Splash & Dash
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One of the principal issues with motorhomes compared with caravans is that the former tour without any set itinerary. Notwithstanding the CAMC position of refusal to permit "splash & dash", it is seldom practical to book a single night at say half an hours notice. The Club seem to be singularly ignorant of the habits of many motorhomes and, as a consequence, fail to provide a system that is 'motorhome friendly' and I don't mean just a drive over waste dump.
I have in the past posted on this issue and faced vociferous opposition to the possibility of a revised approach. Sites with late night arrival pitches could with a little imagination reconfigure them to provide such facilities on a 'coin-operation basis' just outside barriers thus ensuring that the tranquility of 'resident' members was not disturbed. Site designers would doubtless still design cars with solid rubber tyres.
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@cyberyacht I think the Club view users of motorhomes/campervans as two distinct tribes, those that use campsites and those that don't use campsites. The seem determined not to encourage the latter or perhaps even recognise that some motorhomers will use a mix of places to stay. Perhaps the new Chairman will have a different view and that will have to be challenged at the AGM? I just can't see, in the immediate future, the Club investing vast sums of money in self service water and waste points, like you find on Aires abroad, as I can't see them seeing it as a worthwhile investment? When it comes to investing in sites they will always go for improving the general quality for all members.
David
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it is seldom practical to book a single night at say half an hours notice. Not sure why @cyberyacht . If you have 4G/5G coverage you can book online, or you could just turn up at the site, unless it’s a very popular one and a weekend, it is unlikely to be a problem.
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@cyberyacht the club caters for the type of MH/campervan...user that wants to use its sites for staying on and it does this quite well, it is really that simple.
Also if course it adds that it doesn't want to 'promote' wild camping. The choice to join is always up to anyone.
There's always a suitable, and usually near, alternative such as non club providers. Why does it have to be a club site?
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we have adopted a touring strategy that entirely suits what we want. We do a bit of research and embrace using all kinds of provision in the area we wish to use. Sometimes stays are free, not wild camping, but legal. Sometimes we pay a little bit, sometimes we pay a bit more, and we utilise whatever facilities are provided and at a time we might need them. We can happily stay off a site with facilities for around three days before we need to do a service stop, and even then might only need somewhere with a CPD point and a tap.
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Never been brave enough to camp off piste, probably too many years as a caravanner? Even abroad we only ever stayed on a couple of motorhome aires but both had full facilities so not much different from being on a campsite. However if that is your thing then as @Takethedogalong suggests you do need a strategy, especially in the UK, to plan where you might empty or replenish water supplies. There are a few parking areas that make that provision but they seem few and far between. Beyond that, and assuming people want to act responsibly, campsites and CL/CS are really your only option and they tend to need a degree of planning. There is a YouTube Channel called Life is too Short about a couple with a smallish PVC. They mainly camp off piste but recognise that every few days they need to stop at a campsite or CL to sort things out, it seems to work for them.
David
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I've only just seen this thread and will admit to not reading all the post so far.
The dump and go works well on many sites both here and over there, where its a service that is offered at most sites and of course aires.
The Camping Card network offer this to all campers for a fee of €6, which will not only allow you to dump but also to plug in to the 6 amp bollards and park for 6 hours. Its very handy for visiting a town/city then moving on again to somewhere else for the night.
The C&CC also offer this Service at some but not all of their sites also for a fee, I do believe that you can also have showers and use the washing machines. I've never come across anyone who has objected to it taking place.
There is also a number of other places that will allow you to dump and go like harbours/ports its becoming more popular on the NC500 and other parts of Scotland are keeping up with the times. introducing aires with and without facilities.
I dont think I would find it an inconvenience if the place is setup for it correctly.
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I think your last sentence is the key here @Tammygirl . Existing CAMC sites are not set up for splash and dash and the vast majority would need major works. Many of the points you mention are already covered in this thread.
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As @Tinwheeler posts of course there would be a perhaps significant cost in setting it correctly @Tammygirl ?
I think the club would have to decide if spending whatever it costs is in the interests of those that actually use club sites and if there that much demand in the membership of this club, which looking at the larger and growing number of MH (and I include all types here) I see on site, often more than 50%, actually want it.
But again if others are providing this service, and notably the other club, why does again does it have to be at a club site? Usually there are CCC sites relatively near to club ones?
As to the NC500 there has been a lot of negative press stories, perhaps unfounded, about the route and especially MHs.
I've said before people who actually use club sites should be asked first and the club has to decide if it wants to 'promote' wild camping.
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I think we really need to distinguish between wild or freedom camping and stopping, entirely legitimately, at other stop overs eg pub stops, aires, some carparks etc. These are all examples of recognised and formal overnight stops. Some are free, some have facilities, some do not. We do not freedom camp, not because we disapprove but because we dont want to. We do, regularly, use other approved overnight stops. These will be places on our way from a to b. They are not the equivalent of a camp site which serves a different purpose.
As for who should be asked about changes to club facilities, there is a tendency within the CAMC, and other organisations, to ask those who are members and take part in what is already on offer. There are MEMBERS who do not use Club sites for all the reasons outlined further up this thread. Whether with this topic or other aspects of facility surely the Club should be asking the question "why doesnt this group of members partake?" Retail organisations are not just content with their current customers, they wish to recruit others, so find out how they can attract others.
There have been several references in the minutes of various parts of the Club organisation to needing to do more for motorhomers, needing to understand what they want. The Club says it is investigating, i think there is some sort of sub committee, but I have yet to see any results of that.
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It appears to me on the outside that a minority of members seem to want to change the ways of the club. As a non-member, I ask myself the obvious question of why those in that minority are still members? If you join a club, you accept it's aims and methods, and if you renew your membership, you surely confirm you are happy with the way that organisation operates.🤷🏻♂️
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@Hja I know I keep on about this to the point of boredom but from what I have seen directly from the people in charge of the Club is that they seem to be against encouraging people, to what they see as, wild camping. What we don't know is whether that includes all the legitimate places you mention, I don't know? In the same way that as people tour the country they will use a variety of campsites, be they CMC, C&CC or Commercial sites, motorhomers may decide to use pub stops or approve designated parking places. I suppose the problem is that if they agree that people use a variety of stopping places it becomes more difficult to deny the use of Club sites for splash and dash? Far better that the Club stay out of the discussion where people decide to park for the night and perhaps spell out why such a service would be difficult to provide on Club sites. If they see no difficulties why not do it?
David
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I also suppose it's really a loss of income, if people can use club sites for a quick slapd and dash, or even worse in my view use of facilities and clothes washing - purely personal but as a 'full paying guest' I would expect to use them when ever I wish in preference to someone just passing through , then that outfit won't be staying on that site. .
There is also the problem of extra traffic on site which increases the risk, however small, of accidents. Not to mention how to pay and actually get into the site which has barriers. Even on multi set of warden sites it's not uncommon for the office to be closed in the morning and of course people arriving in the afternoons which 'passing trade' might add to the congestion?
Further those MH leaving or wishing to add/drain water at any time, perhaps coming in at any time paying the full price be in any way inconvenienced by those just passing through, fair enough if the person in front is staying on site but if the outfit holding you up has just come in and paying a small fraction of your money is that fair?
Also as a carvanner this may not affect me but I can think of quite a few smaller sites where two or more MHs might hold things up. This has happened to me but solo I could get round but with a caravan in tow maybe not?
CY mentions adapting current LNA with some coin operated machines? But as far I recall no LNA has water and drains at the moment so both some significant rebuilding and cost involved, for the benefit of who? Those staying on site? What about people who might be wanting or needing the LNA and someone is already using it?
Why does certain members not use club sites Hja asks? Well will making this splash and dash provision make more people stay on club sites? I can't see how personally, in fact the reverse appears to be the case to me.
The club has members that use club sites and those that don't and some fall into both groups but, once again forgive me, are either of those two non exclusive groups forced to join the club. As TW posts why would anyone join this club (and keep rejoining) if they are not happy with what they are getting?
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@huskydog I don't recall any drains beside or anywhere near the LNA though which would need to be put in? I remember as when it's busy the LNA area is used for extra parking during the day as in other sites providing the cars leave before office closing.
And what about fresh water as CY asked for, and isn't the MSP is quite a way beyond the LNA as I recall but it might have changed since my visit?
But again as I recall there is car park opposite the LNA which could cause problems during the day?
Also isn't the site one way even at arrivals? Outfits or cars coming in to the site to use the LNA and/or car park straight away by turning right then have to enter the site through the barriers and drive around to leave it in order to leave, I suppose a car could double back but a large-ish MH would have to drive through the site, so extra traffic on site? I suppose the one way system could be changed but again extra expense?
Sorry if the site has changed recently?
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we use the site regularly and there are drains , CCP and all out side the barriers and no need to go on site through the site and plenty of room to turn round , we do it even when towing our car as the motorhome emptying point is there as well , so it could be done there with out upsetting any one on site
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@huskydog There are a few sites, no more than a handful that I know of, that have the MSP at or near the entrance. Obviously Putts Corners as you mention and I can think of Seacroft at Cromer and I seem to recall the Southport site having the MSP the other side of the exit barrier but the majority are on the inside of the site.
David
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If the service includes six hours on site and a hook up I cannot see it working on many sites that may be booked up. If the site is full or near full how can you allow a prime pitch to be taken when someone with a booking might have to wait for them to move to get a pitch. A charge for just emptying the tank and refilling is a service that might work but staying on a pitch looks to me possibly unworkable unless you book and the site has room.
Personally people seem to have missed one point, in that the weight of water in an on board tank can put a motor home overweight and be illegal. Many do not have the leeway to accommodate this.
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@huskydog I don’t think it’s 'nay sayers' as you call them who are posting here and the term is, therefore, a little unfair with regard to the contents of this thread. There’s a huge difference between those who reject the idea out of hand and those who have posted outlining the practical difficulties of introducing such a scheme and/or quoting CAMC's stance on the issue. For instance, not once have I given my personal opinion on the issue (actually, I don’t have one) but have tried to be factual in stating the position of CAMC and the obstacles as they exist. I see others doing the same so perhaps that’s the difference between those of us who are realistic and those who simply want what might suit them.
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@huskydog Looking on my past pics I can't see any drains where the LNA is, even if they are there are you suggesting that MH should simply somehow empty their waste water onto the tarmac and hopefully the waste will find its way to one? Remember that CY is suggesting that the current LNA area is converted which coin operated machines. Also Putts corner has only one MSP, should those staying on site be put out by those who use it for a fraction of the price? I've noticed that on sites with one MSP there are sometimes queues to use it from those staying on site.
As I recall to access the LNA as you suggest you need to take the second right and then there could be outfits on the LNA and/or cars parks there, this might cause congestion in that area and it might inconvenience (rather than upset as you called it) those staying already on site. During the day LNA are used as overflow car parks, on some busy sites the LNA is used for a temporary place while outfits check in, and of course after office hours they are used as a LNA. I'm just wondering
I don't see it pointing out possible implications, inconvenience and the probably very significant cost in the adapting of the very useful LNA for those, really very few, who are asking for it that won't use club sites to stay on overnight is nay saying?
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Cromer has two MSP, one inside as I recall?
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There are aspects and decisions made by organisations that I am a member of that I don't necessarily agree with but I have to ask myself whether they are so integral to me being a member. If they are then I have to reconsider my membership. Both the National Trust and RSPB have made some decisions in the last few years that I haven't been happy with but they were incidental to the overall aims of both organisations that I had no reason to stop being a member.
So, it may be that some members have similar feelings about the topic in discussion here. Just because you would like a change to a procedure or dislike it doesn't mean your continuing membership should be in question. I can't see Splash and Dash being a deal breaker for many Motorhomers. There are plenty of other ways around the problem. Personally I would use a 1 night stay on a CL or CS with basic facilities but each to their own. I see no reason why, though, members cannot lobby for change. If the powers that be decide for or against it they will upsetting some members. I'm sure hardly anyone on here was asked whether we should have Glamping Pods on site. If this was a deal breaker then fine, you have to stop your membership but surely your membership is a question for yourself and conscience. Same with this discussion.
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At some point not long after we acquired our small MH, we thought it would be good if this Club could offer something similar to what the C&CC offer. But on doing a bit of research, we quickly realised that we personally didn’t need it, as there are a lot of reasonably priced, indeed in some instances free, options. Certainly don’t think it’s for the Club to spend Membership money on such, as the cons outweigh the pros in most instances. The number of LA’s with tourist locations are putting in more provision now, we came upon a dedicated splash and dash building on the seafront, under the Castle, at Scarborough this year, and have seen and used others.
If you like to tour on a budget, which at the end of the day is what many MH owners do, then putting in a bit of research, being open minded about where you legally overnight, and being prepared if the occasional planned stop doesn’t work out, pays dividends. We committed time and effort to doing this, and it has paid off for us. But expecting something like the Club to do it for you is frankly……lazy and ill informed. The Club’s priority is it’s Members who stay primarily on Club Sites. The sites are designed, staffed and organised with this market sector as the prime concern. They will not, understandably, want to rock any boat that might upset those who are their core market. Certainly not given the other options budget tourers can utilise.
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Semper eadum.
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@Takethedogalong said:
At some point not long after we acquired our small MH, we thought it would be good if this Club could offer something similar to what the C&CC offer. But on doing a bit of research, we quickly realised that we personally didn’t need it, as there are a lot of reasonably priced, indeed in some instances free, options.
and with each passing year the options get better and better.
peedee
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A lady who knew what she wanted, and what was ultimately in the best interests of her country while she was on the throne?😁
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@huskydog I never said I didn't believe you just that I couldn't see any on my photographs (we had a wide group photo) and my recollections of the site arrival area and the parking and LNA area.
But my main point HD is that these drains wherever they are in that LNA/parking area will be simple roadside drains with a grate to collect standing water from the tarmac and certainly not the wide road width of a MH that would be needed if the 'pitches' on the LNA were converted as CY suggests.
Unless as I posted are you expecting waste water simply to be discharged from a MH onto the tarmac to make its way to those drains which isn't a good idea I would say? With a waste master I suppose one could get it more or less over the roadside drain but isn't discharging from a MH is somewhat more difficult for alignment and hence the wide width drains they have on MSP?
Also isn't the only MSP some distance away from the LNA? Some some conversion would be needed and wider drains installed with the road being dug up?
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Yes but as with all site plans it's not to scale it's there just to give a rough idea. The LNA arrival area again from memory is at least two caravan plus car lengths long then the MSP and then the CEP. This is the best I can do for photos from Google maps to give an idea, and when we were there the car park was full and the LNA area was the overflow. As you can see there are no MH width drains MSP exist so the road next to the bollard would have to be dug and perhaps even a fresh water supply hose to achieve what CY wishes?
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