Vloggers Experience of Metering
I came across this video on YouTube of a caravanner using electric metering on a CL. I think he was somewhat surprised at how much electricity he used and his comment about Club site prices is interesting. Have a look and see what you think https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ3-sG4rOlw
David
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Everyones usage will differ, depending on numerous factors.
We used meters on a couple of CLs in our Autumn trip. Both CLs allowed a small amount "FOC". First one in August. No problem of getting anywhere near the free amount of 12kw per day (a very generous amount). We used less than 4 per day, no gas used except for cooking. Second one at the end of September was slightly different. Only 6 kw per day free and weather quite cold with a cold easterly wind. Nevertheless we still only used an extra 6 kw over 4 nights.
We don't have heating on at all at night and like to be out and about for a good portion of daylight. We tend to keep the caravan at 18º until about 9 pm then switch it off. Back on at around 8 am.
I would anticipate using about 20-25% more in winter months. We still switch off overnight even in minus weather. Maybe we're unusual. (Don't care
).So metering for us wouldn't necessarily result in huge extra expense but can see that for some it would be a shock to the wallet and could very well put people off touring out of high season or warm weather at least.
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It just goes to show that using refillable LPG tanks is much more economical and the initial cost of the installation can quickly be recovered.
At today's price of LPG his £21 would have purchased a whopping 110 plus kWh's of LPG energy more than halving his expenditure for the same usage.
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That’s a very interesting vlog and insight into metered electricity. Yes, folks’ needs and wishes will be different but any measure to reduce frivolous and excessive use of energy must be good for both the pocket and the environment. I do agree with the vlogger when he says we are the little people and action should be concentrated on the wasteful big fish particularly when we do our bit too to limit and reduce energy consumption. Every little helps!
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We went through exactly this process when we stayed at Skybarn Farm CL for a week in March of this year. I suppose our van is fairly 'power hungry' - 8.1m x 2.5m - big fridge and freezer, Truma heating plus underfloor heating, electric towel rail, etc etc. It got down to -5 on the first night - although even then, we only have the heating set at about 14 degrees overnight. We used the van as 'normal' for the first 24 hours and used £10.70 worth of electricity (charged at 37p per unit). Nicola has dropped the nightly charge from £25 to £20 and then the metered leccy price is extra.
Needless to say, I was a bit shocked - especially as we hadn't been particularly extravagant. Thereafter, though, I ran the heating and water heating on gas (Safefill) and the average daily cost dropped to just over £5 - so back to square one, in effect. Can't be certain, but I'm guessing we used less than £10 worth of gas for the remainder of the week.
Repeated the exercise later in the year (October) when it was much warmer and our daily electricity charge worked out at £1.70 - so well in front even with gas costs taken into account.
Although I was slightly apprehensive about going on a metered site - now that I know what to do, I think it's an excellent idea.
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Agreed, those who have refillable gas and who have had experience of a metered site, perhaps abroad, will have no issue in leaving the big ticket items (fridge/freezer, heating, hot water, hot plate cooking!) to their cheap gas.
things will become a bit trickier for those who have small (6kg) gas bottles as these are very expensive per litre, thus causing some decisions between expensive gas and expensive electric.
It's generally accepted that a large fridge/freezer will use about 3-4kwh a day, which is likely to be the extent of any included allowance.
the sort of pitch discount the club seems to be offering as we move to a metered site isn't likely to be enough for folk (well, this folk for sure) to shrug their shoulders and 'just pay up' the leccy bill....
If this club move becomes the norm, I can see a few more folk doing a bit of investigation around pumped gas. we actually have one large refillable and a spare slot for one pre filled bottle, usually a large Spanish one, giving us the choice of pumped or bottled gas wherever we are, we are used to metered pitches abroad.
should folk turn to pumped gas they will soon realise that most heating systems are far speedier and responsive when using gas than with electric, another real benefit to put alongside the running costs mentioned above.
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I was preping my van for a long weekend away last week. I put the fridge and heating on on Wednesday morning (bitterly cold )set to 22C in the day, 16C at night. Over the two days until we left on the Friday morning, my smart meter and my energy company indicated I had used 24Kw above the norm, which at 42p per Kw came to £10. The temperature went down to -5C over night on Wedesday. and I was very happy to pay that to insure we had a nice warm van to go away in otherwise the first night away might have been rather chilly.
peedee
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I think the interesting thing about the video was the genuine surprise at how much electricity was used, to the vlogger and me! I suppose unfortunate that the trip coincided with very low temperatures which made the problem worse. There will be those on here who are used to being off grid who will suggest refillable cylinders, lowering the temperature of the heating etc, etc. However there are many members whose units are likely to max out the available power supply and if its included in the price will think nothing of it. It is only when they are faced with paying for it separately that they realise how much it is an element of the site fee which the vlogger alludes when wondering if site prices are actually not as high as we think if you take into account the electric use element?
David
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PD. In the preparation scenario you describe I would have done much the same as you but only over a around a 24 hour period. We have an Alde system with a engine heat exchanger. In most cases, even in sub zero temperatures I have found that within 30 minutes driving the whole van is toasty.
David. I was not surprised at the amount of electricity used. The van shown was not designed or built for use in very low temperatures. Thin poorly insulated walls and roof and a single floor are just not suitable. Frankly I found the Vlog disturbingly misleading mainly because the Vlogger seems to have very little understanding of the subject he chose.
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I can’t say I am that surprised. We like to keep our MH a similar temperature to the OP and also have a large fridge freezer. Although our van is somewhat smaller than the OP’s twin axle caravan, so may use a bit less. What it does clearly demonstrate is that most club sites are significantly underpriced in winter, out of the main peaks. There would seem to be little scope for significant price reductions if metering is brought in. Fortunately we have refillable gas so could take up that option. Those who don’t, might think twice about going away with nightly charges at £30 or so +£20 for electric.
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I'm amazed that anyone leaves the heating at 18C overnight. We normally turn ours off but in very severe overnight temperatures ( -5C) we do set the heating to come on at 5C.
If we feel cold in bed we just add another thin duvet. I normally have the opposite problem of overheating and spend most of the night, home and away, with my feet uncovered.
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What surprised me was how surprised the vlogger was. He thought his energy usage was not that profligate. I’d suspect his attitude and behaviour is pretty typical of many of us winter vanners. I must add though that a few of us do abuse the non metered sites energy consumption, maybe metering is the way forward, at least it will make many of us think!
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I don’t think many who use big modern, power hungry outfits have much idea beyond the basics of just how much electricity they use. Many folks like to tow/drive away a tiny replica of what they have at home, with all the gadgets, all the plug ins, all the convenience, all the warmth, and very little effort, and don’t fully understand that this is going to cost quite a bit to run. Nothing wrong with it if it’s your choice, but you either do the maths around running heating and a tower fridge freezer via gas or electric, and decide on what suits you best, or you don’t.
We are happy with metered pitches, if the differential on having hook up or not prices is realistic.
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Whilst I am equally amazed that anyone only sets it to come on at 5C. We are all different. I don’t have a problem with paying for what I use, if the CAMC go down that route and won’t be keeping the van any less warm, although might use gas more depending on the relative costs.
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I do wish people would do the maths around their power use also. For example some seem to think that a large LV fridge freezer is power hungry. In fact most use less than 200W, about only about 0.8A or just 0.2kW per hour electric and on gas (LPG) they use about 0.33kWh. Of course they only run as required, so in cold weather their consumption is much reduced.
As ever the provision of hot water and heating is the biggest power consumer and where the biggest economies can be made.
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I do wish people would do the maths around their power use also. For example some seem to think that a large LV fridge freezer is power hungry.
Whist in comparison to heating they aren’t a major player, in comparison to the standard fridges we had in both our caravans they are power hungry, particularly when using gas.
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As I said on gas (LPG) they use about 0.33kWh but don't run continually and that is not really a massive mount. What are your figures?
This year, during the hot weather in France we used less than 11kg / 22 ltrs of LPG in about 60 days. That covered water heating, a bit of cooking and running the FF. Total cost about £14. What are your figures?
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I think some are over thinking this. All the Vlogger was doing was contrasting sites where electricity is included in the site fees and what seemingly was a first experience of using a metered connection particularly at this time of year when temperature can dip below freezing both during the day and overnight. This is a situation that more and more people will be finding themselves in, especially during the past year or so with the energy crisis. This was a retrospective review that is being reported in this vlog which some might find useful. Having had that experience might well lead to doing differently in the future.
David
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"Having had that experience might well lead to doing differently in the future."
Exactly, David! Which is why we continued with our policy of using gas for heating / hot water later in the year when it was warmer and had overall power costs of little more than £3 per day (including gas) - so saving about £2 per day on the previous pitch fee there.
However - when at Bridlington in November - where we had already 'paid' the electricity costs with the pitch fee, we reverted back to using electricity for heating etc.
Methinks, the sooner CAMC roll our metering everywhere - and REDUCES the pitch fee accordingly, the better - then there's an incentive to minimise power usage.
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I was surprised he used so much electricity as the van looked fairly modern, certainly compared to ours! We do not have the level of insulation that vans built since 2009 have, so would use a lot of electricity if heating in very cold weather.
We are however aware of that, and used to metering abroad, so we would switch the heating to gas as we have refillables. We do not normally take the van out in winter, so the problem rarely arises.
What surprised me were the written comments claiming the owners were overcharging and that electricity could not possibly cost that much, people should check the prices that businesses have to pay, not assume it will be the same as in their homes.
I was also astounded at the temperatures he was setting his heating to!!
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According to age concern the recommended setting for a bedroom is between 16 -18c so I guess having the van set to 18c overnight is about right.
We have the house set to 19c during the day when we are active and 21c in the evenings up to 21.30, we don't have heating on overnight anywhere in the house.
In the van the heating is on higher more like 21c during the day (if we are in the van) then in the evenings we turn it up to 23c. Overnight in the van its set at 17c. We prefer to be comfortable and not have to site around dressed up like a snowman or have to use throws just to keep warm.
As to metered electric we have used metered sites abroad but not in the UK. I think its all about what price you will be paying per kwh and knowing just how much you do use.
I know in the warm weather with solar generation we can manage on 4kw per day. At home just for electric lights and appliances we average around 6kwh per day in the winter months when solar generation is very limited.
During the sunnier months with 10 panels our electric use is around 2 or 3 kwh per day. We tend to use the power hungry appliances like washing machine and dishwasher when the sun is out so that makes a big saving and of course electric light use is very minimal during the summer months.
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Tammygirl said:- According to age concern the recommended setting for a bedroom is between 16 -18c so I guess having the van set to 18c overnight is about right.
TG
That is quite interesting information and perhaps puts into perspective those that have heating on overnight in their vans. If you think that a house, especially a well insulated one, will loose temperature a lot slower rate than a caravan or motorhome you can understand why people keep the heating on, when they are away in the van. At what temperature you have the heating is, obviously, a personal choice. No point going away at this time of year and being uncomfortable?
David
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PD. In the preparation scenario you describe I would have done much the same as you but only over a around a 24 hour period. We have an Alde system with a engine heat exchanger.
LLM,I would have normally done the same but it was bitterly cold and the interior of the van, furnishings and bedding all needed to be warmed up and I needed time in the van to make everything ready.
peedee
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Agree DK, not only that a house is more thermally sound but the heating I think is more accurate.
In the caravans we've had the thermostat's have never been that accurate neither has either of the 2 MHs we owned.
The PVC that we now have isn't as well insulated (yet) as the Bailey MH we owned. On top of that I've noticed that when we set the the heating to say 22c because we are feeling it chilly, it rarely comes on and I have to turn it to 24c to get some heat. I have an independent thermometer in the van so always check one against the other. Of course it could be the thermometer that is wrong but I don't think it is. I believe we can adjust the control to Offset the difference but have not done so yet. I do know that the system is more effective on 2kw or gas.
There is no pleasure going away in winter in the van and being cold, just plain silly.
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We do not heat the house overnight, never have, so in the van we step the Alde down to 13/14 degrees overnight, Spring and Autumn, with it coming on at 18degrees in the morning as, perversely, the biggest radiator in the van is the one alongside the bed!
First person up, usually me, turns it up to 20. If out all day it goes back down to 18, but never off completely.
We would be uncomfortable in the house with 16-18 overnight.
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Yes I don't think I would like to sleep in the house with the heating at 16 - 18c but in the van we have it set to 17c and that seems about right (I think the actual temp would be about 15c).
It usually doesn't come on until about 5 am so I think we do alright + as I mentioned above the PVC isn't as well insulated (yet) as the caravan and previous MH was.
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In the house all are radiators have individual thermostats and timers. Our bedroom is set at 16C overnight. In fact it rarely comes on except in coldest weather, so obviously the normal temp is above that. If we are away when it is chilly we set the heater at 16C in the van. It is more like 15C when you wake up and we then immediately turn the thermostat up. If there was no heating I would be far too cold.
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"There is no pleasure going away in winter in the van and being cold, just plain silly."
agree not for us, in our dotage, we like the comfort of home too much and with much shorter days you are limited as to what you can do and lots of areas have hunkered down for the winter so not a lot going on.
we used to many years ago when we lived in Scotland and we were foot loose and fancy free, on one occasion on the club site at Braemar, we could not open the door as the snow had weighted down the porch awning and was blocking the door, and on several occasions we had to leave the caravan in the farm yard at the bottom of the lane as the lane was full of snow or just too icey
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Rufs, if we had a reason for going out in winter then we would and have done so in the past.
These days though we use the winter months to organise any work that needs doing around the home and garden, sort out admin
visit friends etc.In the winter it doesn't get light here until after 9am unless its a bright freezing cold day. So we take advantage of that and stay in bed much longer than we would in the summer months when its sunrise at something silly o'clock.
I quite like going round the shops in winter where as in summer I avoid them as I prefer to be outdoors.
Gone are the days I got up at 6am to throw myself down a mountain skiing or to muck out my horse and then go for a hack. The times I had to slide off the side of her as I couldn't feel my feet. Great memories but not for me nowadays.
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David, I watched the video with interest, we have used a CL with metered electric regularly over the last 5/6 year's. Cost of electricity was under £1 a day (without heating) when we first went, last visit it worked out at £2.87 per day (without heating) using the heating during spring and Autumn it has been more like £5-£6 per day, not sure of exact amount as I didn't note how much we'd used at the time, we also don't leave the heating on overnight. Not that surprised at the vlogger's winter usage.
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