Refillable Gas Systems
Comments
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If, like me, you are always on EHU, caravan in UK and use little gas I see no advantage in Safefill David. I am away 120 nights and probably use around 6kg a year at most. For me the smaller 3.9kg bottle is easier to use than the Calor lights being not much different in weight and less bulky.
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In 25 years we never used as much as one full cylinder in a year except when we had two very small cylinders and would sometimes start to use the second one. I would guess this applies to a very large percentage of caravanners and Motorhome users. For the very small minority that use a lot because of winter use etc. then it makes sense to have a refillable system.
Even though we don't use much gas, the built-in LPG tank on our Autosleeper is a great convenience. No need to worry about a cylinder running out (LED display in the cab) and no need to isolate the supply when moving off. When we stop, the fridge switches automatically to gas. Great in hot climates.
Our nearest filling station is at an Asda station, about 4 miles away, and I go there once a year and top up. Cost about £2 last time I went which was after 4 weeks away.
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2 cylinders is always a good idea David. I notice a post from Boff on the other thread that he picked up a SF cylinder off eBay for £105. Still not cheap but sooo worth it. If like hitch you don't use much gas then don't get one but you are a Cadac champion and I would imagine that you use enough gas to justify one.
Pippah, I can't say too much but I am in contact with SF virtually on a daily basis and I can tell you that things are moving forward at a good pace. Mine and others emails seem to have jerked some of these large concerns into action regarding supplying gas to Safefill customers. If you haven't sent an email to Shell or Morrisons or anyone else you can think of, send one!! Safefill have been trying for two years and they are the makers but now that customers are asking why they haven't pulled their finger out, it's a different ball game. I have just had a call from Morrisons customer services. Suddenly, they are listening! We will be able to fill our Safefills anywhere soon- I'm convinced of it, The battle has been won, now the war has to be won too- we need the troops- get those emails away!,
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Thanks for all info and awareness re this guys and girls. Couple more questions on my part and sorry not clued up wrt gas.....am I wrong in assuming it is the same type of gas as in calor lite ? propane thus nil difference wrt freezing point......Scottish winter caravanner -14 our record.
Also anybody got experience obtaining refill point in Scotland Central and Highlands?
A
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Our nearest filling station is at an Asda station, about 4 miles away, and I go there once a year and top up. Cost about £2 last time I went which was after 4 weeks away.
That is my great concern and perhaps Merve can reassure us....!!
I cannot justify the cost of a Safefill cylinder based on my current useage. However if when the new lightweight cylinder is announced and rolled out by Calor it is not swapped like for like with empty Calorlites, I am not prepared to pay a new cylinder rental agreement on principle and would prefer to put the money towards a Safefill cylinder.
However I have two concerns and Hitches post highlights one of them perfectly....
My local Asda has only one LPG pump and I think it is about two years since I last saw anyone filling a vehicle up at the pump. I understand sales of new LPG cars have stopped and even conversions have dried up. On that basis how long will petrol station forecourts continue to have an LPG pump (Hitches £2 a year is not going to make that viable...
). I read on here BP have removed LPG pumps from their forecourts, how long before the other big retailers do as well? If I've got to go poking around farmers markets and the like for a few quids worth of gas, especially up in Scotland, thats not very appealing....My second concern is that a Safefill bottle requires some sort of maintenance or recertification at 10 years old. So I can factor that into my calculations/plans, does anyone know whats involved with that and crucially, how much it costs...??
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If I were running a petrol station with LPG pumps no way would I permit the filling of any bottles after doing an assessment of risk and profitability.
Safefill may be perfectly safe indeed but how can my cashier behind the desk be certain that it is a safefill being filled and not a diy lashup?
Unless there were a large number wanting to take significant amounts of gas why should I put the responsibility on my cashier in order to add a pittance to the stations income?
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These are points I have raised time and again that refillable are only viable if you use enough gas and there are places to fill them conveniently and enough people use LPG to warrant a garage stocking it.
I suspect many main road service area type stockists are forced to hold LPG but the likes of ASDA et al are not.
I wonder if Calor will make a foray into refillable when they replace the calor lite, then they would just have to install large tanks at their stockists to allow people to refill now that would be a revolution.
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I doubt that Calor will bring out a refillable simply because they have millions tied up in rental cylinders and the revenue is immense . There already is a revolution going on- it's called Safefill and it's revolutionised the LPG industry by giving people a choice between hugely expensive rental or filling your own cylinder for 25% of the cost
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Yes Ally you are correct it's propane for Safefill same as calor and others red bottles and the same as cars that have LPG fuelling them. The only change I made was to a stainless steel pigtail to make sure no bits of rubber mess up the system. When I changed over I had had three if not four faulty pigtails in a very short space of time. Added advantage is it has a no spanner fitting too at the cylinder end so easier than ever to undo to go for a refill.
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Today, the 22nd of August, there is a meeting this afternoon between Safefill and Morrisons. This should , if there is any justice, be the start of a new era for refillables. Although all safety issues are now laid to rest with the inclusion of Safefill in the Red Guide, I went to the UKLPG website this morning and STILL, the old sheet 26 is showing even though UKLPG has promised to rewrite it to include properly constructed user owned cylinders! Can I ask all interested parties to get a strongly worded email off to UKLPG to get them to pull their finger out please. It can't be that difficult or time consuming to put an injustice such as this, right. Thanks. Public pressure will help add weight to remove this log jam we have. We are getting there, let's get there faster.
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To make it easier- mail@uklpg.org
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Hi Pippah, I am sure it was at the time when Safefill was passed into the Red Guide which must have been a month ago at least- the 22nd rings some sort of a bell but that may be the day I got the email from SF so it was a couple of days before that. Even so, a month is more than enough to get sorted out and put an addendum on the sheet!! I could do it in an evening! Sorry I've been some time getting back to you but awnings have to be taken down while it's dry!!
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Went to Jackson this afternoon and at the checkout ( total cost 99p!!) I asked the lady at the cashdesk if the uptake of Safefill had increased. She answered 'Massively'! She put it partly down to the withdrawal of the CalorvLites from circulation. I think you will find that Calor will bring out a composite cylinder made by the same manufacturer as Safefill for the weight issue, but they will be rental cylinders- what else?? It'll be interesting to see what they do.
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Rivetting in fact.
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Just had the following reply from UKLPG.
Many thanks for your email.
User Information Sheet (UIS) 26 is published by UKLPG for forecourt operators re their legal duties. Neither UIS 26 nor the Red Guide prohibit the filling of cylinders and it is the responsibility of the duty holder (i.e. the forecourt operator) to have their own policy and procedures in place should they decide to permit the filling of cylinders.
So it would appear to still be down to individual filling stations/companies
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- No news on the Morrisons front yet- keep praying.
- I had the same email from UKLPG and am formulating a reply. The Sheet 26 you are looking at was revised in July 16. An awful lot has happened since then!! This is still the old 26 and will, in some cases, convince the forecourt owner that he must not allow 'customers or untrained staff' to fill cylinders! I didn't notice queues of car drivers waiting for training courses when they started filling up there gas converted cars!! This is just delaying tactics for political and profit reasons. There are those that are still trying to kill off Safefill. They haven't realised that the battle is lost but, they will carry on fighting as long as they can. All a Safefill is is a cylinder shaped car! Shell replied to me the other day saying that due to the cylinder 'shooting off' the dispenser on the odd occasion, the blanket ban remains in force. As Safefill users will know, such a thing can't happen. I would have emailed back but sometimes you just have to accept that your efforts are hitting a brick wall. When you study this a little closer you realise that Autogas supplies Shell and who are Autogas?? - Calor!! I have the distinct feeling that Shell will be left with egg on their faces as Safefill becomes widely or even universally accepted. Watch this space for further exciting news😂😂😂😂😂
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Does anyone know if two Safefill bottles will fit in the centre gas bottle compartment of a Bailey Unicorn 3 Valencia? No-one has been able to answer that one for definite. The chap at our local dealers thought probably not, but he was 'guessing'. I just wanted to avoid taking the caravan to a safefill supplier and trying it!
David
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Do you have space for two ordinary ones? If so I would expect the Safefills to fit - my locker would take two if I get round to putting the second. They aren't vastly different to what we have been used to.
Sorry I can't be definite - but if you buy one - you could tell then?
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These are the various bottle sizes:-
Gaslightbottles.co.uk avail from Homebase. (formerly BP then MacGas)
10kg H587 W305 Gross weight 15.4 £65/£30
5Kg H393 W305 8.7 £57
27mm clip on regulatorCalor Propane
13Kg H810 W315 gross weight 28Kg
Calor Lite H487 W256 gross weight 10.5KgFlogas ( Gaslow - marginally smaller)
6Kg H495 W256 gross weight 14.3Kg £30 deposit
11Kg H560 W310 gross weight 24.2KgAlugas
11Kg H600 W300 gross weight 15.4KgSafefill H571 W305 gross weight 15Kg net weight 10Kg = 19.5L £160+14pp
H468 11.6Kg 7.5Kg = 14.5L £150
H384 8.4Kg 5Kg = 9.5L £145
initial. Refill £12(+-)Just found some info which may be useful whilst having a garage tidy. For Antargaz Calypso we have a Comap cylinder valve adaptor Code 003250AF-SC inlet 20mm. with HP hose 20mm to 22mm. Works well and we can see when we are low on gas.
Le Cube uses the same connection as Gaslight
http://www.thegaslowcentre.co.uk/magento/gaslow/english/gaslow-27mm-clip-on-bbq-patio-heater-french-lecube-to-21-8-lh.html various connector/adapters.
Useful webpage on gas
http://www.mycaravan.org.uk/Gas Bottles.html0
