Exorbitant Site Pitch Fees
I am sure so I am not and will not be the last one to mention this. But the huge increase to site fees over the past couple of years or so and certainly since the covid pandemic can surely not be justifiable. I really don’t think that the management have a clear marketing policy as it appear to be changing on a regular basis.
I have been in business all my life and for over 45 years, with over the 25 of them running my own retail family furniture business. During that period you have to show respect and loyalty to your many existing customers, and different to many businesses out there now, treat your existing customers with respect and offer transparency and incentives to retain their likewise loyalty to us the business, not to offer new customers a bigger incentive. Your prices have to be likewise transparent and have to be competitive. Sales and promotions often are needed to elevate your presence and to beat the competition, but not to reduce the price down to what should be a more competitive price in the first place. This is what I see the club is now doing, making us believe that the promotions and discounts offered present exceptionally value for money, when it doesn’t and only reduces the price to a little closer to where the prices should be in the first instance.
My wife and I use to use the club sites on a regular basis, and although we very rarely use the shower facilities and as such consider the cost for a site not the best value for our money spent, have done so, as the cost was not greatly more expensive than CACC sites, CL sites or independent sites. Now the cost differential is considerably more. We can afford to pay the sites cost and much more if needed, but this gripe and reason for using the club sites less and less has now become a matter of principle. I really don’t believe that the club will take much notice, until there are more and more voids on their sites, which at that stage will announce that they have dramatically reduce ALL their site price costs and to a huge fanfare ….. haven’t we done well!!
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Sadly, I empathise with much of your post, and there have been a good deal of other posts about the cost of Club Sites, and some of us have seen Sites a lot less busy than usual. Others seem perfectly happy with prices, and are not seeing empty pitches, so I suppose that only time will tell, and the next couple of Club financial reports will give a better indication of how things are going. 🤷♀️
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Why do people choose to take up a very expensive hobby and then complain that it’s expensive?
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It wasn’t expensive up to a few years ago for us, and given that we happily search out vfm stopovers, it still isn’t. No storage fees for either MH or caravan, no back and forth to dealers for design faults, warranties, things falling to bits, caravan isn’t insured and MH is very reasonable. We can do most of the checks/repairs on MH ourself, it has sailed through its MOT all of the ten years we have owned it, and we get close to 40mph on a trip. Club Sites, particularly no facility sites used to be great vfm. But the no facility sites are dwindling fast, and Club Site prices are now way down our list of choice. It’s still camping to us, a cheap way of seeing the places we love for extended periods. We get luxury elsewhere, usually with the money we save on not using Club Sites🤣
If you have been a Club Member for a long time, you will have seen so many changes, particularly these last four five years. It’s no longer what we joined, has to move on of course, but it’s catering for a different market now on Club Sites. Hence we tend to take our custom elsewhere…..
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It’s certainly true that CAMC prices have increased more than the general rate of inflation. Over the last 10 years Google tells me this is 34%. Checking what we paid for a couple of sites in 2014 and comparing them with current prices for the same dates, I found a 58% increase at a not so popular site (Breacon) and 84% at a honeypot (Chatsworth). We’ve only stayed on one CL and that has increased by 60%.
How this relates to the sector in general I have no idea, 10 years ago we exclusively used club sites, therefore I’ve no others, except the CL, to compare.
Given what makes up the cost structure of a typical site it would be realistic to expect a rise above the general 34% level of inflation. Therefore the 58% figure for Breacon doesn’t seem far from what might be expected. The 84% figure for Chatsworth is just the club milking it as they can. The same as York and Baltic Wharf.
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What really annoys me is smart pricing. Every weekend is very slightly more expensive. Surely it costs exactly the same then as other days in the week. Also some sites are stupidly expensive, I'm thinking about Brighton. It's over £40 all the time it's open and over £50 in high season. It's also the closest site to Newhaven for the ferry.
As to electric I don't favour metering. I don't want to spend my holiday worrying about how much we're using. We don't use a great deal but we need it to charge our e-bikes which allow us to leave the motorhome on site and is good for climate change. I'd rather the supply was restricted to 10 amps which would limit how much could be used for heating in particular.
A couple of years ago, I calculated that it was cheaper to stay in sites in France for 3 weeks in August, including Dover Calais ferry crossing than it was to stay in uk for 3 weeks! And the weather is better. Diesel wasn't included in my calculations but if you don't go too far in France it doesn't make a huge difference.
We've only spent 3 weeks on CAMC sites this year due to cost. I've also considered leaving the CAMC. We've been members for over 20 years. My parents were members for around 50 years.
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How this relates to the sector in general I have no idea, 10 years ago we exclusively used club sites, therefore I’ve no others, except the CL, to compare.
An independent site I use almost every year has only increased its price 38 percent in the last 10 years for a hard standing pitch with 16amp EHU. This shoulder season a serviced pitch, similar to that of the CLub, is £26.50
peedee
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I think the Club is going to have to weather a perfect storm in the next few years. It’s squeezing everything it can from Club Site loving Members, giving back the odd teaser offer with too many T&Cs attached for a lot of others. I find it all rather sad really.
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I don't think it will be just the Club that will almost certainly have to have a rethink. Independent sites seem to be much more able to control their costs, the Clubs and those owning multiple sites with more overheads, not so. There are several factors that seem to be demanding a rethink, not least the increase in motorcaravans, even this may well slow down as people realise owning a leisure outfit and using sites is not cheap.
peedee
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I do think that site fees have rocketed, unjustifiably so in some cases. You can't help but compare and recently we had a stopover at an independent site near Carlisle en route to Scotland, called Greenacres. Absolutely fantastic facilities, immaculately kept, service pitch, easily comparable to Club 'flagship' sites - £33. Troutbeck Head not far away was over £40 last year. The Club used to be the byword for caravanning but lots of sites have caught up now and, in the case of Greenacres - in my opinion - surpassed the standard. Makes you wonder about renewing.
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I have just been looking at our average site costs in recent years and they are listed below. I have only included years where we did not go abroad. We would have used a variety of sites of both Clubs, the odd CL and some commercial sites. If people really want to know what sites we used they are all on my website A couple of notes on the figures, whilst we did stay on two sites in 2020 we had some site vouchers so not sure what the individual prices were. In 2021 prices are lower than they would normally be, due to the VAT reduction which was fully applied by the Club. In the years mentioned we spent £8000 in site fees but the cost of fuel, insurance, VED, and maintenance was probably higher. We do know that in the immediate aftermath of Covid the Club had serious problem recruiting site staff which would have added to costs. Plus there has been the impact of the Russian invasion of Ukraine on energy prices plus general inflation being up to nearly 12% So all those pressures will obviously impact on site prices. In my view its not really valid to compare what one individual independent campsite does with their prices with an organisation that has a network of sites some of which more than pay their way whilst other are probably on the verge of needing subsidy. So a Club site charging £50 a night may well be keeping a site only charging £25 a night open and in the network.
David
2017 24.67
2018 22.20
2019 23.48
2020 ****
2021 22.22*
2022 29.47
2023 34.06
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I don't think you're really comparing like with like there, you mention a stop over to Scotland near Carlisle where Green Acres is perfect but location plays a part in site prices. Troutbeck Head is within the lake district (and has better views) and better situated for the lakes while Green Acres is near Carlisle, and less of a tourist spot in my view, isn't.
Once you're in the lakes then lake prices apply, a few miles away from TH is the quiet site which is slightly more expensive by a few pounds date for date and for a couple and of course there far more expensive sites exist in the lakes.
Also as Steve pointed out the T&C makes a difference, those at Green Acres are in comparison terrible (in my view) with non refundable deposits, all payment within two weeks and nothing back if cancelled or you leave early, extra for BH and a three day minimum, extra for dogs and day visitors. Also a MH towing a car incurs charges for that car. Less amps on a standard pitch
Now none of the above may not have applied to you but they soon mount up.
Makes you wonder about renewing.
Well if it was me and I found something better and cheaper than club sites then no I wouldn't wonder at all.
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+1.
the way sonme talk about club prices one could think they are some basic necessity.
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Here is what I paid on average split on C&MC sites and the overall average for that year. Both figures include membership costs, in my to both C&MC and C&CC.
peedee
David C&MC Overall
2017 24.67 18.27 15.08
2018 22.20 24.83 16.10
2019 23.48 23.64 18.81
2020 **** 20.82 19.57
2021 22.22* 24.18 22.89
2022 29.47 38.52 23.21
2023 34.06 26.17 23.48
peedee
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The question in my mind is whether you stayed at the 'other' sites within the same price band/ time as the CAMC sites to make it a like for like comparison. Also, have you included rallies/THS in the 'other' costs because that will inevitably blur the edges.
Overall, both your costs and David's on CAMC sites don’t look too foul to me.👍🏻
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We are currently at a well known “Tranquil Site” in Glastonbury. “We” being 2 adults in a 7m motorhome staying on a hard standing pitch with electric (not “serviced”). We have paid £40 per night.
This is a commercial site with 5 star + facilities including beautiful en-suite type toilet and shower rooms. They have a team of gardeners keeping the grounds in immaculate condition. They also have coffee making facilities, a pool table a well stocked shop and even a swimming pool for dogs!I compare this with nearby CAMC site at Chedder quoting just under £45 and Black Knoll is over £54 per night. That is after we have paid an annual subscription!!
I cannot see how a club can justify such high prices when a long standing commercial site, that is presumably profitable, can provide more at less cost?
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I cannot see how a club can justify such high prices when a long standing commercial site, that is presumably profitable, can provide more at less cost?
As I mentioned above, as well as considering the price, site quality and location, you have to take into account the T&C’s. You can’t argue that even with deposits the CAMC ones aren’t very good. Personally I’d rather not mess about with an add on insurance scheme to possibly get a refund if they agree it qualifies.
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The T&C's on that site are a world away from CAMC's, including minimum stay restrictions and full payment 28 days in advance. Yes, it’s a lovely site but we only went once at a quiet time when we booked at short notice.
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I am sure The Old Oaks is a very nice site but HollysPack didn't mention the four day minimum stay. The T&C's, like most non club sites are pretty stringent as mentioned by other posters, whereas if you have to cancel a Club site immediately before getting there all you lose is a modest deposit, I speak from personal experience. That independent campsite will have a financial structure that suits them and if its a few pounds a night cheaper than a nearby Club site so be it. The difference between comparing Club sites against a single commercial site is that the Club gives you a pretty comprehensive choice of sites, what is it 150/200? In that network there will be sites that are more expensive and probably subsidise less used sites whereas a single site does not have to take that in to consideration. You can enjoy our hobby without belonging to the CMC and there are some very good commercial sites out there. However if you get caught out by those T&C's you will soon see the Club in a different light.
David
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Do retired folks really need to book well in advance though, unless of course you want to be in a particular place, on a particular date? A few Sites, not just Club, might be busy, but there’s a huge choice out there. It is possible to tour without getting entangled in onerous T&Cs of any kind.
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Whilst I don't think the club sites are cheap, some of the cheaper more basic, independent, (primarily) tent sites are simply not suitable. As has been mentioned, earlier, if you have ebikes (as we do) and don't have solar panels and inverters (we don't), then you need an electric supply. and if you stay pretty much anytime autumn through to late spring, then you will probably prefer to use electric, rather than gas for heating. And a fair number of caravans, and presumably MHs and CVs are now fitted with an part electric hob - so decent electric supply is probably preferred.
I am going up to Galloway and then across to Northumberland on the motorbike in a couple of days time. Admittedly this is high season, but B&Bs are a ridiculous price, so I have ended up paying £50 & £55 per night for camping pods in each location, where I still have to take bedding etc - makes the club sites seem perfectly reasonable in comparison.
So come the end of the school holidays, we will be away again, probably using club sites (either CAMC or CCC the majority of the time
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There are very many CLs and the C&CC equivalent which would meet your needs as far as EHU is concerned and at a much lower price, especially in high season
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They may not be a great choice as wh1nbrew won’t have the caravan in tow.
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And many do battery charging as well👍
For the times when caravan/MH is along😁
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I was actually referring to his trip at the end of the summer holidays, which I interpreted as him going off again in his caravan/MH. There are of course CSs that take tents or have pods for the use of light weight travallers.
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TDA
I suppose I would say it depends? We rarely booked months and months ahead but other than a few single site stays most of our trips were tours of between 2/4 weeks so we enjoyed the comfort (for want of a better word) of having the sites for that trip booked. All of our sites were chosen for their location, usually either walking distance of things or close to public transport. Some of the better known commercial sites often meet that requirement. So if you want to be on particular site because of its location you have to accept the T&C's and any subsequent losses should you be unfortunate. Some of those good commercial sites are very popular and need to be booked in advance.
David
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Currently on site at Incleboro Fields for our annual visit and I've never seen so many empty pitches, particularly on the Kettlegrove side. It's a 250 pitch site and, whilst I haven't counted, there must be at least 30 pitches free which, in the middle of the school summer holidays, is very unusual.
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As a very infrequent caravaner, I cancelled my 30 years of continuous membership two years ago but renewed 9 months later just to continue the insurance cover on my now 22 year old Lunar Clubman.
I used the van for just a week last year, and and just 10 days this year. On both occasions they were independent caravan sites and the pitch fees were £20 or less. They were both chosen for location rather than cost but I am amazed at the cost of a Club site nowadays. For someone who never uses any of the facilities other than the pitch, electric hook up and water supply I feel it's poor value .
With membership due again any minute I decided to check elsewhere for insurance and have found even that is less expensive elsewhere so why should I bother renewing my membership until such a time as I might want to use one of their sites? The same applies to the insurance too I guess.
One thing I have noticed in recent years as I'm sure so many obviously must have is the huge cross over from caravans to motor homes and with it the attitude that once the motorhome is paid for the owner has the right to park it overnight wherever they choose. They are certainly not prepared to pay expensive site fees. I think the club has a big problem to face in the coming years.
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One thing I have noticed in recent years as I'm sure so many obviously must have is the huge cross over from caravans to motor homes and with it the attitude that once the motorhome is paid for the owner has the right to park it overnight wherever they choose. They are certainly not prepared to pay expensive site fees. I think the club has a big problem to face in the coming years.
As a very infrequent user of club sites you wouldn’t have noticed. However, there are several threads on CT that mention the subject. Motorhomes on club sites frequently equal or outnumber caravans, particularly on more expensive service pitches. Your statement is a gross distortion of the facts.
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