Covid - news and views
Comments
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Yup, as I thought-thanks👍🏻
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I don’t think it’s so much ‘turning down’ as not having the staff nor the time to physically do any more than they are PD. They’re flat out now.
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I agree they are flat out, but I agree with PD. We are talking about folk with life changing / saving Operations being cancelled, due to a shortage of intensive care beds. According to some reports 80% of those beds are occupied by the unvaccinated. They have been turned down, cancelled, postponed, call it what you will, for those vital ops because of the selfish actions of anti vaccers.
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Quite apart from anti-vaxers, there is considerable pressure on the NHS, as has already been mentioned from what could be termed 'self-abusers'. Overweight causing skeletal problems and need for bariatric surgery, diabetes, alcohol and drug abuse, smoking - cancer and respiratory disease. All of the above, because of people's view that the NHS can fix my problems, will ultimately destroy the NHS as we know it.
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It seems it is not just the unvaxed on wards that is causing the stress and burnout with NHS staff as in this area it seems many have got the new variant and others are having to isolate because they have been in contact,
We are having trains and buses cancelled because of staff off,
TfL have actually closed one underground route because of staff off
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Steve-putting alternative points forward is one thing but who would support potentially killing some folk to save others. That is basically what you are saying. No one thinks the unvaccinated are good citizens but to hand them a death sentence is too much. Come up with a positive solution👍🏻
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The antivaccers are selfish,unethical,stupid people. Even worse they spread false news and prevent sensible people get their vaccines. They idirectly cause misery and death to people who have other illnesses from being treated. They unecessary fill hospital beds and put the NHS itself in danger. No one should condone or sympathise with their standpoint. The welfare of the majority trumps the rights of the individual and drastic sction should be taken when they blatantly ignore world wide proof. Vaccines work and ae the best chance of beating the disease. If that means no NHS treatment so be it , conform or suffer.
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It seems that as Cyber says some people are under the impression that no matter what self inflincted medical? problems they have ,it can be addressed and rectified by the NHS
There was a Doctor on tv yesterday who was saying some anti vaxers who had through their own fault caught the covid virus ,could just walk into the NHS and would be given a jab that would cure it ? another false bit of information ,that has been banded about on social media
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But what about the people they live with and provide for, they go without a small part of their income?
It would be fine for people like us but what about those who are on the breadline? I suppose one could suggest means testing again?
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I'm really shocked by some of the comments written here about without holding income and treatment, deciding who is worthy of it leading to who should live or die, especially by 'we' on here that have everything compared to some. It appears that Dickens got it right.
Will you decide what men shall live, what men shall die. It may be, that in the sight of Heaven, you are more worthless and less fit to live than millions like this poor man's child. Oh God. to hear the Insect on the leaf pronouncing on the too much life among his hungry brothers in the dust
I'll keep my Christmas cheer and leave you all to yours.
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well said Rocky.
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I wasn’t saying anything of the sort R2B, merely agreeing with PD’s point that there is little difference in withholding treatment from someone who hasn’t bothered to get vaccinated and those who urgently need operations for cancers. In neither case is it right and there is no way a doctor wouldn’t treat a person put in front of them in intensive care and I fully accept that is as it should be. However, on the other side of the scale the administrative side of the NHS are passing what amounts to death sentences on people who otherwise would have been dealt with much sooner. They are between a rock and a hard place and no way would I want their job.
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It seems that with the dash to get as many vaxinated as possible NHS qualified to do vaxinations are being drafted in from where ever they can (as well as military personel) which has meants many outpatient clinics are now not operating,or severly reduced ,so the waiting lists for those services will also be extended,as we have found this morning , when i managed to contact a clinic my OH was refered to as urgent back in September (no date yet)
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What is the difference between paying a contribution towards keep and having to pay for perscriptions? If the NHS can manage perscriptions, ( I believe those on benefits get releif) they can manage a hosptialisation contributions in much the same way.
peedee
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PD, state benefits, including pensions, are already affected if someone is in hospital/care for more than a few weeks.
Other than that, the NHS is geared up to providing social care along with medical care to those who need it. It's what their funding covers. Who provides the funding? Why, you and I - the patients, that's who. Yep, patients already pay.
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Steve, you're off the wall here. There is no comparison whatsoever. I'm getting angry at some of these crass remarks😖
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Probably not the best comparison but I understand some of the logic behind it. Everyone who joins the forces does so accepting that risk, they are special people in doing so and do this with an understanding that they are protecting our country, our people and our society. The individual does not know that it will be them not coming home when signing up and this may just be the strength behind that brotherhood I so admire, looking after each other for the rest of us.
These antivaxers don’t appear to have any grip or understanding of collective care and support. I guess this means they are in need of help themselves and not just beyond redemption.2 -
From the gov.uk website -
"In England, out of over one billion prescription items dispensed in 2019, close to 90% were dispensed free of charge."
(I believe that in the rest of the UK prescriptions are entirely "free"?)
For me, the time to debate whether charges should be incurred for hospitalisation (debatable) or care should be witheld for whatever reason (not an option I'd ever subscribe to) is after this awful disease has been overcome or, at least, to the time when we can "live with it". Making such decisions in the midst of these troubled times is never going to result in a "balanced and proportionate" response.
And who would want to be the medic (or more likely some management stooge) who would want to decide where the line is drawn?
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With respect TW I suggest you get angry somewhat easily. It a perfectly valid point. There is nothing crass about it. Our leaders are following exactly the same methodology at the moment, offsetting the acceptable number of deaths against damage to the economy, when deciding on future covid policy.
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Just a thought - many "older" folk are recommended to take statins to reduce the chances of stroke or a heart attack. A lot of those, according to a doctor we know well, decline either because of anxiety about side effects or simply because they consider it "unecessary". Should they be refused treatment if they suffer a stroke/heart attack?
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We are not in a military conflict/time of war, then it’s kill or be killed it’s a bad analogy SL☹️. The waiting for ops vs anti vaxxers are not at war. Both our leaders & the NHS are damned if they do damned if they don’t, they will continue as they always do but I do know when this situation is behind us there will be a World screaming out for medics & a whole generation of medics burnt out & not wanting to continue. We will all be losers.
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Actually, Steve, I am slow to anger but I find inhuman and thoughtless words hard to tolerate and if you had really meant "with respect", you would not have posted that comment.
The rest of your post is simply your view and not necessarily fact on which to base anything. You are, of course, entitled to your view but please don't assume it is the correct one.
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"However If I had been stupid enough to refuse at least I would be unlikely to harm others in the way these people potentially are."
But you might well be taking up an intensive care bed unecessarily which is what is under discussion here. Like you, I take statins, quite a high dose actually, but there is little different in principle between those who refuse medical advice, whatever their reason, I'd have thought?
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