Plans for new CC Bristol site rejected
Just seen >>> this <<< BBC article regarding Baltic Wharf closure and the rejection of planning application from CC for replacement site.
Comments
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One would think that Bristol being the home of Bailey Caravans & therefore a major employer. The council would look favourably at any application within it's boundaries for a club site - not to mention the tourist spend that such sites bring.
I wonder what the response would be if it were the government forcing them to provide a travellers site - would the green belt still be an issue ?
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I think what they need to do is get a respected professional planning consulting company in to challenge the decision. As the site clearly can't be used for housing what other use can it be put to? It seems that Bristol does not want a campsite with easy
access to the City?David
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I know the old Bower Ashton site intimately and it would have made a reasonable site being very flat already. However it is close to the river and the grass fields that make up most of the site can be slow to dry out after wet weather.
Knowing the previous Mayor I invited him to take coffee with me in my caravan which I had sited at Baltic wharf. In the event the mayor himself suffered a family berievement and was not able to come but sent two of his assistants to my coffee party.
Once again I knew both senior members of Bristol City Council well, and we had a very informative and helpful conversation. It was very much as I had expected, for neither of them had any experience of our sort of caravanning. Over the recent past large groups of intinerant travellers had caused untold inconvenience and damage all over the regions green spaces and it is quite evident that to the vast majority of Councillors, caravans means travellersand that means trouble. Hence the lack of interest in saving Baltic Wharf.
They left our meeting much better informed and very concious of the huge plus factor that the type of caravanning that we do brings to the local tourist industry.
Within a short time the school idea was dropped and two extensions of our lease followed. BUT the current posion is less rosy! The City Council is in deep financial trouble and needs to raise money quickly. Baltic wharf is on prime development land and the site itself must be worth BIG money and they need that money. So hence the new pressure on us.
But here is the problem. The reason that Baltic Wharf has been so successful is its uniqueness! Its next to a pub and a beautiful inland waterway. sailing and other water sports are taking place. It really is lovely. It will be almost impossible to find a site so attractive!
The Bower Ashton site is quite close to Baltic wharf and within easy walking distance of the water front and the neaby Ashton gate parkland where the balloon fiesta is held!
TF
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how tragic that this lovely site is going to slip away....
TF cites the attractions and also how rare it is to have this type of facility.....but think about it, the attraction is nothing to do with the site itself (a concrete car park with caravan spaces and a shower block, all wrapped up in a tiny plot) and everything
to do with location.whats even sadder, is that this type of stopover 'city aire' (for that is all it is, physically) are two a penny (centime/cent) in France.
we have stopped at loads of city aires, right in the heart of town, sometimes on rivers as in the case of BW....one main difference with BW is that its a members facility and caravans, as well as MH are allowed.
i so wish there were more of these (York is handy, C&CC Oxford, sites at Cheltenham, Broadway, Ludlow, Bath etc spring to mind) but the enduring association of caravans with travellers seems the death knell for further additions.....
perhaps, as travellers dont use MHs, perhaps a true city aire (MH only) might be on the cards.....
a real shame, weve used it once and would love to back.....perhaps a stint on the ipad on Frenzy Day......wash my mouth out...
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It does not look as though Bristol Council want a caravan site, with all the money it injects into the local economy. Inappropriate development. Well, once developed you would probably hardly know it was there, as is the case with most CC sites. It would
certainly look a lot better than the current buildings. Poor access, really? Risk of flooding, how many times has that area flooded? My only comment is, it could do with being twice the size.0 -
Both locations are prime sites for housing which generates local revenue all year round and rakes in lots of Council Tax. They can even pile habitation units on top of others to increase the income.
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Almost every planning application put in here gets rejected almost as a matter of course. It is then put in again with a few amendments and then it is usually passed, if not they try until it is passed. Maybe someone needs to be more tenacious.
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Interesting they had looked at 59 other possible sites. I think Brsitol City Council is so strapped for cash that most land will get ear marked for more expensive development? We drive past this site quite often, wouldn't think it would flood any more than
Baltic Wharf unless the Avon floods everywhere round there. Hope the negotiations continue. The site is close to Ashton Court and the Clifton suspension bridge.0 -
If it has not been dne the Club should invite the councillors to0 view Baltic Wharf and see the standards the cloub achieves and the type of peoploe using it. Not sure if it would get them onside but they would see we are not a problem like the travellers
referred to.At the end of the day if the club has bought the new site and cannot get planning permission I suspect they will make a fair profit on selling it though.
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If its been turned down because it floods, how is that going to be any good to build houses on, surely the cost to flooded houses would be far greater than to a site where folk can at least drive away before it get too bad. Or have I got it wrong.
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Those modern tennament blocks being thrown up in the area are to my mind innapropriate development, future ghettos with no social infrastructure for community growth.
Rowntree in York suffers more flooding than the propsed site in Brizzle, but continues once it dries out. Would housing built there be insurable? Is that a sensible way for a council to behave, build tennaments on flood plains? Any development must surely
have flood defence demands on it for permanent housing that developers are not always keen to do.On the bright side, when speaking with Grimstead Towers earlier in the week was informed the BW site has a 3 year extension on a rolling 3 month notice basis
In regard to city centre sites, surely the CC is actively lobbying to establish more. The tourist trade from Brexit is rising, our continental friends who are used to city centre aires would love to see our great cities on their cheap tours given the exchange
rate
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how tragic that this lovely site is going to slip away....
TF cites the attractions and also how rare it is to have this type of facility.....but think about it, the attraction is nothing to do with the site itself (a concrete car park with caravan spaces and a shower block, all wrapped up in a tiny plot) and everything
to do with location.whats even sadder, is that this type of stopover 'city aire' (for that is all it is, physically) are two a penny (centime/cent) in France.
we have stopped at loads of city aires, right in the heart of town, sometimes on rivers as in the case of BW....one main difference with BW is that its a members facility and caravans, as well as MH are allowed.
i so wish there were more of these (York is handy, C&CC Oxford, sites at Cheltenham, Broadway, Ludlow, Bath etc spring to mind) but the enduring association of caravans with travellers seems the death knell for further additions.....
perhaps, as travellers dont use MHs, perhaps a true city aire (MH only) might be on the cards.....
a real shame, weve used it once and would love to back.....perhaps a stint on the ipad on Frenzy Day......wash my mouth out...
Write your comments here...travellers do have motor homes there were about 5 on Weymouth park and ride very large and very new
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"Those modern tenements" mentioned by Keefysher, are quite expensive if you mean the ones by Baltic Wharf. But there are new halls of residence being developed near Ashton Bower, the university uses quite a bit of land round there. The proposed site doesn't
have a shop or pub nearby but there's access to the Avon cycle path and walk. I was half hoping that a site could be found on the Ashton Court Estate itself, good parkland facilities and lots of events.0 -
I think what they need to do is get a respected professional planning consulting company in to challenge the decision. As the site clearly can't be used for housing what other use can it be put to? It seems that Bristol does not want a campsite with easy
access to the City?David
They are already using Savilles, highly respected consultants in the field of planning.
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"Those modern tenements" mentioned by Keefysher, are quite expensive if you mean the ones by Baltic Wharf. But there are new halls of residence being developed near Ashton Bower, the university uses quite a bit of land round there. The proposed site doesn't
have a shop or pub nearby but there's access to the Avon cycle path and walk. I was half hoping that a site could be found on the Ashton Court Estate itself, good parkland facilities and lots of events.Not as expensive as the tenements going up along the thames in Londinium on the 'Buy to Leave' scheme. Ones in Chelsea have balconies falling off and killing people, owners buy them then can't afford to maintain them. Thats the problem with a non productive
economy based on the price of houses, house of cards more like0 -
how tragic that this lovely site is going to slip away....
TF cites the attractions and also how rare it is to have this type of facility.....but think about it, the attraction is nothing to do with the site itself (a concrete car park with caravan spaces and a shower block, all wrapped up in a tiny plot) and everything
to do with location.whats even sadder, is that this type of stopover 'city aire' (for that is all it is, physically) are two a penny (centime/cent) in France.
we have stopped at loads of city aires, right in the heart of town, sometimes on rivers as in the case of BW....one main difference with BW is that its a members facility and caravans, as well as MH are allowed.
i so wish there were more of these (York is handy, C&CC Oxford, sites at Cheltenham, Broadway, Ludlow, Bath etc spring to mind) but the enduring association of caravans with travellers seems the death knell for further additions.....
perhaps, as travellers dont use MHs, perhaps a true city aire (MH only) might be on the cards.....
a real shame, weve used it once and would love to back.....perhaps a stint on the ipad on Frenzy Day......wash my mouth out...
Write your comments here...travellers do have motor homes there were about 5 on Weymouth park and ride very large and very new
...getting more discerning, perhaps?
seriously, Weymouth is another place where the 'traveller excuse' has prevented the development of the 'promised' aire at Lodmoor....
if we only had the balls to resolve trespassing incidents without the long winded current process.......etc, etc,....
perhaps Brexit will mean our own (sensible) laws being revived...?
still, back to BW, if theres an ongoing extension, ill perhaps have a try on the 8th (or whichever day it is....
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Looking at the decision I would say that they have no chance whatsoever of getting it through on appeal.
These are not minor issues we are talking about and the BBC article oversimplifies them.
It was rejected for the following reasons:-
Reason(s) 1. The proposed development will detract from the openness of the Bristol Green Belt and, in the absence of very special circumstances, constitutes inappropriate development in the Green Belt. The proposal conflicts with Bristol Core Strategy Policy
BCS 6 (adopted June 2011) and Paragraphs 87-89 of the National Planning Policy Framework (March 2012). 2. The proposed development would fail to preserve or enhance heritage assets, namely the Bower Ashton Conservation Area and the Ashton Court Estate, a Registered
Historic Park and Garden, and its setting. The proposal would conflict with Bristol Core Strategy Policy BCS 22 (adopted June 2011) and Policy DM 31 of the Site Allocations and Development Management Policies (adopted July 2014). 3. The application fails to
demonstrate that the proposed development will be safe from flooding or that it will not adversely increase flood risk elsewhere. It would therefore conflict with Policy BCS 16 of the Bristol Core Strategy adopted in 2011. 4. The proposal is contrary to Policy
DM23 of the Bristol Local Plan Site Allocations and Development Management Policies (adopted July 2014) and Paragraph 32 of the National Planning Policy Guidance (March 2012) since the proposed means of access with its restricted visibility is considered unsuitable
to serve the increase in traffic that would be associated with the proposed development. It would result in the scheme being prejudicial to highway safety.These are relating to Planning Policy, not just officer or councillor objections.
The club were either poorly advised of they had bought the land without looking into it.
A little research backs up the decision. There have been applications by nearby premises to riase structures 70mm off the ground to keep stock safe from flooding. Also Google Streetviedw shows a narrow and busy road on a blind bend. Allowing caravans to
join and leave the highway at this point would be a recipe for disaster.0 -
The sixties style buildings on the proposed site don't exactly enhance it at the moment.
Just two words .............. Planning Policy.
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Its always sad when the CC loses sites. They closed one of my favourites at Argartan a number of years ago. Great location, just on the waters edge and within walking distance of four of the best mountain climbs in the Arrocher Alps. (There is now a Bus Tour Hotel on the site.)
They also gave away their brilliant site at Braemar ( another of my favourites ) to the land owners who are doing very nicely running it as a commercial site.
I'm sure the CC will find another site in the Bristol area, but it aint looking very hopeful at the moment.
Cheers.......K
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A little research backs up the decision. There have been applications by nearby premises to riase structures 70mm off the ground to keep stock safe from flooding. Also Google Streetviedw shows a narrow and busy road on a blind bend. Allowing caravans to join and leave the highway at this point would be a recipe for disaster.
The line of sight from the bend at the bottom of Rownham hill, to the current southern entrance to the property is approx 140 metres. It may or may not be possible to move this even further from the bend, but in a 30 mph zone, as this is, I can't see it as being particularly hazardous. The entrance is also not far from the start of a 20 mph zone, for the University, and perhaps this could be extended. As to flooding, if 70mm (2.75 inches) can make a difference, the CC can put more clippings on the hardstandings.
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having done a circular walk from BW and joined Rownham Hill via Burwalls Road, i can testify that, whatever the official speed limit, i wouldn't want to pull a caravan or MH out onto that road..
..this is a very busy (and fast) road.....we took our lives in our hands just crossing the road to get to the walkway down to the Avon cycle way.....no pavements, blind bends.....and drivers on a rat run to and from the city.
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having done a circular walk from BW and joined Rownham Hill via Burwalls Road, i can testify that, whatever the official speed limit, i wouldn't want to pull a caravan or MH out onto that road..
..this is a very busy (and fast) road.....we took our lives in our hands just crossing the road to get to the walkway down to the Avon cycle way.....no pavements, blind bends.....and drivers on a rat run to and from the city.
Where there is a will there is a way. Perhaps the simple act of the CC funding some fixed speed cameras for the local partnership, as part of the planning approval, could solve the problem and make the road safer into the bargain. It is not as though there have not been a lot of horse boxes going in and out over the years. Although these would have had police on them. Oh there is a pavement up to where the site would be.
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We drive down Chanage Rd quite a lot, will be passing through today once more. I'll take a look again but we've taken the van through there as access to and from the M5 Gordano exit is easy, approaching from the east is slightly awkward. Chanage Rd itself
is no more busy than a lot of local roads. But I'll look at it more closely today!0 -
in fairness, we exited the road a couple of hundred yards further up the hill, after the pavement expires....at that point, the traffic was fast and heavy.....perhaps lower down (past the police site) it is a bit better.
however, IMHO the street view pictures do illustrate how busy this road is...but perhaps im not used to loads of traffic
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From memory there is footpath access to the Avon from Chanage Rd. Possibly alongside Bedminster Cricket ground next door. The main problem is walking to the harbourside, I think this is being improved at the moment but I will check. There is cycle and walking access up to the Ashton Court Gate but not sure where this starts,
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having done a circular walk from BW and joined Rownham Hill via Burwalls Road, i can testify that, whatever the official speed limit, i wouldn't want to pull a caravan or MH out onto that road..
..this is a very busy (and fast) road.....we took our lives in our hands just crossing the road to get to the walkway down to the Avon cycle way.....no pavements, blind bends.....and drivers on a rat run to and from the city.
Sorry off topic
If you do the walk again BB, a much nicer, but longer, alternative, is to continue up the road from the bridge into Ashton court and then down through the deer park and past the University. This then crosses Clanage Road at a pedestrian crossing and continues down to the Avon via Festival way. There is a nice cafe at Ashton Court House where one cab pause for coffees or something to eat.
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