Speed limit on sites
I know this subject keeps cropping up. But in this day and age modern cars don't like 5 MPH for any distance , especially when towing. Would it not be sensible to increase the limit to 10 MPH, which MOST people would respect . I worked on the ambulance service for 40 years , so before everyone starts I know speed Kills, BUT to me a 10 MPH limit would be as safe as 5 MPH that NO one respects. OK I know someone will reply saying they always adhere to 5 MPH but they are very far and few between.
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To increase it to 10mph would not be a sensible move by any means! The stopping distance at 5mph is minimal but at 10 mph it is 13m so there is a big difference in safety.
I've yet to meet a car or MH, manual or auto, that will not chug along at 5mph. Select the appropriate gear and use a light right foot.
How can you say, contradictorily, that no one respects the 5mph limit and then say the compliers are few and far between? It can’t be both. You would also need to monitor all sites at all times to be able to make one of those statements. Sorry but I think this is a matter of your perception.
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Would it not be sensible to increase the limit to 10 MPH, which MOST people would respect .
Im not sure why someone who doesn’t respect the 5mph speed limit is any more likely to respect one of 10mph. It’s more likely in my opinion that they will consider 15mph OK.3 -
I see no reason why they would respect 10mph more? In my experience of setting rules most people will always just push past them and think it's ok as it's near enough, so with 10mph people will think 12 or even nearer to 15.
And what injury or collison? Plenty of speed stopping online calculators, they all vary but at 5mph it looks likes perhaps 5 or 6 feet. At 10mph they give anywhere between 10 to 15 feet. And there's reaction time (drivers perhaps looking at where to pitch, more relaxed after a journey...), and braking time - longer with a heavy outfit, road conditions to be considered as well.
A car, but especially car+caravan/MH has plenty of momentum to be transferred to anything that it hits and those extra 5 to 10 feet might just mean missing someone, and maybe not them a very bad injury, actually any injury would be bad. Also while there maybe no injury being pushed over isn't pleasant for either party while on holiday. Personally I don't feel 10mph is as safe as 5mph based on that extra 5 to 10 feet to stop. I wouldn't to risk it.
Also I feel you're suggesting the wrong thing, if as you say a rule is broken relaxing it isn't the way to go. Inform the wardens, they will act. getting people not at arrive before 1 was thought to be difficult but all it took was a telling people to go away and now it doesn't happen anymore. perhaps a 'heavier hand' with those caught speeding might be a better way?
I've posted before that the 'speeders' are the exceptions in my experience and it's very easy to do 5mph even when towing.
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I think we are focussing incorrectly on the related issues. What we should be asking is why some folk do not comply with the 5mph limit? Cars can do it, motorhomes can do it, drivers can do it! I’ve traveled at lower speeds over long distances in traffic jams along with all others in that queue including caravans and trailers being towed. so what makes some not do it? Laziness? Lack of driving skill? Disregard for the safety of others or is it they just can’t be bothered because they believe accidents won’t happen to them or their own loved ones? What we should be asking is what we want of our fellow members?
There is an old saying, “rules are for the obeyance of fools, and the guidance of wise men but problems occur when fools act as wise men and wise men act as fools.”
Surely we want everyone setting that safe example for all of us on site.3 -
I wonder if there is a degree of Psychology in setting the limit at 5 mph? It is actually quite difficult to drive consistently at 5 mph, you are bound to dip below and go above during your journey around the site. I had a dash cam in my motorhome which told me the speed I was going and even genuinely concentrating on trying to keep down to the 5 mph it was difficult and I often found I would creep up to 7/8 mph before dropping back down. So what has psychology got to do with it. Well, perhaps the ideal speed is around 10 mph but if set at 5 mph you probably accept that the average speed will be a bit over 5 mph but under 10mph? If you set the speed limit at 10 mph that is probably an open invitation to go a bit faster in the same way people, on average, people go a little above 5 mph?
David
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My Skoda Karoq 2 litre diesel will tootle along in 1st gear without my foot actually being on the accelerator - it's easy. If there's a slight gradient, then I do need to use my right foot to prevent stalling.
You're on a caravan site, there's no rush - what need is there to exceed 5mph?
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I can assure you TimboC , I, am more than capable of driving any vehicle , car, lorry , coach or ambulance which I have done all my life, so don't tell me I shouldn't be behind the wheel. I was just saying that I feel most people find 5 MPH difficult to assess without looking at the speedo all the time and not reading what's happening around them. 10 MPH is a comfortable speed to judge , and I still think more people would respect it. That is my view put on here for discussion. As an emergency ambulance driver for 30 years I don't like being told I shouldn't be behind the wheel by someone who has possibly nowhere near as much driving experience as myself. I don't see myself as a perfect driver, I've yet to meet one, we all make mistakes at times, no one seems to read the road now a days.
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David I 100% understand where you are coming from, if kids are about I drop my speed right down I don't need to be told, but when sites are quiet I must admit I'm closer to 10 MPH not above. I just thought with members always complaining about speeders I thought I'd get a few views on the subject. lol.
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SL, you have your views and, without totting up, I think they all say you are wrong to suggest an increase in the site speed limit. It’s interesting to see you admit to being one of the transgressors and I think that speaks volumes for the reasoning behind your OP. For the safety of all, slow down!
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“…most people find 5 MPH difficult to assess without looking at the speedo all the time and not reading what's happening around them.”
It’s easy, really easy, to assess 5mph, all you have to do is think a very sprightly walking pace. (It’s actually 60% faster than the average person’s walking pace) At that speed you can give your full attention to what is happening around you. Sites are not the Highway and pedestrians, children, and adults too, will be in a far more relaxed state of mind going about their holidays in this special environment . The experienced and enlightened drivers amongst us have no problem what so ever of assessing or driving at 5mph and in doing so have a greater awareness of what’s happening around them to the benefit and safety of all site users.
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I suppose we went to about 250 campsites overseas, but thinking around them I don’t recall ever being told to observe speed limits of this sort, yet it always seemed safe enough.
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Yet even in your home county a kiddie was killed on a campsite (not camc) last year.
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We seldom use Club Sites, but this year found ourselves at Clumber Park and Burrs Country park, over a weekend as well. The single memorable thing that stood out for us, in terms of how things had changed, was the speed most, yes most, visitors sped around the two sites. Hooked up cars, Motorhomes, campervans, unhooked cars….. there was no pattern. Nor was there any pattern to the age of the drivers. All selfish, uncaring, frightening given the number of children, walkers, cyclists and dog walkers around. We even saw some going the wrong way on the one way system at Clumber, so desperate was the need to find a pitch, empty the tanks, get out, get in. Staff were walking the site at Clumber regularly, I presume as a bit of a deterrent and to spot obvious miscreants.
We don’t like all the rules and advisories on Club Sites, much prefer a more relaxed approach. But we don’t blame the Club any more. We look at the fools who seem incapable of adapting their own behaviour when in a busy place, too uncaring or selfish to take much notice of what’s around them, vulnerable pedestrians, unpredictable youngsters. That’s why it’s 5mph, and should stay 5mph. Any driver incapable of maintaining 5mph is silly, you have to do it in a line of traffic crawling along, so don’t blame the vehicles.
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This shouldn't even be a debate.
Whats the point of increasing the speed limit to 10mph? To get to you're pitch 30 seconds quicker?
It's all well and good slowing down when you see a child, but what about the child you don't see? The child on a bike, the child on a scooter, or the child that is just plain excited about being on holiday and is behaving like a child!
Most cars will coast at around 5mph. If it goes faster, use the brake...how 'difficult' is that!
Most people who get caught for speeding aren't bad people, but they have lost concentration or are distracted. I've been distracted whilst driving on site by wildlife, the latest model of caravan or awning, or the actions of another camper. Its times like that when you don't see a child.
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And has Tim says what about the children you can't see? The ones that may run out, cycle out, scooter out, from behind the caravan on a pitch you're approaching?
My caravan is 2.25m wide, that's 7.38 feet. At 5 mph you are travelling at 7.33 feet per second, that means it will take you about one second to pass that caravan. At 10 mph you will take less around half a second.
So as said a kid runs/cycles out in front of you, running they might stop but cycling perhaps not. At your preferred speed of 10mph you have less than half a second to react and stop. As I posted before at 5mph you'll probably make it (5 or 6 feet stopping max) but at 10 mph the stopping distance is 10 to 15 feet and I dread to think what could happen. Now I understand that kids shouldn't be running or cycling fast but kids do that and it's up to us as adults to take more care and it's no consolation to say it was the kid's fault.
I have to say as an ambulance driver I'm shocked you can be so casual about road safety. Considering that you were I am even more shocked you admit to speeding on site. You're risking lives.
Also why is 10mph any easier to keep to than 5? Which is your point, it's easier or more people will 'repect' it?
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Last comment on the subject.
I was knocked over when I was 8 by a slow moving car approaching a junction. I know that junction well, and he couldn't have been doing more that 10mph.
It was Christmas, and I had just got off the bus after the school party. I was carrying my empty cake tin and happily banging it to the Christmas songs that I had recently been singing.
The next thing I remember is waking up in Hospital an hour later.
Don't tell me that increased speed is acceptable because 'modern cars don't like doing 5mph'
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I don't think motor vehicle speedometrs can be considered accurate at low speeds, such as being discussed. I recall some dials not being marked for this and starting at 10mph.
On my Land Rover there is a function to adjust the displayed speed to take account of different tyre sizes and I recall a forum post where someone had pused the adjustment to the limit to show zero when actully doing neary the favoured 5mph. Better to watch the speed shown by the sat-nav, or to actually look at the surroundings rather than a display.
Perhaps A.I. will rescue us with future vehicles that will brake automatically if there is a threat of collision.
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The future is here, Nav, but automatic braking does not mean you will stop any quicker if you exceed the speed limit.
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Nav that's already here, and been here for a good few years. I believe it's now mandatory in new cars. AEB - Autonomous emergency braking
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From my experience abroad, it is normal to park your outfit outside and and then walk and choose your pitch,
None of the CAMC one way racetrack, where you drive around to view all the pitches and then drive around again at a quicker pace to grab your chosen spot. This was my view a few years ago and I can't believe anything will have changed.
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I was looking for A.I. to be a bit more useful than just a sensor of something in the way. Hopeful that it would soon be able to consider the surroundings and limit the speed according to its perceived asessmen of risk.
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It works from a camera, Nav, as well as sensors.
I suppose you could have a robot walking in front carrying a red flag. 😂1 -
Yes,Mikey, we went to sites like that, but also those where receptionist came out of office and set off on electric bike at 15 mph saying Follow me.
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