Mr Bates vs the Post Office
Has anyone else been watching this brilliant series on ITV, the final episode was tonight. Its obviously a dramatisation of real events with Toby Jones as the lead character but also with a stellar cast of other actors. We like to think that we have a fair and just justice system in this country but most would change their view of that having watched what these Postmasters went through and those that have survived are still going through.
David
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Yes, absolutely brilliant and the best TV drama I’ve seen in a long time. Although dramatised, it’s a fair representation in my opinion and some parts, like Jo's speech outside the Court of Appeal, I can remember as it wasn’t that long ago. The fight's not over yet.
I also wonder what other Govt computer systems were designed by Fujitsu.
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I’ve never binge watched anything before. That is until I started watching Mr Bates vs The Post Office last night. It’s a tale of hope but the events covered in the series have ruined innocent lives through deliberate and systematic actions by corporate and Parliamentary corroboration, coverups, corruption and outright dishonesty. Brilliant acting will stir every emotion, a must watch in my opinion for many reasons. Yes, a real wake up for many I think early in what may well be a special year ahead.
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My lovely other half has refused to watch it as she was on the receiving end, although not prosecuted.
She worked on Post Office Counters in our local Waitrose. Security on entry to the Post Office area was strict. All personal possessions, phone, money, any foodstuff that could be bought in the store etc had to go in her locker before she could even enter the store through which she had to pass through to get to the Post Office.
When inside she had her own till and was monitored by security camera. All hand movements on till, computer keyboard and screen were recorded.
On one shift during the introduction of the system she was exactly £1000 short. Her till was closed and double checked by her line manager who could find no irregularities. It was then checked by another member of staff who also found nothing. Camera recordings were later checked and again no irregularities found.
Next day she was in front of the store manager along with her line manager. In line with company policy she was given a written warning, but also a verbal apology and told not to worry, Waitrose would cover the perceived shortfall, as he could not understand what had happened.
A report was sent by the Store Manager and Post Office Counter Manager expressing grave concerns over the system.
We all know how seriously that got taken don't we.
Colin
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My heart goes out to those people who were falsely accused, EM, and the fact that some were driven to suicide over it is a total tragedy. The whole issue is an utter disgrace.
I hope the ITV series has made more of us aware of this shocking affair and, indeed, the internet and press both seem to have brought the matter to the surface again.
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Yes, we watched it and, although aware to some extent of the situation, I was completely staggered by the disgusting level of contempt shown by those at the top of Post Office towards those poor folk whose lives were (and in many cases still are) ruined through no fault of their own. I haven't yet seen the "true story" documentary which followed but will catch up on that later.
Doubtless, that despicable woman at the very top will be completely unmoved - if there was ever a case for stripping an individual of their totally unjustified "honour" (was it a CBE?) this is surely it.
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EB, I’m appalled by how the injustice and humiliation was deliberately handed out in order to preserve and protect those in control of developments. I feel for all who suffered and those still suffering today. I noticed this petition has really taken off in the last few days, maybe all those culpable of the injustice will be finally dealt with and true justice prevails.
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So sorry, I meant EM, I can’t start to understand how your good lady must feel. Hopefully Waitrose had some compassion for its colleagues and this helped lessen the damage and hurt to some degree. However, the true blame, and solution, lies with The Post Office and our Government.
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Colin
Maybe working in/for Waitrose was a saving grace despite the anguish it must have caused as one imagines the Post Office would be less likely to pursue a large company like Waitrose who would have their in house legal team? Having said that it must have been a very unpleasant experience nonetheless.
Moulesy
The documentary gives a bit more detail but mainly puts real faces to names used in the drama. I don't know about anyone else but I got the impression the Post Office boss didn't realise the extent of the problem initially or didn't understand it and when it did dawn the Post Office were in so deep they couldn't see a way out of it. It depends which portrayal of her is the real one, the drama one or the Select Committee one? What I find rather fascinating is that Paula Vennells is also a lady of the cloth and therefore one would have thought she would have a greater insight into right and wrong? Having her CBE removed to me is only of value if she decides herself to give it up.
David
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It's not often, in fact I can't remember the last one, that I sign petitions but I not only have I done so but emailed the link to many family and friends.
I also agree that it would be more meaningful if the award was voluntarily given back before it was taken away.
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Don’t forget, some of these people who “front” big corporations/organisations just move around from one to another, pocketing huge salaries and bonuses. It’s a cliquey little World all of its own, and well due for some proper investigations and some proper sentencing where things have fallen far short. Too many utter meaningless apologies and simply move on. They shouldn’t be protected, the ordinary workforce certainly aren’t. Scandalous beyond words what happened to those involved in this instance, my heart goes out to every one.
Take a look at the Google page of the person in charge at the time of the scandal, and subsequent appointments. It’s a money merry go round, with even the Cabinet Office involved. Disgraceful. I have signed the petition, and sent onto family and friends.
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Sadly DK, every organisation, be it national/local government, big corporate bodies, religious based organisations, Royalty, Police Forces, etc…… has its bad pennies, those who do cross the boundaries of what is morally and financially corrupt. Some seem to think that their status gives them protection, some seem to think that they are (misguidingly) protecting an “institution”. But all they are doing is letting down all the hard working honest souls, trying their best to do right. And destroying the reputation of once valued British based institutions.
I don’t think she she hand back her CBE. I think a public shaming would be a good start, and then a thorough legal investigation to establish who was at fault and let justice take its toll. Goes for a lot of other bad pennies still walking around and raking in millions. An “oh, I am so sorry” has become a meaningless gesture.
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Done, micky, and have forwarded the link to others to. I thought that there was a similar petition on the Change.org web site , but can't find it at the moment.
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Just watched the ‘Real Story’ on ITVX. This documentary tells the same facts but in even greater detail with much of the diabolical truth told directly by those very folk affected and involved in this travesty of justice. What I don’t understand is that having unequivocally won the case how they became responsible for paying the legal fees. Also where did the money these SPMs payed from their own pockets to balance those so called computer generated shortfalls go and whose pockets did it end up in? These people, and the possible thousands of others who have been wronged directly and indirectly, need compensation now. Those complicit in this very sordid affair need bringing to justice and made to pay for their continuous lack of compassion and honesty throughout the years of pain they have deliberately and knowingly caused. It cannot and must not happen again!
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Apparently the Metropolitan Police is investigating.
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I’d like to think that we all are making a difference. The sudden jump in signatures reached on that petition mentioned up thread is staggering and now comes that investigation Tinny mentions!
Updates
10 hours ago- 600,000 signatures reached
1 day ago-300,000 signatures reached
4 days ago-5,000 signatures reachedDid it really take the ITV series to really bring things to the fore to get things moving? Would it have remained under the carpet for most of us without it?
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In my opinion, the answers are ‘yes’ and ‘yes’, Micky.
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The petition on 38 Degrees has actually been around for quite a long time, possibly 3 years? So it’s an unequivocal “yes” that the TV drama brought to light to a much greater percentage of people what had actually been going on. I think you possibly had to have someone, or know someone who was affected, or read/ watch the quality press/ news channels to get a decent idea of what had been going on. Same with a lot of these docu-dramas, for many they bring to the fore total travesties of justice that are out there and not being dealt with fairly and urgently. Hillsborough was another instance.
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It was explained during the course of the Drama that suing the Post Office would be a very expensive business and they would have to get people who were willing to invest the money but they would take a a big cut. Quite how it reached over 40 million pounds I have no idea. The justice process is gradually working, albeit too late for some. I think they mentioned that about 100 people had received payments of £300,000 although even that probably doesn't really cover the loss of many. Although this is the cause of the moment there have been other famous cases where feet have been dragged. The Blood Scandal and Hillsborough spring to mind. Many, many years ago when I was a very junior manager my boss gave me the advice when dealing with complaints, especially if justified " When you have to Bow, Bow Low"
David
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It certainly did explain the situation, a legal system which is geared to the wealthy, the privileged and connected. If they have the money and hold sway with the influence, they can determine the direction, it not the result, of the process. As these episodes have shown, the system does not favour the little person, the simple or us ‘commoners’. It should favour no one! Maybe the worm is turning!
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Interesting read here, a man of principle!
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/lifestyle/tv/welshman-who-turned-down-obe-28362551
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I finally caught up with the "true story" film last night. The drama obviously followed the outrage closely. What I didn't realise, and found absolutely staggering, was how few of those convicted have had their convictions quashed so far and how little financial compensation they have received so far.
Hopefully the big talk coming out of government circles since the broadcasts will bring results and not just be more hot air.
As a slight aside, there was an interesting article in the Telegraph yesterday about Adam Crozier who was the head of Royal Mail at the time, so in theory even higher up the hierarchy than Paula Venelles. Not mentioned once during the drama .... but he did go on to become chief executive of ... er ... ITV!
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Not watched Mr Bates yer. But have been listening to the radio 4 investigations over the past few years. Should be available on BBC sounds. I'll try for a link.
A wholly disgusting state of affairs.... 😡
The Great Post Office Trail, unable to link it here. First broadcasts 2020.
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For that to happen wouldn't the Post Office have to admit they got it wrong in all cases? Perhaps the Official Inquiry will pave the way for that to happen? The people that had their convictions removed were part of a very expensive Group Action against the Post Office. I imagine its unlikely, given the cost, that the remaining sub post masters would be prepared or able to raise the money to bring another case?
David
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What a force of good this TV series is proving to be! But a formidable task remains.
Lest we forget though the sole owner of the Post Office is and always has been the Government , they for the whole duration of this sordid episode in history, have been self appointed Judge, Jury and ‘executioners’ to the wronged. What’s more they have covered up the truth, manipulated the truth and lied.I now read that the powers that be have recently, in the last few months, reduced the money set aside for correcting and compensating the atrocious wrongs metered out by half. They are still at it!
The unfortunate thing is that the cost of this travesty will be borne by us, the Tax Payers. Heads should roll for this alone but let’s not forget the human cost, the lives ruined or lost and those still petrified to come forward solely because they have been so atrociously bullied by those we all should be trusting of.The petition reached one million signatures last night and is still growing! Well done all but the wrongs are still to be righted in full.
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Yesterday we were assured that things were happening but still those games are being played. We were told by the PM it’s all history as it happened long ago in the 1990s.
The fact is that Horizon only rolled out in 1999. The deceit and consequences of those failures we hear of only came out in the 2000s when the coverups, control and coercion started leaking out about the alleged theft, fraud and false accounting.
THe PM also announced yesterday that a 600k interim payment is being made.It’s not interim, it’s a final payment with all those caveats in place to protect those individuals and bodies which have caused the problem in the first place.
Are we being continually mislead or does the PM really not have a grip on the situation or have an understanding of the situation.0 -
It’s shocking that it’s taken the TV programs and a petition to bring the issue to this level of prominence. We need to hope that the momentum can be maintained to keep the pressure on Govt.
Ministers are holding a meeting to discuss the matter this afternoon. We're told it’s been brought forward, implying they’d already planned to meet🙄.
Well done ITV. I hope they win every award possible for this.
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Yes, I hope so as well. There is just so much injustice, unfairness, borderline criminality, immorality out there at the moment.
Times past, the “little people” would have revolted, and been brutally dished out by those wielding power. Powerful media document-dramas, and documentaries help bring such injustices to a much wider audience nowadays, and then hopefully word is spread carefully and as honestly as possible by good social media, to try and get things done.
Deeply ironic, in view of the fact that it’s an ITV broadcasted programme that has lifted the plight and profile of the postal workers. Current head of ITV is Adam Crozier. He was CEO of Royal Mail when the prosecutions started back in the early 2000’s. as I said earlier, it’s a cliquey little World is that of CEO’s, sort of musical chairs for the connected.
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