Dashcams
On a recent journey down the Northumberland A1 I witnessed a piece of appalling driving which quite honestly was both frightening and annoying. I hasten to add that I was in no way involved in this in anyway. Totally unconnected was another unseen accident ahead of us, some 10 minutes later which caused the closure of the southbound road for some time. I guess many of us here on CT have witnessed similar when out and about on our tours.
This morning I saw an article on TV about camera footage of similar poor driving taken from bicycles and cars being submitted to the police. I have seen quite a few motorhomes this year with dash cams and I am wondering now what is the reasoning behind this. Do any other caravaners or motorhomers have dashcams and if so how are they being used and for what purpose?
Article here
Comments
-
I used a NextBase dash cam in both my motorhomes for some years. We liked to record the route we took to sites, especially abroad and it also record campsites as you find your pitch. At one point I had thoughts of adding small videos to my website but never got round to it! I do remember one possible nasty incident in Austria when someone over took me and immediately turned right in front of me causing me to brake hard. The trouble was that A, it was questionable whether I should have been using a dash cam in Austria and B, it wouldn't have counted as evidence as it was filmed without the other persons permission so in some countries they have very different rules.
Margaret thinks I should use it in the car but so far I have not. I think the trouble is that these days you have to be an assertive driver and if that is not your style it can cause various worries. Margaret no longer drives because she no longer feels comfortable. For those unfamiliar with dash cams they record in relatively short sections which are knitted together by the software you use, so its easy enough to separate out a small section of video if you wanted to send it to the police. I have probably rambled a bit but just my take.
David
0 -
We have a dash cam in our Jeep and our MH. Of more use, my OH never cycles out now without front and rear cameras on his bike. He’s been knocked off his bike at least three times down the years, thankfully not badly injured, but every ride out has some foolish/dangerous driver giving grief. He has reported one to the local Police, and it did end up with the driver being cautioned about his behaviour. Our Police are quite good with this, all you do is upload footage. Aggressiveness towards cyclists in our area is unbelievable. I will only ride out on certain routes, much preferring to drive to get onto Trans Pennine Trail or other such routes.
0 -
I’m not sure, David, what you mean by ‘assertive driving’, confident definitely but assertive appears to me to have slightly aggressive tendency. Yes, I agree, if holding your position legally and safely, I’d agree but I witnessed a driver behind me on a motorway slipway entering the motorway rather than filing in comfortably he gunned it past me on the inside and running out of slip he just entered the hashed area throwing rubbish up from his wheels. It did mean I had to slow down but he made it, was assertive, not aggressive to me but is that good driving, I think not. Common curtesy no and awareness of fellow drivers definitely not.
incidentally, I don’t think drivers are worse today than when I started driving, you could drink and drive then!0 -
I think there’s a very fine line between assertive and aggressive. To me assertive is not being prepared to give way where neither party has the right of way and making sure you’re first while aggressive is charging ahead with disregard to the law. I’m sure you didn’t mean assertive in that sense, David, but perhaps Micky's choice of "confident" fits the bill.
We've used dash cams in all our vehicles for years, including the MH. Even using the cars close to home we’ve had cause to hit the save button when some idiot decided the double white lines didn’t apply to him.
1 -
Now wondering, when you hit that save button what did you do with the recording, Tinny?
So often over the years I’ve witnessed queues of vehicles behind a legitimate slower vehicle and rather than wait their turn an ‘assertive’ driver further back in that queue ‘goes for it’ sometimes forcing another cars in that queue to give way. Is that assertive or aggressive, yes it is a fine line but sometimes the difference can be a developing situation. Assertiveness changing quickly to agressive and dangerous where patience would have been better.0 -
In the event, we didn’t do anything with the saved extract, Micky. I hit the button more as a measure in case something further occurred causing an accident. It didn’t. That was also in the days before police forces started welcoming dash cam footage.
1 -
I think assertive is probably the correct word, maybe confident could be used, in the sense that you have to act in a way that other road users are aware of your intentions, having, of course, due consideration for other road users and driving firmly within the law. Aggressive driving is usually demonstrated by a complete lack of consideration for others and can be very dangerous? It may well depend on where you live in the country and the type of roads you generally use. Here in MK everyone lives within a minute of road with national speed limits so much higher speeds than are generally found in most urban areas, I add that just for context.
David
0 -
As some one who spent many years handling motor claims I have a dashcam to protect me against false allegations or even cash for claims incidents. From personal experience I know the extent of disputes after an accident where the people involved cannot even agree on the layout of the roads or who was where. Dashcam footage is virtually indisputable and is a very valuable piece of evidence in the event of a dispute.
As far as sending clips to the police, I gather some forces will use them but others do not. If you send one do remember you may be called as a witness if there is a prosecution.
0 -
We had a bus drive into our MGB many years ago in Sheffield. Wish we had had a camera fitted then. The lies that were told were unbelievable, with one witness stating our car was “yellow”. It’s actually Teal Blue. Our solicitor told us it was extremely hard to take on a big company, but he did sort something else out for us with some legal loophole. It covered the repairs, but it left a bad taste. We have a lot of badly parented children out and about on illegal ebikes, E scooters at the moment. They have no road sense whatsoever, many are simply too young, others possibly cannot spell their own names. It’s good to have a camera when something is coming straight at you doing a wheelie🫣😱.
0 -
I had an incident yesterday when a double decker bus that had been travelling close behind me, almost in my boot, swung out into the outside lane of the dual carriageway, went past me and then cut right in again to go off at a slip-road only a few metres ahead, missing my front end by very little. It was a 50mph limit which I was at and following other cars doing 50. It's a busy road. To overtake me the bus (which was a school bus incidentally) must have been exceeding this but it was the manner in which he swerved about that was my main concern.
I've got a dashcam and hope the episode hasn't been overwritten yet.
0 -
We had an aggregate lorry driving towards us with his tailgate not properly secured. It was a single carriageway road and the gravel and stone bouncing on the road hit us like a machine gun peppering the windscreen, front and side of the motorhome. It was 50 yards or so before we could stop by which time he had long gone totally oblivious. If only we had had a dash cam we would have been able to identify him. We have now.
0 -
There are some brands of Sat Nav that also have a dash cam built in if anyone is worried about too many things on the windscreen.
David
0 -
I have had a Nextbase dash cam for quite some years now, fortunately only needed any 'evidence' a couple of times..one of which was when we were coming out of Riva Bella site at Ouistreham for the early ferry...to witness a couple of immigrants coming from under the trees by the roundabout and hiding under a lorry which was stationary at the roundabout exit. At the port I showed the driver the footage, the rest you can imagine. I still have that footage., but cannot upload here.
Also I have many instances of poor driving, sadly footage of many caravaners who do not know, or do not want to know, the speed limits when towing. As mentioned above thread, if I shared any of this footage with the authorities, i could be called as a witness.
0 -
As someone living on the other side of the Channel where dashcam footage used as evidence is very restricted, I ask myself how such footage can be used as evidence in the UK if the driver of the offending vehicle cannot be identified in the video. Presumably if the police are informed any notification would be referred to the holder, but the holder can always claim having no idea who was driving at the time. Over here the holder must always have the opportunity to be able to identify the driver.
0 -
In the case of speeding offences, the keeper of the vehicle is asked to supply the name of the driver. If this isn’t given, the keeper is deemed to have been driving. Presumably the same would apply with other motoring offences.
2 -
Don't forget that any video footage provided by a member of the public would be used to start an investigation. I suspect the footage alone would not be enough to create a fine or be taken to court? Much of the dash cam footage supplied to the police would be illustrating bad or dangerous driving. It would be up to the police to decide if there was a case to answer, probably after speaking to the driver concerned. As TW says it is the keeper of the vehicle who is responsible for the vehicle. If the keeper wasn't driving it would be their responsibility to name who was. If they refused the driver would be deemed as responsible, that's as I understand it.
David
4 -
It strikes me as being very unfair to the keeper to expect him to know who was driving unless a written record is kept of which person takes turns of being at the wheel and when. What if I loan my car to more than one person and they can't agree amongst themselves on who was driving at the time? Without a written record I'd be the one who gets screwed.
0 -
Then really you should be careful to who you loan your car to perhaps?
If they can't be trusted to tell the truth if such an event happens and therefore land you in some trouble, then personally they are not the kind of people I'd be lending my car to. There is no need for a written record, all that is necessary is honesty. And of course if you could prove you could not be not driving at the time.
I don't see it as unfair as it's up to the 'keeper' to know who is driving their car or who they have loaned it to, unless it's done for commercial purposes?
And of course over here it is the driver who must have insurance (not the car) so would you check that whoever you loan your car to (which sounds as if it could be more than one) has insurance?
But unfair or not that's the law in the UK and has been for a long time so perhaps don't lend anyone your car here
3 -
Lutz, you talk as if we were the people who made the law.
It is what it is and that’s all there is to it🤷🏻♂️
"Screwed"? No, it’s a legal penalty not a scam.
2 -
Lutz - do you often lend your car to people who can't be trusted like this?
I suppose as long as you could prove it was not you driving then at that time that might be alright, but really as the keeper of the car you should really know who you have lent it to and when, and I assume their names, then it's up to the police to sort it out.
It sounds a bit of a loophole where you live? You lend your car to someone, the car is caught speeding at a certain time and they say I can't remember or won't own up and you say it wasn't you driving? Does everyone get off? There has to be someone responsible - errors apart.
2 -
Lutz
Important here that we remember that the police would be investigating an incident of dangerous driving. I suspect its very unlikely that anyone would loan their car to anyone they didn't trust to drive within the law? Another point to remember is that here in the UK we have a lot of ANPR cameras which might also provide some evidence of who was driving, even if it were some miles from where the incident took place. I don't quite buy this idea that people wouldn't remember given that the incident would have happened in a very specific place, on a specific day?
David
3 -
When my OH submitted the camera evidence of his “punishment pass” (motorist not happy with a cyclist decides to scare said cyclist🫣😱) he had both front and rear cameras. So the front camera caught the incident, the rear camera filmed who had been driving. He was caught bang to rights and got his just desserts. He chose to use his big heavy car as a weapon. Beggars belief.
0 -
I personally would like to see the parents of young children (under 16) prosecuted for dangerous behaviour on the roads. The parents at times are enabling such bad behaviour.
We live the other side of town from where some of the worst rioting took place a couple of months ago. Parents of one underaged participant frogmarched their son to the Police Station when they saw him on footage, they were so appalled at what he had been caught up in. Said he needed a proper lesson and hoped it would bring him to his senses.
1 -
While you are not required to keep a log you are required to identify the driver if reasonably requested by the police and can be fined for not doing so. Presumably the actual number of prosecutions will vary from area to area but "I cannot remember" is not a defence to the request, although if the delay in asking is a long one and becomes unreasonable then it might work.
Generally companies with cars driven by multiple persons will require a log of who uses each car so that they can check this.
0 -
Some time ago two cases set up the current case law used in England, Wales and NI. The first was where a couple said they could not remember which person was driving at the time. The decision of the court was that the prosecution had not proven their case against either and both were exonerated. Later another similar case heard in a higher court and featuring a well know couple, resulted in both being tried for the offence and both being found guilty.
0 -
We got our original dash cam years ago, we towed the caravan at the time and found that some drivers when waiting to pull out of a side road or a roundabout would see the caravan and try to shoot out before us, presumably not wanting to get behind a caravan, this happened once too often hence the dash cam. Now we use them on both our cars. What concerns me quite often is drivers tailgating, one woman recently followed me for some miles and if she had got any closer she would have been touching my car, we were in a long line of traffic all going at the same speed so really can’t think why the need, it was very unnerving. I’ve also noticed more recently the drivers that deliberately pull into the right hand lane before going straight across at a roundabout and then speeding up to cut in front of the driver on the inside lane also going straight on, I think that is aggressive driving.
0
