Are CLs really members only
Comments
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The regulations that BVM refers to is for normal sites with supervision (wardens) the regulatios covering cl/cs as ammended in 1960 only allows members of the club who applys to use them,some like the cc and c&cc have permanent cetificates others like owners
clubs normally have to re apply every two years i think, and the same regs apply uk wide via each govenmentApologies I inadvertantly referred to paragraph 4 as the relevant paragraph instead of paragraph 5. However the substance of what I was saying was still correct because I actually described the effect of paragraph 5. For the sake of completeness I will
attach the complete reference.Before doing that and to be clear I also agree with you that primary legislation is the same for both Scotland & England. However I did not agree with your proposition that "Natural England" were the sole authority. In fact having researched the
function which they perform is in Scotland not delegated but instead performed directly by the government.
Section 2 of the act reads :-"
Exemptions from licensing requirements.
No site licence shall be required for the use of land as a caravan site in any of the circumstances specified in the First Schedule to this Act and that Schedule shall have effect accordingly.
The Schedule refers to :-
FIRST SCHEDULE
Cases where a Caravan Site Licence is not required
Paragraph 5 of the schedule is the relevant one and reads :-
5(1)Subject
to the provisions of paragraph 13 of this Schedule, a site licence shall not be required for the use as a caravan site of land as respects which there is in force a certificate issued under this paragraph by an exempted organisation if not more than five caravans
are at the time stationed for the purposes of human habitation on the land to which the certificate relates.(2)For the purposes of this paragraph an exempted organisation may issue as respects any
land a certificate stating that the land has been approved by the exempted organisation for use by its members for the purposes of recreation.(3)The certificate shall be issued to the occupier of the land to which it relates, and
the organisation shall send particulars to the Minister of all certificates issued by the organisation under this paragraph.(4)A certificate issued by an exempted organisation under this paragraph shall specify
the date on which it is to come into force and the period for which it is to continue in force, being a period not exceeding one year.0 -
The regulations that BVM refers to is for normal sites with supervision (wardens) the regulatios covering cl/cs as ammended in 1960 only allows members of the club who applys to use them,some like the cc and c&cc have permanent cetificates others like owners
clubs normally have to re apply every two years i think, and the same regs apply uk wide via each govenmentApologies I inadvertantly referred to paragraph 4 as the relevant paragraph instead of paragraph 5. However the substance of what I was saying was still correct because I actually described the effect of paragraph 5. For the sake of completeness I will
attach the complete reference.Before doing that and to be clear I also agree with you that primary legislation is the same for both Scotland & England. However I did not agree with your proposition that "Natural England" were the sole authority. In fact having researched the
function which they perform is in Scotland not delegated but instead performed directly by the government.
Section 2 of the act reads :-"
Exemptions from licensing requirements.
No site licence shall be required for the use of land as a caravan site in any of the circumstances specified in the First Schedule to this Act and that Schedule shall have effect accordingly.
The Schedule refers to :-
FIRST SCHEDULE
Cases where a Caravan Site Licence is not required
Paragraph 5 of the schedule is the relevant one and reads :-
5(1)Subject
to the provisions of paragraph 13 of this Schedule, a site licence shall not be required for the use as a caravan site of land as respects which there is in force a certificate issued under this paragraph by an exempted organisation if not more than five caravans
are at the time stationed for the purposes of human habitation on the land to which the certificate relates.(2)For the purposes of this paragraph an exempted organisation may issue
as respects any land a certificate stating that the land has been approved by the exempted organisation for use by its members for the purposes of recreation.(3)The certificate shall be issued to the occupier of the land to which
it relates, and the organisation shall send particulars to the Minister of all certificates issued by the organisation under this paragraph.(4)A certificate issued by an exempted organisation under this paragraph
shall specify the date on which it is to come into force and the period for which it is to continue in force, being a period not exceeding one year....I think you now agree that 5 van sites from what ever organisation is for members of that organisation only as the original OP asked,the c&cc issue for two years according to their website,its the only one i have looked a,,and when i mentioned The Gov
website natural england was first up but did not say that it was the only site as all uk govenments site aply the same regs0 -
The Motor Caravanners Club issues "exemption certificates" to land owners in the same way as the Caravan Club, and under the same legislation. But whereas the Caravan Club makes the stipulation that the CL is to be used by members only, the Motor Caravanners
Club does not, and is happy for them to be used by anyone. Similarly Practical Caravan magazine fosters the development of the Nightstop scheme - again with no stipulation of Members Only.0 -
The Motor Caravanners Club issues "exemption certificates" to land owners in the same way as the Caravan Club, and under the same legislation. But whereas the Caravan Club makes the stipulation that the CL is to be used by members only, the Motor Caravanners
Club does not, and is happy for them to be used by anyone. Similarly Practical Caravan magazine fosters the development of the Nightstop scheme - again with no stipulation of Members Only....Its not the "clubs " who stipulate who uses "cls" but the gov dep who issues the certificate to each "club"
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The Club, or other organisation issuing the exemption certificate, chooses. The Nightstop scheme has no members.
I said Practical Caravan magazine earlier but it's actually Practical Motorhome magazine which fosters that scheme. Sorry for that error. But they too have no members.
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The Club, or other organisation issuing the exemption certificate, chooses. The Nightstop scheme has no members.
...That is not correct according to the Gov website as the "club" has to prove it has a code of conduct for its Members before it can issue exemption certificates so that would in itself ban non members using them
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The Motor Caravanners Club issues the exemption certificate for that Nightstop scheme. They openly say on their website that their CLs are open to all.
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The Motor Caravanners Club issues the exemption certificate for that Nightstop scheme. They openly say on their website that their CLs are open to all.
Thank you for highlighting this ET, I was going to correct BB but you have already done so. I think BVM has hit the nail on the head, it is down to the Clubs to make the final decicison, nothing to do with the 1960 act.
I note the MCC network is growing fast.
peede
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Sorry to keep repeating it, but the Gov website says clubs must prove they have a code of conduct for their Members before they can use the 5 van sites that the said club can issue an excemption certificate, for its Members to use,no mention of non members
being allowed as they would not be covered by any clubs code of conduct0 -
Sorry to keep repeating it, but the Gov website says clubs must prove they have a code of conduct for their Members before they can use the 5 van sites that the said club can issue an excemption certificate, for its Members to use,no mention of non members
being allowed as they would not be covered by any clubs code of conductWrite your comments here...
I am sorry to repeat myself as well but if you are talking about a paragraph 5 exemption the website wording is as follows (italics mine):-
Approved sites exemption
This is known as a paragraph 5 exemption.
With this exemption, your organisation can select sites for its members to stay on, by issuing certificates to the landowner or occupier. These certificates are valid for up to 1 year.
Non-members are allowed to stay on the site if your club and the landowner agree to it.
You’ll need to:
- set a maximum limit of 5 caravans at a time for each site
- have a system for consulting neighbours and the local licensing authority (Natural England, or the Scottish or Welsh governments) before issuing a certificate
- have a system for inspecting the sites and dealing with complaints from the public
- send copies of the certificates you issue to Natural England, or the Scottish or Welsh governments (depending on where your club is based
I can't see any reference to a Code of Conduct
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The Motor Caravanners Club issues the exemption certificate for that Nightstop scheme. They openly say on their website that their CLs are open to all.
Thank you for highlighting this ET, I was going to correct BB but you have already done so. I think BVM has hit the nail on the head, it is down to the Clubs to make the final decicison, nothing to do with the 1960 act.
I note the MCC network is growing fast.
peede
thanks for that guys....as i had to become a member to take advantage of all the other MCC benefits (of which i just saw the CL network as a further benefit) i assumed ALL the benefits were members only.....so thanks.
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How is it then that on the 5Van web site there are CL type sites which are affiliated to neither the CC or the CC&C?
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nellie, its because there are other organisations (like MCC and Practical Motorhome) that run 'exempted' sites....theyve been given this roght by Natural England in the same way as CC and CCC.
MCC has its own network of CLs as does the PM which has the Nightstop network.
the issue is whether these 'clubs' (that are allowed to 'exempt' sites) have to insist on a members only policy.....it would seem not.
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People have said on here that anyone can use MCC CL sites but when I tried to look for details of their sites last summer I couldn't access them without logging in with a membership number. Has anyone else who isn't a member of the MCC been able to access
their sites list ? Kellysmum0 -
People have said on here that anyone can use MCC CL sites but when I tried to look for details of their sites last summer I couldn't access them without logging in with a membership number. Has anyone else who isn't a member of the MCC been able to access
their sites list ? KellysmumIs this what you are looking for-
http://dev.motorcaravanners.eu/index.php/club-cl-sites/71-mcc-cls-list
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Sorry to keep repeating it, but the Gov website says clubs must prove they have a code of conduct for their Members before they can use the 5 van sites that the said club can issue an excemption certificate, for its Members to use,no mention of non members
being allowed as they would not be covered by any clubs code of conductWrite your comments here...
I am sorry to repeat myself as well but if you are talking about a paragraph 5 exemption the website wording is as follows (italics mine):-
Approved sites exemption
This is known as a paragraph 5 exemption.
With this exemption, your organisation can select sites for its members to stay on, by issuing certificates to the landowner or occupier. These certificates are valid for up to 1 year.
Non-members are allowed to stay on the site if your club and the landowner agree to it.
You’ll need to:
- set a maximum limit of 5 caravans at a time for each site
- have a system for consulting neighbours and the local licensing authority (Natural England, or the Scottish or Welsh governments) before issuing a certificate
- have a system for inspecting the sites and dealing with complaints from the public
- send copies of the certificates you issue to Natural England, or the Scottish or Welsh governments (depending on where your club is based
I can't see any reference to a Code of Conduct...Sorry missed that sentance about non members,,but it does contradict what it says on the first page of the Gov website when it speaks about eligibility for exemption
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nellie, its because there are other organisations (like MCC and Practical Motorhome) that run 'exempted' sites....theyve been given this roght by Natural England in the same way as CC and CCC.
MCC has its own network of CLs as does the PM which has the Nightstop network.
the issue is whether these 'clubs' (that are allowed to 'exempt' sites) have to insist on a members only policy.....it would seem not.
BB, the one that immediately comes to mind is just a small private site and I'm sure that it isn't a member of either of those two clubs either. It used to to be a CL but is now shown as an independant site.
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nellie, its because there are other organisations (like MCC and Practical Motorhome) that run 'exempted' sites....theyve been given this roght by Natural England in the same way as CC and CCC.
MCC has its own network of CLs as does the PM which has the Nightstop network.
the issue is whether these 'clubs' (that are allowed to 'exempt' sites) have to insist on a members only policy.....it would seem not.
BB, the one that immediately comes to mind is just a small private site and I'm sure that it isn't a member of either of those two clubs either. It used to to be a CL but is now shown as an independant site.
...If it used to be a cl and now gone private site it will /should have had to get planning permission from the local authority ,although i understand its easier to "convert" rather than to get permission from scratch
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Easiest way to expand even here in Nat Park is to start CL.Allow overbooking and use the extra units as a reason to get full planning for more units, As others have said there are other organisations out there with exeptions. Farming Unions are looking at
it. With the CC insisting on putting their heads in the sand re Max 5 they are likely to be left behind. What real support do the present CLs get from the club except the booklet0 -
Easiest way to expand even here in Nat Park is to start CL.Allow overbooking and use the extra units as a reason to get full planning for more units, As others have said there are other organisations out there with exeptions. Farming Unions are looking at it. With the CC insisting on putting their heads in the sand re Max 5 they are likely to be left behind. What real support do the present CLs get from the club except the booklet
...Unless there is a change in all the UK govenments regulations then the five van max excemption certificate issued to any "club"will not alter
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About 30 years ago we regularly used a 5 van site which was an independent site. The owner didn't want to restrict his visitors to CC or C&CC members so he applied for permission from the local authority. It was always busy but when he decided to downsize
the new owners of the house decided not to carry on the site. Pity really as it was in a good spot and had a toilet and shower (pre EHU days ) Kellysmum0 -
About 30 years ago we regularly used a 5 van site which was an independent site. The owner didn't want to restrict his visitors to CC or C&CC members so he applied for permission from the local authority. It was always busy but when he decided to downsize
the new owners of the house decided not to carry on the site. Pity really as it was in a good spot and had a toilet and shower (pre EHU days ) Kellysmum...So it was a 5 van commercial site,was there room for more than the 5 vans?
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Regulations are one thing reality is another. Councils dont have the manpower or stomach to ensure Cls have 5 vans,CS 5 vans & 10 tents etc. These things creep in. Others enter the market and the old fashioned ones get left behind. Dont think I am for wholesale
changes in numbers but it should depend on site size. A proper debate is needed as the regulations are over 50 years old.T ime changes.0
