Covid Vaccine - Temporarily locked
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All the blue light services deserve to be up there C, we run from danger & they run towards it👍🏻👏🏻
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Full +1 there Rocky
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And a lot of those will be 'frontline' folk who HAVE to work amongst Joe public, shopworkers, teachers, police, medical, posties, refuse collectors - our area has a large outbreak among postal staff and gritter drivers who are often refuse drivers.
Personally I would love these folk to be vaccinated as I wouldn't want to live without their services! We fall into the category of choosing to mix if we want to they don't.
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Current evidence strongly indicates that the single greatest risk of mortality from COVID-19 is increasing age and that the risk increases exponentially with age.
Mathematical modelling indicates that the optimal strategy for minimising future deaths or quality adjusted life year (QALY) losses is to offer vaccination to older age groups first.
These models assume an available vaccine is both safe and effective in older adults. Data also indicates that the absolute risk of mortality is higher in those over 65 years than that seen in the majority of younger adults with an underlying health condition. Accordingly, the committee’s advice prioritises based on age.
I much prefer to accept the advice of the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) than any self-interest group.
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Hope Firefighters don’t breath on all those they drag out of crushed cars, rescue from floods, all those they help stuck in baths, other similar emergencies. You’d ruddy well want one damn quick if your legs were crushed in a car smash I can tell you, or your house is flooding😡
They work in the community as well, you know, in and out of vulnerable folks homes, fitting smoke alarms, carrying out fire safety checks, ensuring events, buildings etc.... are safe. Many are driving ambulances, helping at vaccination centres
I gasp at some folks ignorance at times, honestly. (Unless of course I have got the wrong end of the stick and you are joking rather than being ignorant......🤷♀️)
If this pandemic has shown us anything, it’s about how undervalued and underpaid some very essential workers indeed have been. Country would have ground to a halt without delivery vehicle drivers, hospital cleaners, refuse collectors etc.....
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Just for those who think the firefighters only put fires out and should be low down on the list.
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What makes you think all firefighters are youngsters LLM? My BIL isn’t far off 60, he’s still front line, driving an engine, walking into danger, etc..... They have struggled at times to get a full shift on duty because so many have had symptoms. The younger ones as well.
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In Essex and Suffolk Coastguards are being used to help the ambulance staff and they're volunteers.
I know our fireman are driving ambulances to help.
I do think some folk have no idea how the public service workers are treated and paid. They assume they're on large salaries good conditions and great pensions. That has never been my experience, but there are a few who manage that as in any walk of life 😡🤬.
We'd be in a fine mess without lots of folk who hold down a fulltime job on really poor pay 😤😤😤
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Nice story JWJ but they obviously had no fires to put out!
But seriously, whoever has to decide which category should have priority over possibly equally deserving causes, you can guarantee not everyone will agree with their decision. My heirarchy of categories would be simply based on who is more likely to be in contact with a carrier on a daily basis.
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Well you're changing your tune a bit there, LLM, if you don’t mind me pointing that out. The government has chosen, rightly, to prioritise the well publicised 9 priority groups "at present". (Your words). I don't think anyone has disagreed with that. The discussion is surely about who to prioritise once those groups have been completed.
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Lets not forget the Armed Forces, they have helped out throughout the pandemic.
The majority of them having to be away from their families at a time when they are needed at home.
Working long hours doing covid testing, without all the PPE just a face mask and plastic apron.
Now they are setting up vaccination centres all around the UK
Some are now deployed into hospitals helping the NHS with the unprecedented numbers of people needing hospital care.
Will they get a Covid jab?
Lets also not forget that on Christmas Eve many soldiers were deployed to Dover to run the testing of truck drivers who were stuck at the port.
These soldiers did not spend Christmas day with their families they worked long hours, they did not complain that they couldn't travel the length and breadth of the country to see their loved ones, they just did as they were asked and got on with the job, as they always have done and always will do.
So if we are to make a list of people that SHOULD be getting a vaccination then my vote is for the Armed Forces who are helping out.
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Now that is you changing you tune. I have consistently said that we should stick to the priorities set by the Government and still say that no self-interest group should be allowed to jump the queue. If you go back to page three I even post a link to the then applicable document / list.
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Once the current priority list has been completed I'm sure others will be given the vaccine. I am also certain that the priority will be based upon the best use of available vaccine. There is no point giving it to a group that is at very low risk of serious illness or death whilst others are at greater risk. In due course the whole nation 18 years and above, will get it but it will take time. Then a new annual programme may have to started if not before.
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With respect, I suggest you re-read (or maybe read first the first time) my original post today - it's the second post on page 88 to save you time searching.
Then you diverted the discussion with -
"At present every public servant in a lower tier group that has an inoculation ahead of the queue will be depriving a person in more need of that treatment."
a statement you still haven't justified, by the way.
But, hey, we appear to agree with what is actually happening "at present" as opposed to speculation on what might not be going right.
The question remains, though, how should priorities be ordered once vaccination of the 50+ age groups have been completed?
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Yes I forgot to include them. I said to OH quite early on, that from the amount they were calling the army in for various tasks, I assumed they'd cut each solider in 2. Cos I know like all public funded services they've been parted to the bone!
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Well I'm pleased you are now agreeing with me the JCVI and the government. One thing of which you can be certain the JCVI will advise the government to continue targeting the most at risk groups first. Whether or not the government will cave in to pressure from selfish self-interest groups and do it differently is an unknown.
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Why "now agreeing with me"? I have never stated anything different so please don't try to suggest that I've only come to the light through your wisdom!
"Whether or not the government will cave in to pressure from selfish self-interest groups and do it differently is an unknown"
Not sure why you would even end with a statement like that, except to provoke some sort of reaction which is rather sad on such an important topic. Why do you suggest the government will act in any way different to the way it has up to now on vaccines? Who are these "selfish self-interest groups" you seem to be suggesting might seek to influence the authorities in some sort of underhand way? Rather paranoid, surely.
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There is certainly a point in protecting those with significant skills and experience that cannot be easily replaced. It takes years to train people like the police, the emergency services, the armed forces and medical personnel and many other key workers or front line staff - call them what you will.
These people are there to protect and help us all in society. We need them to continue that role, to be in good heath and be available as much as possible.
You posted that three of your relatives took three weeks to recover. If fully vaccinated those people I listed above would be away from their essential work for 10 days if they had to self isolate.
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+1 TG We often disagree but our respect for the armed services is one thing I do think we have in common.
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I think you are not reading my posts correctly. I suggested nothing of the sort, they may catch the virus but will not get ill and will only have to self isolate for 10 days and only be away from their essential work for ten days.
No I did not.
You posted on page 90. I did query this with you about it at the time but you did not reply or clarify what you meant:
We have had three examples in our family. Two teens 'felt a bit grotty' and one 60 year old become quite ill but fully recovered, all took over three weeks before they tested negative.
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You will notice I haven’t made any effort to determine which people should or should not have the vaccine, and in which order, simply because I am happy to go with the modelling from the scientists. All I have done is point out the work currently being done by one group of highly trained workers I considered undervalued by another poster, and your possible implication that firefighters are younger and won’t be as badly affected.
You are as in the dark as everyone else about just how an individual will be affected by Covid. Yes there are scientific trends, carefully analysed by scientists and statisticians, percentages and theories cherry picked to illustrate a chosen point by some posters. But no one can with predict with absolute certainty just how another individual will react to catching the Covid virus.
I will leave you to suggest how society will cope if certain key workers are taken out of the equation. My crystal ball is in the dishwasher tonight, having a polish. I have to predict when lockdown will end tomorrow.......
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Better a cloudy crystal than a dubious load of old soap😂
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Where do you get the idea that after having contracted the virus they only need to self isolate for 10 days before they can return to work?
Why do you understand 'all took over three weeks before they tested negative' to mean they recovered in 10 days?
In fact after the 60 year old tested positive it took about seven days for the fever to break, about another week for him to recover to a reasonable extent (he is still not 100%) and about another two weeks before he tested negative. The test was done at the insistence of T&T because his wife is a nurse in a care home and because she had also contracted the disease. Her progress was similar but less dramatic.
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