How do we proceed July onwards
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I think this is part of the problem BB. It’s the density in the cities that’s feeding the high infection rates. London is a classic case, millions all crammed into quite a small area, all sharing transport infrastructures, working in close proximity, all those high rise buildings, super busy tourist attractions, then there’s all the house shares, overcrowded family homes. It would take some serious lockdown and curfew measures to control it properly, including a ring around the main routes out to other areas, and the kind of quarantine measures that heddlo relates about Macau.
This country’s population wouldn’t stand for that, compared with other places, ours has hardly been a lockdown. We don’t have the political will, or the policing infrastructure to be able to do it, even if we would tolerate it. Too little, much too slow. And woefully underprepared and underfunded for such a scenario. ☹️
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a common policy seems sensible for travelling within a country and for border crossing.
it would also make it easier for single states to 'manage the expectations' of restless populations if the same mesage is presented (at least) europe wide.
it was mentioned on another thread/post re the Canary Islands policy of opening up travel within the individual islands first, then cross island, then Spanish travellers only and finally access to 'outside' visitors.
...presumablly closely monitoring (testing) the situation.
whether this could be applied within thenuk i dont know, there is still much feeling about cross county travelling, perhaos opening travel within counties might be a first tentative step.
always going to be a difficult one, hence the Gov not leaking any thoughts yet on how this might be managed.
the 'cake' could be cut in many different ways.
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I don't see, even with Boris back in the driving seat, how a more intense lockdown would now be conceivable. It should have been stricter in the first place, and put in place earlier. Decisions, such as the one allowing the Cheltenham Festival to go ahead now look highly questionable to put it mildly.
But we are where we are - time to look forward rather than back. The time for analysing such decisions will be when the crisis abates.
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i think other countries (France?) implemented tougher sanctions as the crisis evolved....
at first travel within the country was OK but then you had to have a 'piece of paper' (for every trip, for every day) showing the specific details and purpose of the journey.
whilst journeying back from Spain in Feb, we called in at a French village for a bite of lunch (park up quietly) and we passed a manned 'roadblock' where every car entering/leaving was being checked... except us, as we werent French and were heading home.
make no mistake, any Govt can ramp up (or down) the measures if it thinks it needs to...
Perhaps some might not think so but in this crisis, isn't any appropriate action 'conceivable'.
plenty of spare army troops available.
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"more people than ever are "walking/living amongst us"
youvve used it again....and it doesnt sound complimentary, so please explain who you mean by this....
as we dont know, it could well be others on this forum
theres still a great deal of Holier Than Thou on this forum with folk pretty quick to condemn.
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we certainly will.
the mesaage was pretty clear from Ms Patel....she wont stand for any 'nonsense'
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as i said 'plenty of troops available'
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What ministers have said at those briefings and what actually transpires are often, shall we say, not entirely in step!
Can you actually see this government saying "we got it wrong, but now we're going to get really, really strict with you"? Because I certainly can't see that happening.
BTW, I don't think I'd agree that there's any "holier than thou" on the forum, just folk expressing opinions and commenting on what's been going on.
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one thing is consistent in that the Govt had said the will will follow the science..
all the top medical 'presenters' at the briefs are mentioning the 'plateauing' of the figures, perhaps as an 'encouragement' to us all yet i dont really feel any conviction in their voices when its mentioned.
as more testing comes on stream, those infection rate figures will rise and if that happens they may have to revise things.
yesterday Wales 'explained' what exercise elements were actually allowed and its a lot tighter than most were led to believe...no problems with 'admitting' this needed to be done (folk not being sufficiently sensible.)
so, i dont think the Govt will need to 'admit' anything at all, merely that, if infection rates rise (and deaths dont start to reduce) then different actions might be appropriate.
marathon, sprint comes to mind.
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Dominic Rabb said this morning as the other countries ministers also were admitting it has been steep learning and at times still is,( although as Germany "i think we were very lucky"),every one is still learning,and mistake have been made (even Nicola admitted as much
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Yes sister and BinL in Orange have to fill in a form for every excursion to the shops. This was right from when President M announced the lockdown. They can't go together either.
In effect the lockdown has already started to lift. Initially it was more complete because firms like B&Q shut down, together with building sites, although they didn't have to if they maintained social distancing. Now they are opening up, it is resulting in lots more journeys. Some essential, to get to work. Others for DIY and gardening supplies often not so. Not that I have any intention of going near a B&Q until the novelty wears off. The queues on TV coverage look worse than the Supermarkets and the 2 metres didn't look like it was being observed. It may well demonstrate what will happen when camp sites are opened again.
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This an interesting site where up to date news appears daily.
It's the Eurppean Centre for Disease Prevention and Control
I can't think that the title of this thread will have much bearing as so many countries are affected and it's going to be a long term solution.
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We are thankful that we hadn't got as far as ordering our hoped for replacement caravan as we would not enjoy looking at it while unable to enjoy using it.
I keep wondering if travel, not least with a van, will ever be the same. We have not used club sites for more than thirty years and only use CL sites in the UK. Back in the 1980's we enjoyed club sites as frequently we found ourselves enjoying perhaps twenty acres of space with sometimes less than a dozen caravans. I imagine it was busier in July and August but we never tried the busy weeks so I don't know. Is social distancing going to become a fact of life for many years to come? If so, will club sites have to go down to say 25% of their current capacity? Should that happen then financial viability would be in question.
For the last several years almost all our travel has been in the most remote rural areas of S.W. France in September and October. On our last trip we enjoyed a 100 acre site and there was only one other couple on the site apart from ourselves. What will become of sites such as these in the years to come?
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Interesting that a number of large business, building firms, car industry, railway operators etc seem to have been given the nod to prepare for some relaxing of the lockdown measures although social distancing must remain for a long while yet.
Perhaps an announcement is imminent!
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I am fond of walking and do so everyday. The last time I checked I was also "living amongst us".
Stop using this ambiguous term and insulting ordinary folk. If you mean the section of the population that refuse to adhere to the guidelines then just say so. I call them Selfish Idiots.
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you didnt put April 1st at the top
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I don't see, even with Boris back in the driving seat, how a more intense lockdown would now be conceivable
It is well known that Johnson is very Liberal in his overall view so I can't agree with the term "Even with Boris back". He was reluctant to instigate any lockdown procedure.He will be reluctant to call up the troops but it may need that.
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saw plenty of 'ordinary folk' while on our bike ride today...
firstly... yes, 'plenty'.
ill add my anecdotal observations to this thread.
crossed A39 and had much more traffic, lots of family cars filled with (guess what?) families, going where and to see whom?
loads of cyclists on the moors/levels....yes, lots of couples, like us, taking their exercise but serveral 'groups' (friends?) of 3, 4 or 5 and one large (8 or 9) 'cycling club' all belting along together, chatting freely just inches from each other.
so, they all return to their multiple seperate houses and, if one is asymptomatic then its easy to see where that will lead us.
later, more cars emerging from village side streets with 4 or 5 occupants.
walkers seemed far more 'respectful' and were, almost exclusively, couples who seemed to understand what we were doing when it came to passing each other.
however, the car travel (and that with multiple occupants) wasnt being hidden...id have had a field day if i was a copper...
yesterday saw a Granddad carrying grandson on shoulders complaining that 'little Johnny' was far too heavy for Granddad to carry.....hmmmmm.
if stats today/tomorrow reflect what we are all seeing then the Gov has to do something about it.
"Green Phase" June 15th....in yer dreams.
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We're finding the same BB. People out walking either singularly or in twos seem so much more polite than they used to be, be they young or old, but we've noticed groups of cyclists trundling along as if there was no virus out there and we've made our views known to a neighbour who has their grown 30yo adults around to stay the night.
We're not used to seeing the Police force as a whole used to enforce restrictions of our liberty and very rarely see the armed forces on the streets. Other European countries have accepted them more easily than we would but there are a minority that can't be trusted at all in this country and I personally wouldn't baulk at more enforcement presence on the streets if that then means we bring deaths down. These deaths will have loved ones who are going to miss them and it makes me angry to see such selfish attitudes from the folks that are putting other lives at risk.
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They say on their web site to use data with caution due to retrospective additions etc. I think that's a reasonable way to look at the figures until much later when everything can be gone through in a systematic way. Same for all the charts on other more reputable reporting sites.
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Moulesy. An article in the business section in the telegraph on line by Alan Tovey, industrial editor, on 23 April, mostly about the car industry.
Main source article on 21 April on the traffic light system strategy proposed to the government by two leading UCL economists to ease out of the lockdown. Also proposed that there should be at least two critical technical components, enhanced testing and using technology to improve tracking and tracing. There has been a recent flurry of activity by the government in these areas.
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