Network Shrinkage
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Interesting thread and with the usual mix of desires re CLs. Some want at least EHU, others full fat EHUs and other preferring the basic sites. I never use anything but CLs and as many of you know, I have even moved from EHU CLs preferring to use modern tech to power my van which has been very successful. Hitch makes the point regarding ‘thousands of pounds worth ‘ of modern equipment standing idle if not on EHU. Sorry Hitch, it really isn’t like that. I use everything on board including the microwave and even an electric toaster. For those who are not willing to give non EHU a go, they will never find out what it offers. The other valid point is the 60 yr old system that CLs work under- Would I worry if there were 8 vans on site? No I wouldn’t particularly if the CL owner is happier and is likely to stay open and with the added security that extra eyes offer! I have spoken to CL owners over the past 4 years since I have been non EHU and can say that all of them are glad they didn’t go down the EHU route. They see the modern technology coming on board and are genuinely excited about it as the visitor numbers grow. They haven’t invested thousands in cables and bollards, showers, toilets or anything else- they simply offer a bit of land for me to park on for a fair price which is, in my humble opinion, the grass roots of caravanning. I never have problems booking sites now where as before, I did! There are so many reasons why CLs close. Apart from those I have mentioned- The CL owner reaches an age where they just give it up. They sell the land etc etc. 2018 beckons and this year I will be on Li Ion batteries which will be a massive leap forward regarding the power available to me. It was good before- now it will be on a different level. The EHU to me is as pointless as my hook up cable. I do really hope that CLs can be brought into the modern era by being allowed to increase the numbers on site ( controversial yes but I definitely think it needs looking at) The old adage of Use it or lose it comes to mind!
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Merve, can you explain to me what you mean by modern technology, Are you refering to a solar panel or something perhaps I have not heard of?
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I can't see where you came up with that interpretation of my post, hg. All the CL's that we've been on this trip have not raised their prices, do not appear to be considering going commercial, and seem to be doing fine, thank you very much, with full booking already for Easter and beyond in some cases.
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Harry says there used to be "around 5000" CLs . The Club website says there are now "over 2000". So those of you who say that all is well and the system is thriving are puzzling me. The world of leisure activities and holidays seems to be changing fast to me.
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For the last 2 years we have been using more CL's than club sites. We have to have EHU due to OH using a cpap machine. I don't mind paying for a good site, but avoid CL's that want to charge the same as CMC sites with basic facilities in poor repair.
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If I owned a small campsite would I join in a system which obliged me to turn away all the people people who had joined the wrong Club, and all those who were members of no Club at all, and all the people like my two daughters who can only afford a big tent ? That's 75% of my clientele turned away.
Or would I take all comers by setting up a good website with great photos and buying in as many flattering reviews as possible by offering customers a free night's stay if they submitted something complimentary to all the usual channels? Yes, buy the reviews to get going - they are vital.
It's no wonder some CLs are closing - certainly the ones in hopeless locations and the ones where the owners haven't got a clue how to run a small business.
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There are also other organisations using the 5 system now. How long before the NFU set up their system, as they provide most of the insurances to the Cl owners. If the club keeps sticking its head in the stand the decline will continue and many like me will see no reason to be a member.
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The decline could change after Brexit when (rumour has it) adequate farming subsidies will no longer be available. This might create an incentive for farmers/landowners to seek additional income, although not necessarily by affiliating themselves with a commercial 'club'.
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I'm sorry but I rarely use CT nowadays due to its Clunky performance compared to other forums. So forgive me because I am new to this thread, but to me the reason we are losing so many CL's is Quite obvious, - Its the 5 van limit! The actual season for many caravaners, is quite short, 6 months at the outside. For many CL's in the North of the Country it will be much shorter than that. 3-4 Months in reality.
So they will have perhaps on average 14 weeks in which to maximise their return, on only a maximum of 5 vans per night, although most could if allowed, accommodate several more than that.
But they will have, in many cases gone to the expense of laying on 13 amp mains power to each pitch, water and septic tank etc. The scales are heavily weighted towards LOSS!
Many will have realised that it is far better to go towards a small commercial site basis, with a significantly higher profit margin.
I have not used a club site now in over 2 years they have priced themselves out of contention as far as I am concerned. My usage is 85% CL's and 15% small commercial. I only remain a Caravan Club Member for access to CL's but at this rate, even that will not be worth while. Its very sad, but the CC seems to have totally failed to recall its original concept of inexpensive caravan holidays. Once Club sites exceeded £18 per night on average, I opted out!
TF
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I think that the 5 van limit is the maximum number before full planning permission has to be sort and then there is a NIMBY problem to overcome.
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I have only used a CL for one night in the last dozen years.
How many regularly are full? I know that the one I used was 4 years ago. However very well drained ground, 3 hardstands, excellent track metaled and then stoned by the pitches, EHU, a toilet, pleasant owner, well kept site grass, pitches well separated for £9 four years ago, just a few miles from Wellingborough and in August I am not surprised.
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Doesn’t that highlight the problem, even if the pitch price is put up to £12 per night, that’s a maximum of £60 income per day, and out of that you are offered all you listed. I can’t see how the CL owner can make any sort of reasonable money out of the CL. It’s the demand for more and more facilities that is killing CL’s imo
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We use CL's almost exclusively, throughout the year, and find that whereas some are full others do have free pitches, We tend to avoid the most popular holiday areas during peak period, when we would anticipate sites being full. We have as yet not had to pay more than £14 pn, and usually a few pound less, for sites with EHU, H/S, toilets/showers, and occasionally free WiFi.
ET, would you care to name that CL you used, as we are always on the lookout for new ones to visit?
boff, a site may be charging £12pn and if full certainly takes in £60 pn which equates to £420 per week, or £8000+ over a 20 wk period. I don't think that most CL owners are out to make a huge income from their site, but an addition to their everyday income.
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boff, a site may be charging £12pn and if full certainly takes in £60 pn which equates to £420 per week, or £8000+ over a 20 wk period. I don't think that most CL owners are out to make a huge income from their site, but an addition to their everyday income.
Your analysis doesn’t take into account the costs of installing ehu or toilets and showers. Neither does it take into account the costs of maintaining the ehu or cleaning the facilities. Add in rates. I am sure that a lot of CL owners run them as a hobby but in my opinion they are effectively subsidising you because it isn’t a serious business proposition and that a lot of actual cl’s don’t actually cover costs.
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ET, would you care to name that CL you used, as we are always on the lookout for new ones to visit?
Sandy Hill Farm
69 Park View, Moulton, Northampton, Northamptonshire, NN3 7UZAll but one reviews were good - especially mine 'As I have to be at the Alde service centre nearby before 9am and with the trip being 160 miles from home I booked in there for one night. What a lovely site. Well maintained and well spaced. I was sorry not yo have been there with my other half in which case we would definitely have stopped longer. It rained heavily overnight but the grass pitches are on a very sandy soil and water just disappeared, Everything about the site gave the impression of somebody who cares.'
The bad review stated that the £10 a night only included 10kw/h of electricity and 15p per unit afterwards. I can't comment on that as no meter reading when I was there. But at the prices I would not grumble. Pitches well laid out. Even if not using one of the three hardstands the name of the site gives a good clue to ground conditions. When I was there they were building some of the houses spoken of in the last review. To see them though you had to walk well away from the pitching area. There was one spotless WC and hand basin in a brick building.
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Me neither ET. We would be happy to pay £12 for a site with EHU, and possibly H/S, but nothing else for that.
Thanks for the info on Sandy Hill Farm, I'll certainly add it to our list of ones to consider should we head that way. Definitely one for the summer months, at £10pn.
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Instead of having motorhomes along the sea front on Queens Drive, six weeks ago Exmouth council approved the settng up of 70 Motorhome pitches for up to three nights in car parks in the town.
So how many CLs in the area will thrive? And as the number of motorhomes increase and other councils follow the lead of Exmouth the shrinkage of CLs in other places will inevitably continue.
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I do not expect or tend to use hardstandings. I much prefer grass and within reason can level my caravan on most sloping ground.
I have been caravanning for about 40 years and love the freedom of it, although do very much appreciate the facilities that a modern caravan offers. I hate with a passion the extreme regimentation that crept into the Caravan Club a few years ago, which led to serried ranks of caravans, and wardens that had an attack of the vapours if anyone wanted to pitch across the pitch Continental fashion.
It was that and the rapid increase of club site prices that decided me to adopt a policy of only using CL's and small commercial sites at the expense of using CC Club sites. I don't think I have exceeded £15 per night ever since and usually £12-14 is the norm.
I think that many new members to caravanning have the erroneous impression that CL's are very basic. It is true that that was once the case, but today they have stepped up to the plate and modernised themselves. Most now offer UHU's and many offer individual water taps to each pitch. Toilets are appearing, and the grassy areas now usually mowed to a high standard. One CL in Kelgetty Pembrokeshire, even provided, tea Coffee and biscuits on arrival to refresh us from our journey prior to erecting our awning!
At 73 now, my caravanning days are limited, but I still appreciate the freedom that it offers, I will never return to the regimentation of club sites, or recognise the new walls ice cream CC logo!
TF
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Like you Tigerfish. This could be our last touring year ( Old age catches up)) and whilst the shrinkage in Cls will not unduly affect us I fear the future is bleak. The 5 rule will prove to be the most decisive factor as that number is not finacially viable for anyone considering EHU and H/s which is a basic for most users on a year round basis. There could be a lovely M/H for sale later this year, much as I regret having to take that decision.
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Our sentiments exactly.
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On the other hand, I know of a CL that has masses of space and could easily accommodate 20+ units. Because of motorhomes parking up on the seafront awaiting the ferries, according to the CL owner the council has turned a very blind eye if more than 5 units are on the CL. This 'arrangement' obviously seems to suit everyone.
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So why doesn’t the CL owner seek planning permission and convert his CL into a full blown commercial site if the demand is there? Instead, he risks losing his current exemption and losing the club it’s right granted by Natural England to issue exemption certificates, as well as the Council being on very shaky ground by exceeding its authority. The right to breach the regs is not within their remit.
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Indeed, why bother at all if you don’t care that the club could lose its right to issue exemption certificates. After all, none of us ever use CLs so it wouldn’t matter in the least.
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I think that one of the reasons that CL owners don't want become small full blown commercial sites as they would loose the free advertising to a huge number of potential visitors, ie CC members, . They would then have to pay for advertisements in web sites such as UKcamping.
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I have used a site which until last year was a CL, now they have become a small commercial site with a max of 10 units, they advertise for free on facebook by setting up their own page and by all accounts are full on weekends even at this time of year, summer months full for most of the time.
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Would you like to share SELL, always interested in new places to try.
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