So who tows with a 100% match?
We have bought our 1st caravan last month and had a very quick, steep and expensive learning curve regarding towing law and sensibility. The outcome of which is that we have a Swift Coastline 545 with a MTPLM of 1500kg and a 2004 Honda CRV 2.0 VTEC with
a limit of 1500kg, so 100%. Unfortunately (and this was one of the learns we had AFTER the purchase), the CRV of this year has a nose weight limit of 60kg.
So, I appreciate that it's not a perfect match by any means and will be changing the tow vehicle at some point in the future but realistically we will be with this outfit for at least a year and most probably 2.
I was wondering how many of you have a match of 100% and what your experiences are? The difficulty that I have is that I have no reference point as i've never towed before. I can obviously 'feel' the van on the back and was surprised
by how much of an effect it has on the car but then I would imagine that this is the same (to a more or lesser extend) for all of us towing a big brick behind us. We have only taken it out once so far for a 100 mile round trip and the only bit I felt a little
uneasy was out on the exposed motorway as it was a breezy day and certain parts had a 90 degree crosswind. It wasn't white knuckle though and I slowed accordingly and at no point felt anywhere close to being 'out of control'.
For reference. I weighed the nose weight when I returned and it was 80kg. Advice suggests the heavier the better which I understand in principle but I know legally I should stay within 60kg. I've since managed to reach the 60kg by moving one of the gas bottles
inside of the van (over the axle) and I have to say that the car felt more stable at the rear at this weight albeit it was only a 10 mile journey to the dealership.
I haven't got anything heavy at the back of the van and everything is loaded around the axle. I would estimate that the actual weight of the van is less than 1400kg (MIRO 1290kg) and the car would typically be about 1650 - 1700kg.
Do any of you share similar experiences?
Thanks
Mike
Comments
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The 100% (85%) 'rule' is based on the all up weights of the car and caravan....not the towing limit of the car.
Obviously all 'limits' must be adhered to!
I towed at around 100% for very many years before the CC decided to concoct a 'rule'.........albeit not a bad rule!
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Much depends on how well your outfit is matched and you will see many Dutch caravans being towed across Europe with quite small cars. The Club's 85% "rule" is guidance only but is sensible and if you go much above this it can feel like the tail wagging the
dog which is clearly unsatisfactory and potentially dangerous.Concerning the noseweight, this is imposed by the car manufacturer and if you are exceeding this significantly then you are overloading the towbar and rear of the vehicle. 60kg is quite low for a caravan of the size you are towing but it seems that by moving
the weight inside you may have achieved a good outcome.Overall the towcar is not quite adequate for your caravan but if you stay within the nose weight and the 100% car/van it is at least "legal".
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I think you need to check your V5C car document for the official figure of your cars towing limit, section 4 Vehicle details. If you are over the top on this figure, you are possibly breaking the law. Your Motor Insurance could be NIL & Void if you had an
accident. This happened to a friend of mine and he lost out. Yours is s case of the dog wagging the tail big time!!!0 -
On another issue ref just started towing. It has benn discussed in this forum that you notify your car insurance company that you have modified the car by having a Tow-bar fitted, some company accept this as OK, others make a charge for adding a modification
to the car. My previous comment should have read the tail wagging the dog.0 -
Thanks for your responses everyone.
BillandMargaret : I believe that the only thing which ultimately dictates the towing limit of the vehicle is the VIN plated on the car. It's worked out by deducting the MAM of the vehicle from the Gross Train Weight. I know that the V5 can be misleading
and found out the very hard way as originally we bought a Ford Focus diesel to tow, specifically because the V5 stated a towing limit of 1500kg but the plated VIN stated 1430kg and therefore illegal for me! Thankfully, the dealer was sypathetic
and cancelled the sale for me and helped me find an alternative tow vehicle (the CRV)
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The towing limit is not a legal limit. Only the respective axle loads, the gross vehicle weight and the gross train weight are.
There is nothing wrong with the logic that the towing limit can be greater than the difference between gross train weight and gross vehicle weight. It just means that one cannot make full use of both towing limit and at the same time gross vehicle weight without exceeding the gross train weight. In a case like that it has to be one or the other.
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I towed at 100% for a number of years but only realied how much easier it is at a lower % when I had a combination at 72%. My concerns were always about stability when overtaking downhill, overtaking some wagons, following car transporters and tankers and cross wind. I now tow at 92% with a twin axle and a 4x4 which I find quite acceptable. My experience is that the higher the ratio the more concentration that is needed which in turn, turns into tiredness on long journey's, not a relaxing way to travel. Go carefully, keep your wits about you and you should be OK. I would have more concern having a gas bottle inside the caravan, as I have seen the effects of one rolling side to side. Strap it in the back of the car, far safer in my opinion. Be careful not to overload the caravan above the 1500kg, you will be suprised how many people do.
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With the greatest respect a towed caravan going downhill is much more likely to become unstable than when on the level or going uphill at the same speed.
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Rushallmanor, I did consider putting the gas bottle in the car but was concerned about the damage it might cause in the cabin/personal injury to us in the event of an accident. I might reconsider though if I feel that I can strap it in securely enough though.
It is pretty secure in the van though, packed in tightly into a corner and wedged in with a memory foam topper
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The idea of towing at or near the towing limit is simply not sensible. The 85% figure for new caravanners can be exceeded but getting a long way past the 90 mark is just taking unneccessary risks. Having been involved in accident investigation I can only
say any loss of control cases I have seen have all been where the towing ratio has exceeded 90%.Quite simply if the caravan begins to snake you need the car to be able to control it and the heavier the car the more chance you have although other factors also come into play.
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I think in practice that I'll actually only ever really be running near 80% thinking about it. Actual weights are more like 1400kg (probably less really) for the van and 1700kg for the car when loaded with 2 passengers and fuel which is about 82%....that
feels more comfortable0 -
The idea of towing at or near the towing limit is simply not sensible. The 85% figure for new caravanners can be exceeded but getting a long way past the 90 mark is just taking unneccessary risks. Having been involved in accident investigation I can only
say any loss of control cases I have seen have all been where the towing ratio has exceeded 90%.Quite simply if the caravan begins to snake you need the car to be able to control it and the heavier the car the more chance you have although other factors also come into play.
While there is no denying that a heavy car and a relatively light caravan is less demanding on the driver, one should bear in mind that the weight ratio is a very hypothetical value based on a worst case scenario of a virtually empty car towing a fully laden
caravan, so it has limited relevance to a real live situation. It doesn't take into account actual conditions. I therefore find it difficult to believe that one is able to judge the weight ratio of an outfit involved in an accident just by looking at it.0 -
Rushallmanor, I did consider putting the gas bottle in the car but was concerned about the damage it might cause in the cabin/personal injury to us in the event of an accident. I might reconsider though if I feel that I can strap it in securely enough though.
It is pretty secure in the van though, packed in tightly into a corner and wedged in with a memory foam topperThat is why it should be strapped firmly in place.
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You might like to look at the Clubs Caravan/Car matching service in the Advice & Training section (link at top of page). Did the dealer say that your car was a suitable match?
The dealer confirmed that it's a legal match but highlighted that it's not an ideal match. However, I am aware of this already and that's not a situation that I can change for another year or so unfortunately. I'm trying to gauge other people's experiences
who are driving a similarly matched outfit but will definately move to a more ideal match as soon as I can0 -
I think in practice that I'll actually only ever really be running near 80% thinking about it. Actual weights are more like 1400kg (probably less really) for the van and 1700kg for the car when loaded with 2 passengers and fuel which is about 82%....that
feels more comfortableIf I were you I would make the assumption that you will be towing at, at least the mptlm. Just weigh a tin of beans or a bottle of wine and you will see how quickly your pay load allowance is used up.
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As someone who investigated accidents the loss of control ones I came accross all involved very high towing ratios. One person does not see enough to make any positive conclusions but it seems more than a coincidence.
I would also point out the advice is based on the kerb weight and makes allowance for the fact that the car will be at least partially loaded so you cannot use the loaded weight in your calculations. Essentially in a crisis you need as much weight as possible
so it is always best to err on the side of caution.0 -
Aside from towing my Caravan, I like many others tow a mini digger/plant, which with the trailer weighs in at just under 3500kg, towed with a Discovery at approx 27000kg. So a big percentage over the suggested 85% guide and tows fine. So towing at a 100%
match is ok if you are experienced at towing.0 -
I think in practice that I'll actually only ever really be running near 80% thinking about it. Actual weights are more like 1400kg (probably less really) for the van and 1700kg for the car when loaded with 2 passengers and fuel which is about 82%....that
feels more comfortable...so, have you weighed your car and van in full touring trim?
otherwise, how will you 'know'.....rather than guess...?
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We currently tow our new Elddis Affinity 550 (MTPLM 1453Kg) with our BMW 320D estate (Kerbweight 1580Kg) which equates to 92%. The dealer, and matching service, said ok with caution. As we have plenty of towing experience we decided to trial this
combination with a view to changing the towcar if unhappy.All has been ok when driving with care, although the caravan has tended to snatch when lorries pass. We've minimised this by moving over to maximise the gap.
But on a recent trip, driving along the A303, for the first time ever we experienced a snake. There was a deep ridge in the road surface, on a gradual downward bend. The road camber was poor and there was a variable side wind. At 55 MPH the caravan
took control just for a few seconds. I slowed without braking and the outfit then gradually stabilised. Not a nice experience!Now thinking of changing the car for a heavier BMW X3. Any comments welcome.
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I would not have thought you were seriously adrift with the weights but different combinatioms can be very different so there is no hard and fast rule. You might also look at the loading as this can affect stabiloity,
If you are now nervous about using the current car I would change it if you can. The simple rule is the heavier the tow car the better and there are very few if any bad tow cars out there.
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Thanks Wildwood, I agree it's difficult to forsee how an outfit will perform until you've committed to purchase. I appreciate your comment on loading, the awning was our only heavy item and this was in the centre over the wheels. I may try relocating the
gas bottle from the front locker into the caravan but will need to encase it in a box to stop it rolling and inflicting internal damage.0
...... fully laden.
