Hillhead Brixham
People might want to be aware that there is a problem with a group of travellers who have managed to get onsite. Pool clubs and shop have been closed due to this also a large amount of security and police. Not great for members at the moment.
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Nightmare for visitors and Club. Hope it gets sorted for everyone.☹️
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How many of them, and are they well behaved? We shared sites twice with similar groups in France. (Bourges and St Pourcain sur Sioule) Groups of 15 or 20 folk of Irish traveller origin with 7 or 8 very expensive Mercedes plus Fendt vans - all very self contained people who didn’t want to chat, but no trouble on site.
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With mention of security and police, I think we can guess at the behaviour, Euro.
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But Hillhead website does say Non members welcome
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We cut our holiday short as they pitched their vans around our caravan. Feeling very intimidated and worried for ours and the kids safety. They were shouting, swearing, arguing til the early hours, then it continued again from about 7 am. Some appeared intoxicated. The rubbish was starting to build up. A sad end to our Summer holiday.
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The club we pay our fees to should take note and make all club sites member only. We got up early today so that we were ready to leave fearing what might happen. Not a nice feeling last night seeing police cars driving around the site and security guards at the entrance and reception this morning.
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We saw bad behaviour by travellers at Putts Corner last year. Small children diving into the shop and stealing whatever they could get their hands on. Units with huge gas cylinders outside. Rubbish everywhere and foul language. The sort of things that the rest of us would get banned for.
The club needs to get its act together
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Members only or not would have no effect on insurgents barging into a site. Neither would only accepting members prevent certain folk from being on site legitimately.
Very often it is a condition of the operating permission granted by the local authority that CAMC allows non-members to use a site.
It happened to us in Eire and I agree it is frightening but, realistically, there’s only so much a site operator can do when faced with such a situation.
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I believe there have also been problems with a group of travellers who are club members and recently stayed at Ayr Craigie Gardens, New England Bay and Englethwaite Hall. These people are club members and book pitches as members. There is nothing the club can do to prevent them from booking sites. The club can however, enforce the rules which apply to all of us members and non members.
When 'a member' or otherwise, turns up with no number plate on their caravan, puts a 30kg gas bottle outside their caravan, allows their dogs to foul the site, fouls the site themselves (because it is considered unclean for them to use their own facilities) and leaves rubbish on their pitch for the wardens to pick up ...... Then on top of all that, they drive around the site (in the dark) looking at what everyone has on their pitch ...... It really is intimidating to the vast majority of us law abiding members.
The club does not need to discriminate against these people, they just need to enforce the rules so that all members are treated equally!!! Maybe it's time for the club to re-introduce a ban on commercial vehicles. That may help?
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“The club does not need to discriminate against these people, they just need to enforce the rules so that all members are treated equally!!! Maybe it's time for the club to re-introduce a ban on commercial vehicles. That may help?”
I think it’s quite likely that these folks wouldn’t take kindly to wardens trying to enforce the rules, leading to a situation whereby a warden gets threatened, or worse. If this becomes commonplace, it may well put off folks visiting club sites. The club really needs to do something about this, but what?
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Sorry but it’s ridiculous to expect Site Staff to try and “apply the rules”. They are as vulnerable as anyone else when criminal trespass behaviour is happening, and wading in would simply inflame a situation.
The Club no doubt has a protocol that applies in such circumstances, and staff can only follow this and keep Members on site as up to date as possible. This certainly happened when we were on Exeter Racecourse many years ago, and things had turned very nasty. Area Manager was on site, those who wanted to leave (and many did) were sorted out with pitches elsewhere, fees credited, helped as much as possible. It sounds now as though Club might be using Security as well. The Police can only do so much, until a trespass is reported, by that time, the undesirables will have moved on. They know how to work the system.0 -
"The club does not need to discriminate against these people, they just need to enforce the rules so that all members are treated equally!!! Maybe it's time for the club to re-introduce a ban on commercial vehicles. That may help?"
Brave words but put yourself in the warden's shoes. What would you do - wade in and order the insurgents to leave or phone the police/security? The wardens aren’t there to put themselves at risk.
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Nobody should expect the wardens to deal with these people but it’s a shame the police can’t enforce more, like abroad as others have already said. Sad when long planned holidays are spoilt for people and their kiddies who are prepared to share the space and the rules happily with others. These people book in at local holiday parks and then cause havoc, some treating the animals they bring with them abominably. The owners of said Parks are still concerned about discrimination in dealing with the problems. Seems we and the police have to be concerned about what we do and say while others ride roughshod, spoiling holidays for others and wonder why they get a bad name.
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In most cases the situation is not trespass. In the recent event we witnessed, they were members and initially paid the site fees. What they didn't do was abide by the Club rules. They had large gas bottles outside the caravan, left bags of rubbish on the pitch. Most of the vans didn't have registration plates or even handwritten ones. These are clear violations of Club rules and as such need to be enforced. If the site managers don't feel empowered to tackle the situation they need to be able to escalate it up the chain of command. The area manager needs to rapidly attend and take charge. Isn't that what we as members pay these people for?
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TW, as this "invasion" has occurred on a few occasions recently one would think that those at HO are well aware that it could happen at any time and that by now they have a strategic plan in place to deal with the matter and not ignore it. I think that is what eyebrowsb means when saying that they "run away", although I could well be wrong.
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I think expecting site managers/wardens to enforce rules under normal circumstances is one thing (& i wish they would do a bit more of it eg dogs not on leads, people on bikes going wrong way round one way, and above 5mph) but expecting them to tackle the sort of "invasion" outlined here that has occurred on a number of sites is quite another thing. I am sure that the Club has a protocol for staff to follow in these circumstances. I hope that such a protocol includes provision for going beyond the initial response. One of the issues for police is no doubt that the incidents are taking place on private land. I suspect that if there was an affray their response might be different. But obviously one hopes it doesnt get to that stage. I am also sure that any organisation, including the club, is not going to make that protocol public.
However, I do hope that the Club is contacting members effected and I do hope those members are contacting the club with descriptions of their experiences.
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No doubt they do have a plan, Nellie. I responded to that post according to the way it appeared to me. It all boils down to the fact that whatever plan CAMC may have in place, they cannot be omnipresent and folk should realise that.
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I expect there are two types of incursion onto Club sites. Firstly those who are paid up members and if they are there is really no way you can prevent taking up a booking. However if they cause problems on site their membership can be rescinded but of course that doesn't deal with the immediate problem. Secondly there are those that invade or trick their way onto a site and that surely should be dealt with by the police? When I was a manger in retail in my working life I was responsible for the security of my stock but that didn't include putting me or my staff in the way of physical violence. I think there is an underestimation of the possible dangers. Having a 30kgs gas bottle outside your van may well be against Club rules but is hardly a hanging offence? If the club is going to clamp down on these instances they are probably going to have to put controls that will impact on all members. Perhaps photo ID, photo registration of outfit. I can just see that going down well! Whilst we have had an increase in this happening recently we don't know what the size of the problem is but the Club will. My final comment probably won't be welcome by many but is about whether travelling people have a right to follow their lifestyle. If the answer to that is yes then the only way to solve the problem is to have more legal places for them to stop, as simple as that.
David
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+1 David. You sum up the near impossible situation sensibly.
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I do not know what protocols or management plans the Club have in place for such situations, but they are clearly deficient if wardens feel they need to leave because they don't feel supported by the Club? Yes wardens are placed in an invidious situation and it is difficult and very intimidating confronting groups of travellers as a lone person. They are bullies and that is how they get away with it. But that is not a reason to walk away and hope the situation resolves itself by them leaving eventually. The Club need to have plans in place to support the onsite wardens and protect the other members.
Other members should not be placed in a situation where they need to act differently when travellers are on site. They should be able to enjoy their holiday without having to change their ways or plans.
I feel sorry for the site wardens. The Club appear to have failed in their responsibility to them, to fully support them in managing the situation, whatever action is deemed necessary by the circumstances at the time. In the recent event ,the site wardens resigned and left saying that they did not feel supported by the Club. They felt so stressed by the ongoing situation that they felt that the only way out was to leave. Wardens from another site were rushed in to cover the site. I might add that the area manager did not attend the site to support either set of wardens. I would do the same if being paid minimum wage. Dealing with bullying and intimidating travellers would be way above my pay grade.
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I agree 30kg gas cylinders outside the van is not a hanging offence, but it is a Club rule. Is there a hierarchy of Club rules? Surely the rules are there for a reason and transgression should be dealt with fairly towards all members? Which rules are more important?
Travellers do have a right to follow their lifestyle. But does that lifestyle give them the right to ignore Club rules which if they have joined the Club, then surely they have agreed to follow the rules of the Club? It is not the Club's responsibility to create more legal stopping places for travellers.
Rules are there for a reason. Some we might disagree with. I may say it is my lifestyle to drive at 100mph, but I doubt many judges would agree.
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A friend of mine had first hand knowledge of the 6 van invasion at Plymouth Sound, violence was threatened to wardens and members including pets. Allegedly a seasonal pitch van was rolled over. Electrical bollards driven over.
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/clean-up-begins-travellers-leave-9471973
I'm guessing that they relocated from here.
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Chaddlewood is not too far from the Plymouth Sound site but Hillhead is further up the coast in Torbay. That doesn’t rule anything out of course.
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Club couldn’t have been more helpful when it happened to us. We were offered our nights fee back, but it was only £15 at the time so we weren’t bothered. They helped everyone find an alternative site if they wanted one. A lot went from Exeter to Stover, but we headed further SW to Marazion.
Club can’t forcibly remove them, neither can police. Club cannot know ethnicity of a joining Member, so cannot stop them joining. That would be discrimination anyway.
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