Reversed polarity
Hi
Off to France in a few weeks time . How common is the problem of reversed polarity. And what is the best equipment to combat the problem and where can I get it.
Cheers
Comments
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Quite common. To correct it you need a mains tester to show that the polarity is reversed and if it is, a short lead, to fit into your EHU cable to reverse the polarity back again
Try putting "reverse mains polarity" into an Ebay search to see some examples
If the polarity is reversed your appliances are still live, even when the switch is turned off, as the switch would break the "Neutral" wire rather than the "Live" wire, as it would in the UK.
So not a major problem unless you start poking around your appliances with a screwdriver
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Some say it's life or death...some say it's never caused a known problem since caravanning began.
As an ex spark I am with the latter.
PS. Virtually everybody who thinks it is a problem will leave all their home appliances on standby....even when they go on holiday!
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As far as im aware a problem will only arise if the electrical item has a problem, all it means is when something is switched off at the plug it will still be live, i took all measure of leads to france on my first trip different wired plugs 2 pin three
pin,all sites i have stayed on were the same as here,on another note a caravan i bought came with a blue lead the owner had used it for 5 years in the uk when i tried a polarity tester it was reverse wired for the uk and it had been used for all them years
with no problems.0 -
For our Swift with Sargent panel, I believe that the RP light also indicates a problem with the Earth connection (faulty or absent) So if swapping L & N doesn't fix it that may be the problem? Of course you hopefully have RCDs but, personally I want a decent
Earth AND the back up of the RCD?0 -
If it bothers you that much, buy a 3 pin plug tester that indicates polarity ( looks like a normal 3 pin plug with neon lights on its face ) Aldi were selling some a few weeks ago, or fleabay under £4.etc.
Then nip down to toolstation and buy a male and female IP44 - 250v-16 amp plug and socket, blue ( £3.90)and buy a meter length of 2.5mm artic cable and make your own reverse polarity lead. Make sure you swap live and neutral in one plug. Then simply make
a label or have one made up stating "Reverse Polarity cable". Job done.0 -
According to Serjeant the Reverse Polarity light on the control unit is designed for UK conditions, where the earth and neutral are connected at the substation. Mine lit up in Spain, but the rcd still tripped on test.
According to Electrician's Forums and other reliable sources, the rcd will trip with/without an earth and with/without reversed polarity.
So check your rcd and don't tackle electical repairs unless you know what you're doing.
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I`m with Waltons, if you would`nt accept reverse polarity wiring in your house why accept it in your caravan.
But you do accept it in your house if you live in Europe, or rent a holiday house there, or stay in a hotel, or use your hair drier in a campsite shower block.
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I`m with Waltons, if you would`nt accept reverse polarity wiring in your house why accept it in your caravan.
But you do accept it in your house if you live in Europe, or rent a holiday house there, or stay in a hotel, or use your hair drier in a campsite shower block.
My understanding is that in the UK the switch should work on the Live wire. In Europe the switch works on both the Live and Neutral wires simultaneously, which is why they wire the circuit up either way around.
So while your European house/hotel/campsite may have the polarity reversed the Live is always interupted when the switch if Off
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I have posted on this before but I don't mind repeating myself if it is of benefit to somebody.
For historical reasons believed to be due to cost saving on copper, UK wiring practice is rather different to continental Europe. We have ring mains, fuses, and single pole switches and elsewhere they have radial feeds and double pole switches.
If you have a fuse or switch at home in the UK it inerrupts the live conductor. So, if you switch off at a plug then you could in theory (not desirable) work on the appliance in safety without further isolation. If the supply is reversed then the live wire is still "live" and if you stick your fingure in an appliance it could be nasty.
HOWEVER, most modern caravans have double pole switches which overcomes the problem. All caravans have rcd's which should protect you if you do touch live. The rcd will work irrespective of polarity, missing external earth etc.
IF you remember to properly isolate a supply before doing any maintenance or repair - switch off at main isolator or take the plug out - then there is not a problem. If you don't remememer and you touch live then you should still be protected.
A final point, there are many electric shocks and fatalities caused by people wiring plugs in correctly. Like connecting the earth to the live pin - daft but true.
SO, by all means make up a reverse polarity lead provided you are competent and use the correct weather protected fittings.
We come across RP every trip to the continent. I do nothing but it is an individual choice.
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We are currently on a site in Spain, it has 'no earth' the continentals don't seem to bother. But just about every British vanner has asked 'are we safe' what should we do. OH was in the armed forces, they always set up an Earth cable from the trucks to
the ground. If in doubt its an easy thing to do. Like Hitch we have come across RP on many sites while abroad, we have a tester and a short reverse polarity cable which we can use.0 -
We are currently on a site in Spain, it has 'no earth' the continentals don't seem to bother. But just about every British vanner has asked 'are we safe' what should we do. OH was in the armed forces, they always set up an Earth cable from the trucks to
the ground. If in doubt its an easy thing to do. Like Hitch we have come across RP on many sites while abroad, we have a tester and a short reverse polarity cable which we can use.The 'continentals' don't seem to bother because "ignorance is bliss". You need to connect your van chassis to earth, or stop using the supply. ( See CC advice). A simple way to achieve this is to use a jump start lead clamped onto some metal work underneath
and onto a large tent peg driven as deep as possible into the ground. There may be other metal posts nearbye that you could use. Your earth warning should then be ok. This will ensure that the rcd works ok and at least will prevent the van chassis from becoming
'live'. Stepping from ground onto caravan step is where the risk lies. That's why the Forces always ground mobile accommodation.0 -
Are you sure it has no earth? Is there an earth cable in the connection to the EHU? The reason I ask is that some Spanish sites use an unusual electrical supply with no neutral (for the technically minded, this can be phase to phase 230v from a delta wound
secondary transformer). This will often give a false reading of "no earth" on supply indicators in the caravan but it doesnt necessarily mean that there is no earth to the caravan. I believe that all the wiring standards are the same on the continent in requiring
an earth.0 -
Are you sure it has no earth? Is there an earth cable in the connection to the EHU? The reason I ask is that some Spanish sites use an unusual electrical supply with no neutral (for the technically minded, this can be phase to phase 230v from a delta wound
secondary transformer). This will often give a false reading of "no earth" on supply indicators in the caravan but it doesnt necessarily mean that there is no earth to the caravan. I believe that all the wiring standards are the same on the continent in requiring
an earth.No idea, the tester says no earth, everyones reads the same but as I said we've been here a week and no problems, not about to start checking the EHU's. Noted what you said about false readings.
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We are currently on a site in Spain, it has 'no earth' the continentals don't seem to bother. But just about every British vanner has asked 'are we safe' what should we do. OH was in the armed forces, they always set up an Earth cable from the trucks to
the ground. If in doubt its an easy thing to do. Like Hitch we have come across RP on many sites while abroad, we have a tester and a short reverse polarity cable which we can use.The 'continentals' don't seem to bother because "ignorance is bliss". You need to connect your van chassis to earth, or stop using the supply. ( See CC advice). A simple way to achieve this is to use a jump start lead clamped onto some metal work underneath
and onto a large tent peg driven as deep as possible into the ground. There may be other metal posts nearbye that you could use. Your earth warning should then be ok. This will ensure that the rcd works ok and at least will prevent the van chassis from becoming
'live'. Stepping from ground onto caravan step is where the risk lies. That's why the Forces always ground mobile accommodation.
45 years in the Army 25 of them in REME I think I will trust him to know what he's doing
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"All caravans have rcd's which should protect you if you do touch live. The rcd will work irrespective of polarity, missing external earth etc."
interesting, although i think we have double pole switches, i havent yet found the RCD. DD has a similar van and he couldnt find his either....
perhaps this is a 'german van' (Carthago?) thing?
Chas, does your Hymer have an RCD?
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I guess I shouldn't make blanket statements since I have not looked in every make of caravan/motorhome, UK or European. I would suggest however that it would be unusual to not have one. No push to test button on any of the breakers?
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I guess I shouldn't make blanket statements since I have not looked in every make of caravan/motorhome, UK or European. I would suggest however that it would be unusual to not have one. No push to test button on any of the breakers?
not that i can find....we have three trip/breakers in the 'electrics' cabinet, along with charger, but no RCD and no mention in the handbook.
DD and i exchanged photos of the cabinet contents and could find no RCD (as i know it) anywhere....
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I would find it inconceivable that any 'van less than 20 years old would NOT have an RCD. It is probably combined as the main incoming switch in the 'consumer unit'. It may not actually say RCD on it (though there will be symbols which indicate this) and
it will have a test button.If you really do have a commercially built 'van without an RCD something is seriously wrong!
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We are currently on a site in Spain, it has 'no earth' the continentals don't seem to bother. But just about every British vanner has asked 'are we safe' what should we do. OH was in the armed forces, they always set up an Earth cable from the trucks to the ground. If in doubt its an easy thing to do. Like Hitch we have come across RP on many sites while abroad, we have a tester and a short reverse polarity cable which we can use.
The 'continentals' don't seem to bother because "ignorance is bliss". You need to connect your van chassis to earth, or stop using the supply. ( See CC advice). A simple way to achieve this is to use a jump start lead clamped onto some metal work underneath and onto a large tent peg driven as deep as possible into the ground. There may be other metal posts nearbye that you could use. Your earth warning should then be ok. This will ensure that the rcd works ok and at least will prevent the van chassis from becoming 'live'. Stepping from ground onto caravan step is where the risk lies. That's why the Forces always ground mobile accommodation.
45 years in the Army 25 of them in REME I think I will trust him to know what he's doingHope we didn't appear to be "teaching Granny to suck eggs" - no offense intended. We've provided our own connection to earth using a stout wire and clips on Spanish and other sites. Many continental electricity suppliers do not supply an earth, just live and neutral, and you have to provide your own for your property.( an earth spike in the cellar). In UK the neutral is earthed at the sub station and the earth carried on the outer protective sheath. On some continental sites, the ehus are just not connected properly to include a local earth.
We have an RCD, BB
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not that i can find....we have three trip/breakers in the 'electrics' cabinet, along with charger, but no RCD and no mention in the handbook.
DD and i exchanged photos of the cabinet contents and could find no RCD (as i know it) anywhere....
I'm wondering if maybe you have three RCBO's ? ... these are overcurrent circuit breakers
combined with an RCD.0 -
Just to revert back to my "false reading" comment, the plug detectors are measuring polarity with respect to a neutral supply as per UK practice and, of course, the neutral is connected to earth at some point. If you have a phase to phase supply there is
no neutral, no reference point and the detector gets totally confused. Therefore you could get any combination of lights from reverse polarity to no earth but they are all meaningless. A commercial supply to a site should have an earth but there are still
parts of the planet where this is not common practice, despite any regulations and wiring practices to the contrary.If no earth, you are protected inside your van by the rcd but there is nothing to protect the outside of the van if, say, there is a fault on your cable and it makes the outer metal live.
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BB perhaps we should do the wet finger test. Please let me know how you get on and what if anything trips
.OH just doing the washing up....ill run her through the process.....
perhaps one of the small yellow buttons we 'ventured' earlier...
ill try a little more research prior to 'detonating'......
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Good move BB, nothing like delegation.
We are off tomorrow returning end of May. I suspect we may find some reverse polarity in France, not that I am going to check. I will have internet access some of the time and will follow your exploits
.take care both, enjoy the time in Plymouth and keep in touch with the tour highlights....
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45 years in the Army 25 of them in REME I think I will trust him to now what he's doing
Hope we didn't appear to be "teaching Granny to suck eggs" - no offense intended. We've provided our own connection to earth using a stout wire and clips on Spanish and other sites. Many continental electricity suppliers do not supply an earth, just live
and neutral, and you have to provide your own for your property.( an earth spike in the cellar). In UK the neutral is earthed at the sub station and the earth carried on the outer protective sheath. On some continental sites, the ehus are just not connected
properly to include a local earth.We have an RCD, BB
...No offence taken chas, OH did consider a spike but . . . . . .
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