The 1pm arrival message getting through
Comments
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Outfits having to "go round the block" is always going to be problematic as they are not the most nimble of vehicles. I'm not sure that lay-bys are a real solution. During my travels, I'm surprised at the number that are coned off and for no apparent reason.
To a large degree, this issue is one of CAMC's own making. If the criteria was "is there an empty pitch" the 1pm, or any other arbitrary time, rule which artificially creates a queue could be dispensed with. Time to 'think outside the box' rather than "we've always done it this way"?
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Although I do agree with you, my experience of some such attempts in my working life of outside box implementation frequently had little effect and often impacted negatively on all involved. The reasons for these failures were primarily caused by funding (several initiatives were covert cost cutting exercises) and the fact that negative implications were often overlooked or swept under the carpet in the planning stage. There will be many considerations, and I bet quiet a few we mere members haven’t thought of, outside that box which need recognising.
Finally, the main concern is that no matter what is in place it will be ignored by some. We currently know the arrival time yet some do their own selfish things, the real problem is these few people, not that box.
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When thought out your idea doesn't appear to be any more workable.
"is there an empty pitch" the 1pm, or any other arbitrary time, rule which artificially creates a queue could be dispensed with
I know you don't often visit, if at all, club sites, but some are often full and departure times vary, sometimes it's a nice steady flow other times it's all in the last half hour, so what happens in someone, or a few, arrives under your proposal and asks that question and the answer is no? Then it's back to being told to go around again.
It's done that way maybe for a reason?
Others posters have tried to put the blame on the club for early arrivals, we've had 'forced to arrive early' and now your interpretation. You're in effect sort of saying the police/government have only themselves to blame for people speeding as they set the limit.
The only people responsible for arriving early are those think the rules they have voluntarily agreed to abide by do not apply to them. Club sites are certain rules and procedures, if you don't like the arrival times find a site that has an earlier time?
As to being problematic, well it is being done so not that much of a problem. Of course don't arrive early and it won't be at all.
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That is obvious and what a novel idea on holiday having to get up earlier than I have to help early arrivals
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The only people responsible for arriving early are those think the rules they have voluntarily agreed to abide by do not apply to them.
+1 and a few more.
.... and those who think that trot out every excuse they can think of, then go on to apportion blame elsewhere.
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I've noticed that in this thread, and the many many others in the past around the same subject, that almost every comment is made from the point of view of a caravanner - not surprising as this is after all The Caravan Club. But caravanners are in the minority in society, so what might the thoughts of the others be concerning the implications of the "Do not be here until after 13:00 hrs" rule?
What it means to the others in society will include outfits deliberately travelling slowly on trunk roads to delay their arrival; filling up laybys needed by commercial drivers to take legally required breaks; driving repeatedly (and possibly in convoys) around and around local streets to avoid site entrances; parking in inappropriate locations such as residential areas; tailbacks at sites spilling out onto the highway and probably in both directions. If there was a campaign to have planning permission for a site refused or revoked these would be a good place to start.
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Nav, don't forget the impact it has on a local area when units arrive early and queue on the road (see the earlier pics posted by Corners). I've seen the lane outside the Hurn Lane site blocked in both directions by vans queuing to get on site. This local annoyance factor applies in both scenarios.
I'm not sure what the answer is, other than don't arrive early, but you seem to have,swung away from your earlier suggestion of lists of waiting places by now suggesting LVs will fill up lay-bys needed by others🤷♂️
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Try the M5 in the summer holidays you can experience that we are an overcrowded island with traffic problems!
(Much the same for people in Kent on the approaches to the channel ports.)Local solutions to club site approaches probably need a more local application, any type of set arrival will cause problems in some places. The blanket approach isn't always the best solution.
I don't know how much CAMC helps site managers in their often difficult task but the handwritten boards I've seen aren't perhaps as good as "official" displays.
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Laybys are a double edged sword. Caravanners, as another road user, that stop briefly in laybys are tollerated by most HGV drivers as a necessary evil. What does really upset them is motor caravans parked all night in a layby - and so often in the middle such that there is insuffient space at either end for 40' trailer plus a tractor unit.
My suggestion of The Club showing members where they might stop close to sites could perhaps reduce the usage elsewhere.
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It only means any of that if folk set out deliberately to arrive before 1pm. As has been said by myself and others, leave home or your previous site at a time that would only get you to the next site by 1pm if everything is in your favour. Even better aim for 1:30 or after
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Is it still 10 am arrivals at Park Coppice, Coniston? Receptionist in the office, new arrivals checked in, and choose a vacant pitch. It wouldn’t work everywhere but there are sites where it would.
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"Necessary evil" - really Nav? We are all as entitled to use lay-bys as the next road user. MHs overnight is a whole other issue in the context of the subject of this thread.
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Yes, really. I still have kept up my full CE entitlement and speak often with drivers.
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Then I hope you often put them straight but this is drifting away from 1pm arrivals.….
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And how would the "empty pitch"scenario work on many sites not just this club where there. are barriers and only one couple doing the many jobs that need doing daily in the morning ,before the arrivals that all should know at a set time to enable the work to be done
Arrivals at other than the now standard time of 1300 for both major pitch providers will be part of the lease agreement from the site owners on some commercial UK sites it is 1400 arrival time
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Can those who think it advisable to have free come and go on Club Sites please explain to me how it will work?
If a Club Site is full (and many will be as those of us that have recent experience know) how can allowing anyone to roll in at whatever time help, as it will be uncertain what pitches are empty, what time folks are leaving. Even with a 12 noon departure, it still won’t work. You can only have a come and go regime where there is always spare capacity, say a huge 500 pitch plus Site, but if a Site is operating at near capacity, it’s impossible. That’s why even CLs have to give some sort of leave by, don’t arrive before time, although the owners can work around much more easy.
Common sense to me🤷♀️
I am not saying I like this regimented approach, but I can understand the need. The fact that many of the Membership can’t bear the staff using some initiative and allowing early arrivals at slack times is the bone of contention for me, but as it creates such hassle and bad feeling, then best to go by a strict timetable.
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I see what you mean. If folk are allowed to rock up at any time they like, they could arrive and find no empty pitches. Then a queue could build waiting for pitches to be vacated but those leaving may find their exit from the site blocked by those waiting for pitches and chaos could ensue. Hmm, sounds rather familiar🤔
Is there any sector of the UK leisure industry that does not have arrive after/leave by times stipulated? Self catering accommodation, hotels, B&Bs all do it for obvious reasons.
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👍 Club has to have timings because the Sites are so busy. Even with timings and the incapability of some to adhere to these timings, there are problems.
I would be absolutely incandescent if I found a queue of selfish people outside my front garden, blocking access and egress for all (including emergency vehicles) all through Summer. Yet others get their knickers in a twist if staff realise the problem and disperse a queue early🤷♀️
As brue says, local conditions may well apply, especially as some of the Sites have been in locations for decades, and the local environment outside might well be quite different.
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Leisure Centres, swimming pools, they do it as well (Don’t I know😉😁)
The mayhem in some hospital Outpatient waiting areas wouldn’t be as bad if some didn’t roll up so blinking early as well, according to my Director of Nursing chum. It’s like a ruddy day out for some at times she tells me.
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I don't know what the answer is, but on sites where the access road is easily blocked, it seems to me that the site staff are sometimes left with no choice other than to allow people to book in early. It's not right and it's unfair on the staff.
We have been pretty annoyed recently to find that we've been unable to leave a site (just to go out for lunch) because of the site access road being blocked by early arrivals. Also on one occasion we were unable to get back onto the site! The site reception didn't open until 1 pm and we were stuck amongst a queue of new arrivals when we returned at 12.25!!
It seems very wrong to me that we should have to plan our days around what time we can or can't get on and off a site! We expect to work around the 1 pm arrival time queue but we don't expect to be working around a possible 11.45 to 2.45 queue! Emergency vehicles ... do these selfish people even consider that they may be blocking them too? Probably not.
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I’ve said before it puts the wardens in a near impossible situation and I’d not like to be the person making the decision whether to let an early arrival in or not. I guess that’s why warden JK posted that he and others are now turning early arrivals away regardless. Perhaps that action will help get the message across and those who currently disregard the arrival time will learn the lesson the hard way.
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But, David, you've told us often in the past that, where you go caravanning, either (a) the sites are enormous - 1000+ pitches and over 1km from entrance to your pitch (so there's a pretty fair chance that many pitches will be free, even if not pre-booked) or (b) if you find a site you don’t like, just turn around, there'll be another one nearby (so there's a pretty fair chance of being able to find somewhere at any time of day).
Neither of those scenarios are common in the UK, are they. Hence the need for all mainstream sites, club or commercial, to have set arrival and departure times.
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Yes he does, but we are talking about here and now. Here in the UK and the club rule as it stands now. It’s the blatant breaking of the rules that are my point. But let’s not forget that these selfish folk really are in the minority and we shouldn't kowtow to them as they ‘force’ early entry.
One concern I do have if much earlier arrivals are allowed hours before the departure time then there may not be pitches available or you’ll get musical pitches with folk hovering over others waiting for those better pitches to become available later on. I have witnessed that scenario very occasionally even with today’s rules when a pitch has been vacated, for whatever reason, later in the day.4
