No Dustbins
Comments
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When we were recently at Chatsworth the wardens had constructed a bin store which meant that the big bins could be propped open even when it was raining. I am not disabled, but I am not very tall, so previously if I had several items to put in the recycling bin, my hands were already full, so I could not lift the bin lid without putting all my recycling things on the ground. However, with the bin store I could put everything in because lids were propped open.
Unfortunatley, unless recycling is made as easy as possible as number of people just won’t bother. If small bins were placed at the service points and were designated as only for recycling, we all know that some people will just get rid of anything there.
It must be a good idea to try to reduce the bin bags which go into landfill, but also to keep in mind that a lot of people “take the easy option” and just get rid of their rubbish anywhere.
Perhaps the answer would be for some sites where space permits, to have two recycling and rubbish points. If the wardens need to push the big bins to a location where the council can easily empty them, so be it. The wardens at Chatsworth seem to manage this.
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I collect my recyclables in an old shopping bag for disposal at the recycling bins. On one site recently, I could not locate these bins and on asking a site manager where they were, I was advised they did not have any. They used to have them but so many people took no notice of them they now only have general refuse bins and the sorting is done by the local council after collection.
peedee
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Yes, some councils do it that way. Rowena has covered it in the past.
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Currently on a site at St Germain les Belles (France) and on tipping my rubbish into the “general rubbish “ bin was challenged by the warden who said their bins were inspected and if recycling had not been done correctly the site was fined by the council.
I sheepishly retrieved 2 cans and relocated them to the metal container!!
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We have been to this site many times Toby and had no issue with where to put rubbish and the staff there are the owners of the site, until recently the black bin was locked and had to be opened by the site staff.
We have the same euro bins here the same as sites and have trouble opening them up DK suggestion of using a walking stick is a good idea, a few times have been to them and have tried to help with a few ladies who are much older and smaller than us but no they can manage thank you.
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We have been informed that the move to a single site for the waste receptacles is to save on the cost of plastic bags. I heard yesterday that the club are saving money on the action another way too, by cutting two hour from the working week of the site staff, the estimated time they would have spent going round their site emptying the dust bins sited at the water points! I doubt however that anyone from the club will either confirm or refute this.
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@nelliethehooker It would follow the logic that if there is a labour saving from not having to visit individual bin sites several times a day then there would be a saving in man hours. I suppose a minimum of £25 per staff member per week adds up over the course of the site opening period and, perhaps, takes pressure off future site price rises?
David
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I would have said that the savings are easily proven. If you do not have to buy the bags the cost of the bags is a saving.
If the staff do not have to empty the bins and transfer the contents to a larger one that too is a saving. he staff do have to clean the service points though so I would doubt the two hour figure.
It also rules a health and safety point where staff can be injured by sharp objects in the bags. I have dealt with several accidents to employees involving this problem in my work.
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I have recently been on a couple of CaMC sites where they are retaining the service point bin stores dotted around site rather than centralising them. I’m not sure who decides the criteria for which system is be in adopted or who makes that call.
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We visited Wirral site in October and they still had bins sited at the toilet block. We were told they were awaiting instructions from on high as to the future siting of the Euro type bins, probably near the reception/entrance. So I think all sites will eventually go this way.
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When this was discussed before the savings were £636,000 and 2.5 million bags used annually. I think that a significant and proven amount in both in terms of money and plastic bags, which would just end up in landfill?
Also it was stated by the club that if anyone has difficulty in using the bins for whatever reason then help is avaiable on site.
I'm for them.
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It was the same at Troutbeck, most annoying as I went searching for the large dump bins near the reception!😖
@DavidKlyne I think that the concern was from the site wardens who have had a drop in their salaries. Perhaps the thin end of the wedge!
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@nelliethehooker Perfectly understandable of course. Obviously we are never privy, nor should be, to the T&C's of site staff. Perhaps a possible saving grace is that there is usually a turnover of site staff each year with deputies getting the full warden jobs etc, or perhaps a change of locations which might help make it less difficult? We appear to have lost our friendly insider who used to provide us with snippets of info, or at the very least dispel any myths?
David
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@DavidKlyne Perhaps he has been warned off posting by you know who!? 😉
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I cannot imagine site staff wages have been cut just because they no longer have to empty bins. It does represent a labour saving but they are still on site and available to do other things. It is pure speculation to say there wages have been cut.
peedee
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Both can be true. saving plastic waste has to be good, and the cost to CAMC will be more than the cost of the bags and will include the time spent by wardens.
I'm perfectly happy with a single collection point and don't understand the anger it's generated among some members.3 -
I'm perfectly happy with a single collection point and don't understand the anger it's generated among some members.
As we use various different sorts of sites we encounter differing waste collection so another one makes no difference but I can understand some of the objections as they relate to difficulty in operating them for small people or members who for whatever reason don't have the strength maybe due to a disability or illness or maybe the siting of the bin is a long way from their unit. There are a variety of reasons why people may not like the changes. Doesn't take much to understand their reasons even if you don't mind the change yourself.
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Steve
I do wonder if there is a fair body of members that only use Club sites, so any change is a bigger thing for them for all sorts of reasons. Anyone used to a wider range of sites outside the Club network would have probably came across central bins and not thought a lot about it, especially if they have ventured to Europe.
David
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I just wonder what the real issue is regarding centralised rubbish collection.....
It will save site staff time and will save the Club the expense of supplying so many plastic rubbish bags. Does this mean it is more 'environmentally friendly' because of using less plastic??
However, with a central collection point, there always needs to be a facility to drive and park next to the collection points, especially on large sites where it is a long way to walk and carry stuff, and especially to accommodate disabled and less able members. In my view, if there is no parking facility the collection points should remain distributed across the site. It is quite possible to drop off rubbish on the way out of the site, but this may not always be the case. This has 'environmental impact' by driving the car to the drop off point. Rubbish is usually taken in plastic bags, which also has an environment impact.
So many times we have seperated rubbish, only to find that it has to be 'redistributed' when you get to collection points, because of 'local requirements'. I'm sure some folk will find the 'a bit of a chore'!!
Perhaps individual sites should make rubbish/ recycling 'rules' clear on the site information leaflet to help members sort thing out before they get to the skips.
Not sure if centralising the rubbish collection areas is an environmental or cost saving exercise.... but parking at the collection points is a must for many members.
David
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I have found space to stop and put refuse in the bins at the club sites we have used, but there are a lot of sites so I cannot say if some are a problem. Provided there is room to park then bins at the exit seem to be the best, cheapest and most environmentally friendly answer and I have seen no acceptable to me argument against this so far. If there is no room then those sites need a rethink and a local solution.
I take the point about the sites having possibly different ways of recycling due to local facilities. The site information leaflet could detail the site's system for those unfamiliar with it. A sensible and long term cost free solution, assuming you take the leaflet. Not sure how many do though as we often take only the site plan. It might be better on that or both.
Most people will go outmost days, on that basis, if they are sensible, they will drop off any rubbish then and that should not have any environmental impact. Even with bins around the site I find that people use plastic bags to deposit waste, so the newer system is not a problem there as I see it.
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A lot of people find many things in life a bit of a chore and very often seem to actually look for something to complain about. As for the envinonmental and cost saving, of course it will do that as the bin bags were changed more than once a day and very often had next to nothing in them, when renewed which I always thought of as neither cost effective nor enviromentally friendly. It is annoying though when you have separated your rubbish and then find you have to re-sort it when you get to the bins, so having the rules on the info sheet is a good idea.
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Perhaps it’s just the sites we have stayed on, but I have never found any need to re-sort rubbish at the bins. Mainly there just seem to be one for general land fill and another for mixed recycling, which excludes glass. Some, but not all, sites have a separate glass bin. Occasionally everything just goes in the one bin. Makes no difference to what we do in the van, general waste goes in the small door back bin and mixed recycling in a bag alongside. We wouldn’t change that even on an everything in one bin site, as the door back bin would fill up too quickly.
As to centralised or by the exit bins:- When we bought a caravan 20 years ago the majority of our camping (in tents) had taken place in Europe. On joining the caravan club I found it a little surprising to see multiple refuse points, necessitating a tractor to go round emptying them, often more than once a day. It always seemed rather a waste of warden time and resources. By the exit, or at the toilet block to me seems a lot more sensible. We recently stayed at Chatsworth and there it’s at the toilet block. Probably because there is limited room at the exit, although it could be because with a door through the wall into the park folk don’t often walk out of the main gate. Where the bins have been sited at the entrance, we have found no problems pulling over with the Motorhome to deposit when leaving.
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I do agree that some of the complaints on this subject seem to be more for the sake of it than justifiable. The C&CC have used the bins at the exit system for years and disposing of it there is just routine. Given a couple of years this will be the same here.
I now some wardens did throw out part filled bins, but to give them credit, many just consolidated the waste into one and put the others back.
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