Cancelling a CL booking at short notice.
I recently posted in the last minute availability section about a member cancelling a 25 night booking on my CL two days before he was due to arrive and there has also been a tremendous amount of discussion around this subject in the CL owners group.
With this in mind I’d be interested in what Members who regularly visit CL’s think is the right practice - if and when they have to cancel a confirmed CL booking at short notice - or have to depart early during their stay.
One award-winning CL has the following policy on their website...
"If a pre-booked stay with us is cancelled at short notice, ( "within 7 days of the pre-booked arrival date" ) or terminated prematurely during your stay without sufficient warning, before the arranged departure date, ("for whatever reason" and especially the weather) we reserve the right to charge the full rate for each night of un-attendance for the pitch, for which we have made a loyal commitment in your name. Also, no refund for the period of un-attendance will be given.
IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU GIVE US PLENTY OF NOTICE IF YOU CAN-NOT, OR DO NOT INTEND TO COME ON YOUR PRE-BOOKED DAY OF ARRIVAL.
We do not tolerate "No Shows" as they waste our time, and most importantly they deprive our loyal clients from having time with us.
We make a record of "No Shows" for future booking attempts, who may be asked to pay the full amount at the time of booking, or even declined."
Do CT members feel this is an extreme policy or is it a fair one?
Is there any established Club policy surrounding last minute cancellations? If not, do you think there should be one developed by the Club?
All comments and view points most welcome! 
Nicola
www.skybarnfarm.co.uk
Telephone: 01522 681218
Email: enquiries@skybarnfarm.co.uk
Site 365, page 402 of the 2017/2018 Sites Directory
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Comments
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It doesn't sound too unreasonable to me, Nicola. I have two thoughts - 1) I don't think a CL owner should hold on to site fees if he/she subsequently re-lets a pitch, and 2) extracting payment is unenforceable in the case of those who have not paid upfront unless the CL owner is prepared to enter into lengthy correspondence and resort to legal action, so those are empty words.
You'll find the club's cancellation policy by following the link below. There is no financial penalty as, again, it would be unenforceable.
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I can understand the sentiment of the policy, but do not see how they could enforce the charging of the full price for the days of un-attendance, unless they ask for the full cost of the stay before arrival. If that's the case I can see that some members will not book the site and so the owners could well loose out on potential bookings. I agree that those that cannot turn up for should supply the site owners with as much notice as possible. I don't believe that the CC has a policy on last minute cancellations apart from a "rap on the knuckles" e-mail unless it becomes a regular occurrence by a specific member.
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I personally have no issue with any of it as I'd not let anyone suffer any financial hardship on my account. I happily pay up front-in full. I would expect the CL to reimburse me for any dates filled. Trust is what it's about. I do see Tinny's point about getting money from folk who let you down. To most the wording is aggressive, but to honest folk who are honourable it won't worry them.
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Had to cancel at short notice (48hrs) a 2 day stay last month. I had paid up front, didn't expect a refund and didn't get one, owner never even mentioned that they wouldn't refund. Will I book there again, can't say for sure.
Another occassion on a different site said they would refund 1 day and keep 1 days fee. I will definitely stay at their site again.
PS I think the policy quoted is a bit harsh as circumstances like ill health, death, breakdowns etc are a reality in life. Perhaps the refund should be considered on an individual basis. I probably wouldn't visit a CL who demanded the full fee upfront.
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. I would expect the CL to reimburse me for any dates filled....
How would you know? Having had my fingers burnt once when I lost a deposit, paid for months before hand & cancelled very soon afterwards, I just phone a CL a few days before my stay. If they're full, there'll be another nearby that's not.
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That's the-'trust' bit MM. I trust folk to do the right thing as do I. If I find out I'm cheated in any way I will then not use them again. I see it as a learning curve. I've not been let down, nor have I let down others yet. I left 1 day early in 2015 at a CL, I was offered the day's cost as a refund, I declined. I've used them since-'trust'
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When we had to cancel a week booking at 24hours notice because of a breakdown we voluntarily sent a payment of two nights fees. We felt that was adequate in view of the fact we wouldn't be using the electric etc. In cases of a longer stay being booked I don't understand why a deposit isn't taken. You would have to pay at other holiday accomodation.
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I don't have a problem with rules pointed out by the OP but it does seem rather over the top to administer. Surely it is easier for a CL owner to charge a none refundable deposit per booking or in the case of a short stay booking, insist that it is paid for on booking.
peedee
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I booked a week at a cottage through an agency - the owner chose to let the agency handle all her bookings to avoid risk to her . The agency procedures were very smart - payment was required in full six weeks in advance - "click here to pay by card, click here if you wish to take out insurance in case you have to cancel". I was able to decline that as I had an annual travel insurance in place.
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Agree with it in principle but an aggressively worded clause like that would have me looking elsewhere anyway, not because I might not turn up but just comes across as not a very friendly site/owner.
On a personal note I am a 100% turn up customer so far, and believe once a booking is made it is my duty to fulfill it or recompense the owner.
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Such behaviour will prompt CL owners to, understandably, insist on deposits/full payment for short stops. Early departures puzzle me a bit though as it is general practice to pay balance/in full for stay upon arrival. The CL owner therefore has control over whether a refund is appropriate.
Both parties to the transaction should act with integrity. When I rented out my Spanish apartment, I took a deposit on booking with the balance repayable six weeks before arrival. Short notice cancellations deprive CL owners of income upon which they may rely. How would members feel if they were laid off for a week without warning and resultant loss of income?
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Touch wood never had to cancel thus far but life happens. If I had to cancel especially at short notice I would expect to offer some if not all of the cost, as others have said unless my pitch can be re-let, and yes that's trust. We book long haul flights up to 11 months in advance pay at the time. Same if you book holidays generally all paid at least 6 weeks before you go.
I find it amazing that folks who spent thousands on their car/caravan/motorhome will bulk at a few pounds deposit or the full cost before arrival. Maybe if they put the boot on the other foot?
All that said I think the wording would need to be gentle and enforce the fact that is a popular site that has limited numbers and some people think it's OK to let you down. It wouldn't put me off or make me think I wouldn't get a warm welcome if it was worded sensitively. Choosing careful wording could be fun as if you state others may miss out on a pitch you're inviting misinterpretation 😉. If someone was booking a lengthy stay, such as your 25 nights, I think upfront payment is fully justified.
Ps many bank accounts offer 'free' travel insurance so folks may well have cover anyway 😉
Edit I too don't understand lack of payment for leaving early. As Cyberyacht I would have thought payment very soon after arrival leaves site owner in control
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That trust word again MM. I have no issues with trusting folk. My default position is-'they're trustworthy' it's not failed me yet
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For the first time we recently had to cancel a 4 day booking at a CL 2 days before we were due to arrive. We'd already paid a deposit and emailed to say we wouldn't be coming. The owner replied promptly thanking us for letting him know but asking, since the pitch was unlikely to be relet for the payment of the balance in full which we entirely understood and sent.
I think that's a more positive route for CL owners and if members do not respond appropriately they ought to be able to rely on the club to back them up in some way.
However, we would think at least twice about advance booking for a site with a stated policy like this - we'd look for alternatives n the area.
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Eurotraveller - you raise an excellent point. If you have to cancel for a genuine reason such as breakdown or ill health any costs (including deposits for accommodation - and that includes a stay at a CL) should be covered by the relevant Insurance Policy.
I wonder how many Members have travel insurance policy in place and if so, if anyone has ever claimed against it to cover a lost deposit at a CL. In many circumstances the deposit would be less than £50, but for a 2 or 3 week stay (as Nicola had) it would be worth making a claim.
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Nicola, your policy wouldn't bother me at all. However if I were running a CL I would take a deposit for all stays unless booked at very short notice and I would make the deposit substantial e.g 50% of the total cost. One thing I would do however (maybe you do) is make sure that deposits and indeed final payment can be paid by electronic funds transfer - we will not stay on sites that insist on cheques in the post etc.
The early leaver problem I would deal with by insisting final payment on arrival.
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The payment over the phone is far superior to any other(IMO) I prefer it. Using Paypal is also a boon, one touch & it's sorted
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I can't say that I agree with the overall view, which seems to be the money should be paid. My understanding is the CL network is available as part of the CAMC package. Surely therefore the same rules should apply, which is cancel with more than 72 hours notice is acceptable, and cancelling within 72 hours may result in contact from the club. CL owners are happy to link themselves to the CAMC, with the resultant bookings, must also accept the potential downside. If they don't then they must surely look elsewhere for promotion of their site. I do believe that the CAMC 72 hour rule, paying on arrival, is one of the reasons many people stay with the club. I also think that the suggested wording is hopelessly wrong, aggressive and plainly unworkable. Being nice will always get you further in the long run, and a business is always about the future, never the immediate or the past. Someone said that the wording would just put them off booking and that is something I agree with.
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There's a world of difference between a small business person operating a CL and the massive size and resources of the club.
The club does little to back CL owners and they're very much on their own. Therefore, they have to fend for themselves in the best way they can.
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+1, it's a use it or lose it resource is the CL. I would've thought that no one goes into supplying pitches on a CL because they want to be rich. They mostly see a small return at best. To actually then expect them to initiate a system detrimental to their very survival is short sighted bordering on unfair. I want the choice of using CL's around the Country & will do my utmost to ensure I put no obstacles in their way to continue offering me that pleasure.
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All it takes is a bit of reasonable behaviour and understanding of the site owner's position as you appreciate, Rocky.
I totally understand why CL owners ask for deposits or payment up front and all I ask is an efficient electronic method of payment. I'm actually surprised if they don't ask for something up front and I'd never expect a refund if I cancelled at short notice whatever the reason. Why should I expect a CL owner to bear any financial loss due to my misfortune?
How many people in CAMC would be willing to operate a CL on the same booking/cancellation basis as the club operates its own sites? Very few I think.
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But the point is, which option is detrimental to their survival. changing to a deposit in advance system, or staying as is.
If you went into a shop and a sign behind the checkouts said, ' please note that we will not refund a purchased item if you change your mind ' would that sign make you more or less likely to buy something. In my opinion less likely. I view the pay in advance option, as potentially being an overall reducer of visits in the long term. After all, those who are happy would pay in advance, but they would have been happy and turned up or paid anyway. It's the people who like the flexibility that may decide to look elsewhere, after all the whole point of having wheels on the van ......
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Does that suggest your version of flexibility is booking and then not turning up, Onepjg?
True flexibility is turning up on spec or booking only a day or so before. If you did that, what possible reason could you have for objecting to an advance payment of some sort?
I'm sure CL owners will happily do without bookings from people who aren't committed to taking them up.
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TW - That was a bit of a leap from my post to yours !!
The OP asked
'Do CT members feel this is an extreme policy or is it a fair one?
Is there any established Club policy surrounding last minute cancellations? If not, do you think there should be one developed by the Club?
All comments and view points most welcome! '
This suggests to me that they are aware that the change of policy could have a negative effect on their business, and are therefore canvassing their customers before making a decision.
Don't turn it into
'Does that suggest your version of flexibility is booking and then not turning up, Onepjg? '
All I'm saying is that the USP ( unique selling point ) of CL's is the flexibility, and personally I would be wary of dropping it.
The OP wants as many bookings as possible each year. As I said in my first post, if a change of policy leads to the deposit customers still coming, but some of the flexible customers choosing other places, then they are worse off than now when probably the majority of people arrive, but occasionally some don't.
I actually suspect the OP is more interested in hearing the negatives
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No leap at all, Onepjg. The implication is clear in your words.
Bear in mind, too, that your version of the CLs USP (yes, I know what it means) is not everyone's. Most seem to prefer CLs for peace, economy, lack of size, friendliness..... but I've never heard flexibility mentioned.
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'but I've never heard flexibility mentioned. '
I'm surprised about that, after all i just mentioned it !!
TW - let's agree to disagree and not descend into two people bickering on CT.
OP - It's a tough call and there's no right or wrong, but decide at the end of a financial year, when you have the facts and figures, not when you have just been let down. Remember there are 52 weeks in every financial year, and throughout them you will have good and bad times, quiet and busy times, good and bad weather, roadworks, no shows .... the list goes on
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Onepjg, I think we can agree that you're against having to pay up front as you want flexibility (whatever that means to you), whereas I can see the CL owners' point of view and have no objection.
Those are the only points of interest to Nicola.
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Last summer we gave up on a beautiful CL in Scotland due to the weather (wimps!) - we set off for home 2 days early and I wouldn't have dreamed of not paying the full amount.
Re the cancellation of a 25 day stay with hardly any notice - totally think the owner should have asked for a decent deposit beforehand and I would have happily paid - and lost the deposit even with a really good reason! At £15 a night that is best part of £400 of revenue lost.
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Excellent post , I wouldn't have any issues what so ever .👍
Some CMC members have constantly been banging on about how deposits would stop no shows & people making excessive booking , perhaps deposits & a similar attitude to future booking would kill off this talk once & for all. 🙊🙉🙈
CL' & club sites alike .
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