want to get into semantics but i clearly said that the three organisations that i know of that issue these DO have members, DO have codes of conduct and DO only allow those members onto the sites.
while NE may well have a policy of only allowing organisations with a 'code of conduct for members', my question (and those of others earlier in the thread) remains....does NE insist that only members of these clubs be allowed or can CL type sites be used
without being a member of one of the issuing organisations....?...or is this left to the issuing organisation?the thread was about this issue, not whether NE does/not issue certification to those organosations who dont have a code of conduct.
they are two different issues....you brought up the 'code of conduct' issue without clarifying if it was this that contained any proviso regrading the members only policy.
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The matter is regulated in England by Schedule 5 Paragraph 4 of The Caravan Sites and Commercial Development Act 1960 which allows exempt organisations (such as the CC) to grant exemptions to the need to have full Planning permission etc. The criteria in
the Act to become an exempt organisation seems modest and the matter is for "the Minister" to determine. There is absolutely no requirement in the Act for the site to be members only and indeed the gov website giving guidance states that non members
can use the site if the owner
and the licensor agree. So clearly the mechanism for stopping non members is CC policy ie. presumably CL owners not towing the party line run the risk of losing their exemption even though they have not broken the law . It would seem that the ethos in
the original Act of relative freedom is not reflected by the "modern" CC and that over time (55 years) a considerable devolution of power from ministerial level has occurred. It is not difficult to see the commercial and protectionist reasons why that is the
case and it is others to decide whether from the point of view of members it is good or bad.0 -
So in the spirit of good will, is not a good idea that so long as you belong to ..any of the three mentioned you will be allowed entry on to a cc/cs ect
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BVM, thank you....a courteous and informative reply
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The regulations that BVM refers to is for normal sites with supervision (wardens) the regulatios covering cl/cs as ammended in 1960 only allows members of the club who applys to use them,some like the cc and c&cc have permanent cetificates others like owners clubs normally have to re apply every two years i think, and the same regs apply uk wide via each govenment
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