So who tows with a 100% match?
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The CRV is at least blest with a large boot. I would stuff as much as possible into it with the weight as well forward as possibe and run the van as empty as you can. That will help quite a bit. Then suck it and see. My little Audi was very close to 100%
and it was fine in good weather. Pretty horrible when windy. Certainly had to keep the speed down for stability on the motorway. Power and brakes no issue. Just the tail wagging the dog thing....0 -
You`ve all got me a bit worried. we have just purchased a new Luna Ultima 590 [Clubman SR] 1495kg. Going to tow with VW Tiguan 2.0 140 4 motion Kerb weight 1654kg anyone else towed this weight with a Tig. Being towing lighter 1239kg for the last 10 years
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You`ve all got me a bit worried. we have just purchased a new Luna Ultima 590 [Clubman SR] 1495kg. Going to tow with VW Tiguan 2.0 140 4 motion Kerb weight 1654kg anyone else towed this weight with a Tig. Being towing lighter 1239kg for the last 10 years
I am suprised if the Tiguan is lighter than my 2005 X-Trail. With 90% full tank, 75kg for driver etc and towbar filled 1725kg towing Clubman uprated to 1495kg. No problem. Are you sure that your Tig is lighter??
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I went to Hatchco in Layton Utah a real good usedcar dealr I showed the man the caravan i had he got me a 2000 Chevysuburban 2500 to tow my 31'van he made a awsum match it worcks well a good cardealr will help find the rite match
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again, lots of theoretical stuff, but does anyone (especially with a marginal towing ratio or caravan payload) actually get out there and weigh the van?
surely the logical thing to do.....?
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The Tig weight is correct, remember the Tig is based on the Golf platform. I went for the Passat Alltrack principally because it is heavier than the Tiguan. Sure you are not thinking of the Touareg?
No I was thinking of the Tiguan and comparing it with my X-Trail which is not a really big car. I am surprised. I would certainly want to weigh it to check but you may well be correct.
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What Noseweight do you have Hands? Before you go moving things check that. I would be looking for 85kg or over with your van
Yes you're quite right at 85Kg - that's the figure I use and always measure it before every trip usng a calibrated gauge. Unbelievably, the unladen nodeweight of the Affinity is 105Kg!
Therefore I have to load the caravan carefully to shift some weight from the front end. This is why I'm considering storing the gas bottle over the wheels. Every little helps.......
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You`ve all got me a bit worried. we have just purchased a new Luna Ultima 590 [Clubman SR] 1495kg. Going to tow with VW Tiguan 2.0 140 4 motion Kerb weight 1654kg anyone else towed this weight with a Tig. Being towing lighter 1239kg for the last 10 years
I wouldn't worry.
I've been towing over 90% for 5 years, and next year will be nearer 97%.
A heavier caravan in wind is actually a bonus compared to a light caravan. My only concern is the next caravan is 10" longer so more sail area.
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You`ve all got me a bit worried. we have just purchased a new Luna Ultima 590 [Clubman SR] 1495kg. Going to tow with VW Tiguan 2.0 140 4 motion Kerb weight 1654kg anyone else towed this weight with a Tig. Being towing lighter 1239kg for the last 10 years
I wouldn't worry.
I've been towing over 90% for 5 years, and next year will be nearer 97%.
A heavier caravan in wind is actually a bonus compared to a light caravan. My only concern is the next caravan is 10" longer so more sail area.
My experience of accidents is quite simply 97% is too high with most combinations and there is a very definite risk there.
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My experience of accidents is quite simply 97% is too high with most combinations and there is a very definite risk there.
I am still trying to work out how you are able to come to such a conclusion. Quite frankly, I don't think anyone, not even the insurance companies, have the necessary statistical data to prove that there is a direct link between weight ratio and accident
rate even though I would agree that a light caravan hitched to a heavy car is inherently more stable. The sample size that would be needed to make a valid assessment is simply too small and I would suspect that much of the data that would be necessary for
a reliable result isn't even recorded after an accident.After all, instability is not the only possible cause of caravan accidents. We probably don't even know what proportion.
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My experience of accidents is quite simply 97% is too high with most combinations and there is a very definite risk there.
I thought you sad that speed was the biggest cause of accident in your experience of being an accident investigator
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My biggest issue with this discussion is which weight are we using so as not to exceed this 85% guidance? For example take my vehicle. The mass in service weight on the V5C is 1410kg. The CC matching services uses the weight of 1445kg (I haven't a clue where
they get this from). The manufacturer documents state the kerbside weight is 1587kg. I took it to a public weigh bridge and it weighed 1680kg including the manufacturer allowances, the only extra weight was the tow bar. So back to my original issue what definition
of 'kerbside weight' are we referring to?0 -
My biggest issue with this discussion is which weight are we using so as not to exceed this 85% guidance? For example take my vehicle. The mass in service weight on the V5C is 1410kg. The CC matching services uses the weight of 1445kg (I haven't a clue where they get this from). The manufacturer documents state the kerbside weight is 1587kg. I took it to a public weigh bridge and it weighed 1680kg including the manufacturer allowances, the only extra weight was the tow bar. So back to my original issue what definition of 'kerbside weight' are we referring to?
Bear in mind that kerbweight is specific to each and every car. Any database such as the CC matching service and any manufacturer's brochure or website can therefore at best serve only as a rough guide. Even the V5c document is not specific but only gives details of the vehicle weight without any factory fitted options that the customer may have included.
Fact is that kerbweight is not documented anywhere. A weight ratio based on kerbweight of the towcar is therefore of very questionable value, but it is nevertheless still being used by various sources such as the CC themselves.
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Because i'm intending to tow at 97% based on the worst case figures as Luzt has said, i wanted to ensure my caravan insurance would be valid if i needed to claim.
This is what they said.
"Thank you for your e-mail. We have referred to the underwriters of the insurance contract who have advised that they would consider the kerb weight to be the manufacturers kerb weight and the caravan weight to be the MTPLM. "
So to confirm my kerbweight i also asked Mazda this is their reply.
"Thank you for emailing Mazda Motors UK Limited. "I can confirm the kerb weight (including 75kg for a driver) is 1703kg. "
My plated standard weight will be 1636kg but i have asked for a replate to 1700kg. Actually dealer says he will just give me the sticker to use if i need it.
Bear in mind that my car will have a 21kg towbar and a non standard full sized wheel weighing around 27.5 kg.
The other considerations are i have standard shock absorbers and ATC to help if needed, i often drive well below 60 mph, don't do long trips.
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Because i'm intending to tow at 97% based on the worst case figures as Luzt has said, i wanted to ensure my caravan insurance would be valid if i needed to claim.
This is what they said.
"Thank you for your e-mail. We have referred to the underwriters of the insurance contract who have advised that they would consider the kerb weight to be the manufacturers kerb weight and the caravan weight to be the MTPLM. "
So to confirm my kerbweight i also asked Mazda this is their reply.
"Thank you for emailing Mazda Motors UK Limited. "I can confirm the kerb weight (including 75kg for a driver) is 1703kg. "
My plated standard weight will be 1636kg but i have asked for a replate to 1700kg. Actually dealer says he will just give me the sticker to use if i need it.
Bear in mind that my car will have a 21kg towbar and a non standard full sized wheel weighing around 27.5 kg.
The other considerations are i have standard shock absorbers and ATC to help if needed, i often drive well below 60 mph, don't do long trips.
The reply from Mazda is unprofessional. Firstly, because it is not unusual for kerbweight to vary up to 150kg between two vehicles of the same model depending on the equipment, any figure can only be quoted reliably with reference to a specific chassis number. I therefore cannot understand how they can quote a single figure (1703kg).
Secondly, UK legislation states that kerbweight does not include the driver.
Note also that the 21kg for the towbar and the 27.5kg for the spare wheel do not alter the kerbweight but come out of the payload.
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Mazda does not work that way, there are very few options, so its easy for them to declare kerbweights for the entire range.
Obviously there will always be weight tolerances with both car and caravan which is normal.
Also i understand the tow bar and wheel comes off the payload, my 97% ratio is found by using 1703 and 1636 kg.
As it is i feel i have met my insurance conditions, and remain inside all recommendations.
[url=https://www.mazda.co.uk/assets/uk/cars/brochures/cx-5/mazda-cx-5-brochure.pdf] Brochure [/url]
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The reply from Mazda is unprofessional. Firstly, because it is not unusual for kerbweight to vary up to 150kg between two vehicles of the same model depending on the equipment, any figure can only be quoted reliably with reference to a specific chassis number.
I therefore cannot understand how they can quote a single figure (1703kg).Secondly, UK legislation states that kerbweight does not include the driver.
Note also that the 21kg for the towbar and the 27.5kg for the spare wheel do not alter the kerbweight but come out of the payload.
What the UK or anybody else considers to be kerbweight doesn't bother me. I know what I consider as kerbweight and I am happy with that Lutz
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I weighed mine with an empty car - no driver but tow bar fitted. Full fuel tank.
I deducted the weight of 10% of the fuel tank contents and added 75kg for driver and effects to arrive at weight of car with 90% fuel and standard driver which is a common definition. I am happy with that. Whether the manufacturer includes tow bar or not
is irrelevant to me as it is fixed to the car and as far as I am concerned is part of the current kerbweight0 -
Strikes me that quite a lot of those posting here have developed their own definition of kerbweight so why bother with referring to any manufacturer's data or matching websites then? Might as well go straight to a weighbridge and calculate your own weight ratio on that basis for what it's worth as it won't be comparable with any other source or the 85% recommendation.
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Actually mine is comparabale with other sources in as far as how to calculate kerbweight for towing purposes. The info was noy given with my car and there was a wide variance of opinion as to what the actual kerb weight was. Towcar site actually agreed with
my weight if I assume that there was no tow bar fitted in their case. As far as I am concerned and for practical purposes, I consider the tow bar to be part of the kerbweight. In the same was as if I replaced a skinny spare with a full one I would consider
it to be part of the kerbweight.0 -
Can you advise me exactly how car manufacturers calculate the kerb weight of cars?
Ernest SidebottomA: Kerb weight is the weight of a car with all fluids (coolant, engine oil, brake fluid) plus a full tank of fuel and a driver weighing 75kg.
It's measured when new cars are put forward for UNECE (United Nations Economic Commission for Europe) type approval by their respective manufacturers.
Cars are tested with a standard specification, so if you choose to add options like air-conditioning or alloy wheels the actual kerb weight of your car may be slightly higher or lower than the official figure.
In the UK, this testing is carried out by the VCA (Vehicle Certification Agency), but an approval issued by any equivalent organisation in the EU is accepted by all member states.
Or from National Trailer and Towong Association
am confused about my car’s kerb weight as the handbook says that it includes the driver. Is this correct? The usual definition of kerb weight is a vehicle in its ready to use condition with all tools, spare wheel etc. and a full tank of fuel. Many vehicle manufacturers are, however, now following European Directive 95/48/EC which specifies the kerb weight as a car in ready to drive condition with the fuel tank 90% full, a driver on board weighing 68 kg and luggage of 7 kg. Any extras or accessories fitted after purchase will increase the weight and reduce both payload capacity and hence the towing limit. When looking at a car’s specification in a brochure please check the method of determining the kerb weight. If it is to the EC Directive you must allow for the weight of any other passengers and luggage and deduct that weight from the towing limit accordingly. This could easily reduce the towing limit by 250-300 kg. If in doubt please check with the car makers technical department directly. Do not rely on a car dealer’s salesman, as they are often uncertain on towing information.
The later recommendation is one that I found in general
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surely there are too many variables in weighing your car on a weigh bridge .... full or almost empty fuel tank and what weight is the driver?
I did my best to take into account what the manufacturer used to define kerbside weight such as the fuel and fluid levels, removing all the clutter inside plus adjusting to their driver weight of 75kg. I contacted the local trading standards who confirmed they had recently checked the weighbridge, they also explained that this, like other weighbridges, weighed in multiples of 20kg.
The point I was trying to make is as there is no single definition of what 'kerbside' weight is how accurate are the results people get using this 85% guidance?
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Just because there is no such thing as 'kerbweight' and it is MIRO is a technicality as far as I am concerned. My car manufacturer did not provide MIRO. I merely wish to compare the weight of my car to weight of caravan in a practical way. We know that the definition of 'mass' and 'weight' are not the same but in general parlance we ignore the difference. To do otherwise would be pedantic for most puposes
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