CL Sites
Hi, we've just opened a CL site in Gotherington, just outside Cheltenham. We've had a few Caravan holidays in the past but nothing recently so feel we're a bit out of touch!
We were just wondering what do people look for in a CL site. Do you go for the area first or do you look for hard standing and water/electric hook ups? Do you look for sites with lots of walks or fishing near by or on-site, or do you even prefer a field in the middle of nowhere!!
I know everyone has different ideas on what they're looking for and we cannot please everybody but it's nice to have some idea.
Thanks
Comments
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Location is everything for us.
If a CL is where I want to be then I can cope with most things at the right price
I'm not interested in walks or fishing and would hate to be on a field in the middle of nowhere but I think it's quite easy to spot those features on a map I'd far rather see a listing with distances to places of interest, nearby towns, etc.
My site search starts with 'I want to see X, where's a nearby site?'
Every site has a walk to somewhere. Every site must have something special that other sites don't have. That's what I look for
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Much as JayEss describes above, we choose area/ location first, based upon what might be of interest to us, in terms of places to visit, things to see and do.
The basics are essential, water, waste, most would include Ehu in basics category nowadays. After that we like a tidy, cared for looking Site, that is peaceful and quiet most of the time. If you are an all year site, HS would probably help keep visitor numbers up in colder, damper months. Decent wifi would be an added bonus.
After that, personal requirement for us is a decent safe dog walk, either as part of Site, or access straight to local footpaths. If you choose dog free, then obviously not required.
Anything else as far as we are concerned is a luxury, loos, showers, laundry, play equipment, picnic tables, serviced pitches, on site tea rooms, fishing ponds, petting zoo, riding school, you name it, we have used it!
Pitching your price will depend upon what you provide, and the popularity of the location. You can have the best CL in the world, but if the location isn't up to much, could still struggle.
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Our choice is based on location firstly. Proximity to town/village and public transport can come into the equation. EHU is a plus but we can manage without as is shower and WC. Information on the nearest shop/village/town/bus stop in yards or miles it a fantastic bonus and whether it's by footpaths or roadway.
As a motorhome we're looking at firm ground and are happy to be on grass unless it's really soggy. Short grass and collected clippings are extremely welcome along with some info about things locally. Wifi is a great bonus and a comment about mobile phone and TV reception is helpful.
One CL site we use locally has laminated circular walks from the site for guests to borrow.
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When looking for a CL in an area we want to visit, our wish list includes.......
Booking via e mail or website.
Easy access as we have a large twin axle.
Quiet location away from road noise.
EHU as we have no solar panel.
Hardstanding of some type, with easy access, reasonably level.
Water, waste and chemical disposal points nearby and well signed.
Info on mobile reception in the site details.
WC is preferable but not essential.
Free wifi would be a bonus.
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We are 95% CL users in the UK and location is always first with us. In order of preference but not set in concrete are.
Location
EHU
Grass or hardstanding but mown grass not picked up is an annoyance
Walks/footpaths from or near site
We eat out a lot (after all we are on holiday) so a pub or two nearby
WC and/or shower is a bonus
Oh and don't repost in the correct section as it may create a duplicate and the forum software goes bananas, a Mod will more than likely move it
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Looking at your listing on the CC's web page you seem to have a lot right already. I think that Kjell has highlighted the main points that would also attract us. We do like the ability to walk our dog on quiet lanes or footpaths from the site. A web page would be a welcome addition to yours, I think.
As it happens we are looking to come and visit you at the end of the month, hopefully for a week, when we've fixed up our dates.
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I have moved this thread to the CL section and locked the newer thread as it does not have as much information as this one.
David
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Location, location, location. Views and peace. Not worried about a bit of long grass (it soon flattens out) or whether it's been picked up, we carry a small lightweight plastic rake. Not that keen on manicured lawns & potted plants. Only during the winter months would we be looking for a hard standing & EHU. Best wishes.
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Looking good Pardon Hill Farm! Our kind of CL, you have some lovely reviews already. Wishing you all the best, you will be on our list for the future!
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I would add that "security" is very important to us. A site needs to be too intimidating for the drive/ cycle past theft to "look in", so a remote site right by a road is now a "no-no", we know what has happened using such a site.
Far better set away from the road with access only past ideally the owners dwelling or place of activity. Bridleways and other public rights of way directly through the site is another worry.
It is nice to go out for the day when a site has low occupancy confident the van will not be broken into by an opportunity seeking thief.
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Will let you know in November. We're booked in there for a week at the beginning of the month. Hope that it lives up to it's reviews.
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Area first. Are you open all year. Arrival times. Hard standing and EHU essential. Nothing else really matters. Price of course as we see some very unreasonable pricing now. Trust you are in the new CL section by now as booklet will be years appearing.
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Fisherman - although this has been debated before, can you enlighten me by what you mean 'unreasonable'? If I recall correctly, you look for EHU and H/S and a WC?
I'm not aware of many CL's charging more than £20 for a pitch and I feel that if a CL is providing EHU or WC or H/S and charging less than £10 they are very likely making a loss and will eventually decide to close.
In my opinion, a well-run CL in a reasonable location with level h/s, a clean WC and EHU should be charging at least £20 (in the Season) in order to cover their costs. This is still less than many commercial or Club sites.
I now have some fairly robust data that might enlighten you (and others) on the real costs of running a CL. This data is taken from at least half a dozen CL's across the country who have been good enough to share their costs with me.
Taking just one example, if you (like most) CL visitors expect the grass on a CL to be kept mown nicely, then the cost of running a decent ride-on mower (taking into account fuel, servicing and 10-year depreciation on a £5K investment) is around £800-£1000 per year. And that's not counting the time taken by the owner to actually mow the CL.
Here at Cholsey Grange, I am just considering adding Hardstandings, but the cost @ circa £10,000 to provide decent-sized level H/S with an access road suitable for motorhomers (I have had to pull two off this week during my 'work time') will take a fair few years to pay back. The quotes may come in at less than £10K, but I'd be surprised if they are less than £6K.
If CL's are to remain a viable part of the CAMC Network, and be run to the expectations that most CT contributors expect (ie, a warm welcome, clean & tidy, good signage, local information, honest descriptions, photos on the CAMC pages etc. etc.) they must surely want to cover their costs, their time and make a few bob to make it worthwhile.
Do join me at the AGM in Birmingham this Saturday to meet myself and some other CL owners. Alternatively, come and stay here at Cholsey Grange and I'll happily discuss this further over a pint! You can book online for next year!
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In my opinion, a well-run CL in a reasonable location with level h/s, a clean WC and EHU should be charging at least £20 (in the Season) in order to cover their costs.
How is it then that an award winning CL, in an area of natural beauty that has H/S, a drinking water tap at each pitch & EHU, are able to charge this year just £11 pn, and next year, when there will also be drains at each pitch too intend to charge £12? Surely this is the sort of standard that other CL's should be aiming for.
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I'm with Cholsey. Sites that provide everything and charge nothing are either doing it because they enjoy it and money is secondary, or they will find out in a year or two that they aren't making any money.
Having said which, I'm always surprised by the amount that CMC main sites charge and get away with !
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Getting back to the OP's question:
- Location, not just geographical, but a dining pub or 2 in walking distance is a big plus
- Toilet (her indoors insists!)
- No need for a shower (our onboard shower is fine) or kids facilities
- No need for hardstanding (we only caravan when the clock is +1 and over that period are happy to take our chances if it is muddy)
- EHU not essential but a +
- Most owners are friendly - the few that aren't we don't go back.
- Dog friendly - very important!
- Cost is secondary
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Well Nellie, I don't know which specific CL you are talking about, but perhaps they have paid off the investment that they made many years ago on the infrastructure and are merely running the CL as a hobby.
On the other hand, they may simply not be looking in any detail at the true costs in terms of running the CL or the time they invest in it. Many small businesses (not just CL's) don't carry out a proper cost analysis.
There are clearly a number of CL's that simply run on a 'break-even' basis as a retirement hobby for the owner, but in my opinion, they will decline in number as time passes and in 10-20 years they may not exist.
I, like many other CL's run Cholsey Grange (in an AONB) on a business-like basis for profit (minus what HMRC take as VAT)..
We have high occupancy, a high level of customer satisfaction and I'll continue to charge £16 which is £13.33 Net of VAT.
It might not suit some, but I think that as customer expectations continue to rise, CL's will have to 'move with the times' and deliver the requirements that the majority of Members expect.
If you want to see what a small commercial site can charge for delivering a truly premium service take a look at http://www.conciergecamping.co.uk/ This site is now expanding due to customer demand. This may be extreme, but it shows what some people are prepared to pay.
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IMHO a "full fat" CL that charges more than £15-17 is unlikely to get a lot of trade, especially out of high season unless the location is one of those real honeypot destinations. CL's that 'gild the lily' will, I suspect, struggle to get a return on investment. Personally my target price for a CL with EHU would be in the £12-15 range and sub £10 if a basic one offering only a space in a field.
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Stayed on a CL with views over the south downs, lovely full facility site, charge now gone from £25 to £27.50/night, and they don't have a problem attracting customers. Just check their web site Bow Hill Farm, looked at availability and of course its full.
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Are there two points of view? The site owner - who wants to increase profitability, and the visitor - who has any number of idiosyncratic things on his wish list.
The site owners I know who have gone down the profitability path have broken free from the five van CL / members only straitjacket, have expanded their business and used their land to better effect. Some now haven a dozen pitches and some have twenty, and those with space and/or unused buildings are making good money from caravan storage as well.
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ET
I am sure lots of campsites started out as CL's and a bit like Topsy grew into full sites. However if a site wants to change from being a CL with relatively few, if any, planning obstacles they have to become part of the planning process if they want to expand. For some that might just be a process too far? From a personal point of view if any CL wants to follow that process good luck to them as it's good to have as much choice as possible. I know many disagree but I do wonder if the current restriction of 5 units is not helping the situation and I would have thought doubling it to ten might encourage more people to open a CL as it would give a greater opportunity for a better income stream?
David
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Taking just one example, if you (like most) CL visitors expect the grass on a CL to be kept mown nicely, then the cost of running a decent ride-on mower (taking into account fuel, servicing and 10-year depreciation on a £5K investment) is around £800-£1000 per year. And that's not counting the time taken by the owner to actually mow the CL.
I only want my pitch cut and that could be done with a push mower, anything other boys toys is yours to finance
Personally other than my pitch I love to see meadow.0 -
Well Nellie, I don't know which specific CL you are talking about, but perhaps they have paid off the investment that they made many years ago on the infrastructure and are merely running the CL as a hobby.
The site I was talking about is a relatively new one in the list, and the owners are definitely not just running the site as a hobby, nor were they retirees. I would imagine that their idea is that if they keep their price lowish they will attract many more visitors than dearer sites in the area and that these will become regulars to the site. That certainly seemed the case when we were there at the end of September ....the site was full and 3 of those were returnees.
I agree with CY on the price range that we will consider for our stays, and we use CLs a lot, somewhere in the region of 200 nights a year.
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Is Bow Hill Farm really full up until the middle of March or are the dates just blanked off? There are a couple of bookings for school holidays next summer, as might be expected but it doesn't look 'that' popular.
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