Tow Car confusion - please help!
We're after a definitive answer that we can't seem to find anywhere. We're moving from the world of motorhoming to caravanning and are getting a caravan with 1350kg MTPLM and need to get a suitable tow car that I can also drive everyday (were a family of 3 so it doesn't have to be huge).
We (naively) thought we could find a car's towing capacity and if it exceeded the MTPLM then life would be good, but looking online it appears that the kerb weight of the car has to exceed the MTPLM of the caravan as well so with the recommended 85% rule we appear to be restricted to cars with a kerb weight of over 1600kg. This narrows down the options massively and having thought that Kia Sportage, Hyundai Tucson or Volvo XC40 would be suitable options as their towing capacity is greater than the weight of the caravan we are now having to rethink as their kerb weight is too low.
Can anyone provide a definitive answer on what we need to look for when searching for a tow car and what would be suitable for a caravan of this size. Thank you in advance.
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The law is that you must not exceed the car’s plated gross train weight when towing so you are technically correct in saying all will be well if the car’s towing ability exceeds the MTPLM of the caravan.
Consider though, that the car manufacturer’s stated towing max relates to its ability to shift a mass under test conditions and that is not the same as towing a slab sided white box on the M6 on a windy day or coping with hills in rural areas.
The MTPLM of the caravan not exceeding 85% of the kerb weight of the car is a recommendation, not a rule. However, the heavier the car is, the safer and more stable the outfit will be and, personally, I would look for a car with a kerb weight of at least 1600kg but it’s your choice.
The other weight factor to consider is nose weight. You need to ensure the car is capable of bearing the nose weight of the caravan.
Both motorhoming and caravanning have pros and cons and the towing weight conundrum can certainly be a headache.
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As Tinwheeler says, the important bit is "car’s plated gross train weight" and you must follow it.
It is not straight forward after that though. My 2019 1.5L petrol Audi A3 35tfsi is not your normal tow-car. It has an unladen weight of 1250kg, gross weight of 1840kg and max train weight of 3340kg. Towing limits are 1500kg and 1700kg, depending upon gradient. I've stuck with the 1500kg.
Despite my [low profile] van having an max limit of 1500kg I'm currently towing at around 1300kg and will be a little over 1350kg for a month away.
I load the van carefully, get nose weight around 60kg, have some heavy stuff in the car, keep to around 55mph and am very pleased. With this car and van I have towed around 1,000 miles. With this car and lighter 1200kg previous van I towed about 12,000 miles.
It is a difficult call as you want a car to tow well but not be a burden for the majority of the time you use it in solo mode.
If I was choosing a car again I cannot fault the engines ability would be very happy with the same vehicle, but I would consider it in something a little heavier if towing a normal height van. A Skoda Karoq would be at the top of my list as the vehicle footprint is still compact enough for everyday use.
Colin
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I can only echo what TW and Colin have said, but in my view if you don't have towing experience, then the heavier car you can buy, the better.
I have a Skoda Kodiaq which I find a good match for the 1500Kg Bailey we currently have and is excellent when driving solo. There is also a bit of leeway if I want to buy a heavier caravan in the future. Theres loads of space inside for the heavy stuff like awning and bottles which all helps increase the weight of the tow car. Skodas in general get good feedback from caravanners, and the Karoq that Colin refers to is currently the CAMC Tow car of the year.
The things to check are kerbweight, but also towball load. Some are low and I would go for a minimum of 100kg.
The other thing to double check if you need to retro fit a tow bar is that the car is plated to have one fitted. Some Skoda's aren't
Caravanwise, the worlds your oyster. You could look at the Bailey Discovery D4-4 at 1247kg. All proper dealers will assess your car/caravan combination before selling.
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This is worth a read
https://www.carwow.co.uk/guides/glossary/what-is-kerb-weight#gref
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“Theres loads of space inside for the heavy stuff like awning and bottles which all helps increase the weight of the tow car.”
Good thoughts, Timbo, but a newcomer to towing needs to remember the car also has a max vehicle weight and must not be overloaded in order to stay within the law and not to carry gas bottles in the car. The car also has max axle load weights as shown on the plate.
CAMC has given some advice on car/caravan matching in the Advice & Training tab near the head of the page.
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This seems quite helpful:
and there is a link to:
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I thought that's what you meant but considered it worth clarifying for the benefit of anyone who misunderstood👍🏻
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Certainly all the bottles we take (plastic and the perhaps the occasional glass one
) definitely all weigh more than the gas one! 2 -
I have rarely seen a link on the internet which is so grossly wrong, misleading and downright incompetent.
There is no such thing as DIN, EU, or Dry kerbweight. It doesn't even reference the way kerbweight is defined in UK legislation. That definition explicitly states that it's without the driver.
The definition referred to in DIN 70020 was withdrawn for road vehicles in favour of the international standard ISO 1176 in January 2006. Contrary to what the link says, the DIN figure did include the weight of a driver, albeit 80kg and not the 75kg that EU 'mass in running order' includes.
The EU has never used the term kerbweight so there is no definition of such a term in any of its regulations. It uses the terms 'mass in running order' and 'actual mass of the vehicle' and both those terms are defined differently to 'kerbside weight' as it is called and covered in UK legislation.
The term 'dry kerb weight' has never existed. It is called unladen weight in UK legislation.
Reading further, a standard Category B licence doesn't allow a combination weighing 8250kg, even if the licence was gained before 1 Jan 1997. To drive such an outfit requires a Category C1E licence which, however, those who passed their driving test before 1997 got under 'grandfather' rights. Otherwise, the limit on a Category BE licence (now also a B licence in the UK only) is 7000kg.
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The link 'Safe and Legal Towing' states, quote 'The total weight of your trailer must not weigh more than the car’s maximum towing capacity (MTC)'. That is also incorrect. The car's maximum towing capacity is the trailer's combined axle load, not its total weight.
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Exactly Lutz! That is the set up I have. My cars max towing capacity is 1500kg. The caravan MTPLM is 1550 and from careful weighing (with some items permanently removed such as carpets, table to offset some payload) and checking I am pretty spot on. The nose weight is 70kg giving an axle weight of circa 1480. The accusations I have had on another forum of bending the rules to justify breaking the law is unbelievable.
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So as someone new to caravanning how would I find out the trailers combined axle weight? It was complicated enough working with the car's kerb weight, the 85% rule, the tow bar limit and the car's towing capacity and now there appears to be something else to factor in to the equation. We thought the Kia Sportage would be suitable as towing capacity is 1650kg (caravan is 1331kg), but the kerb weight is only 1526kg so it would mean we would be towing at 88% rather than recommended 85%.
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I say again that 85% of kerb weight is a recommendation and not a rule. See my earlier post. 85%/88% - that’s probably near enough.
With due respect to Lutz, he is being a little over technical for this purpose and the early posts tell you all you need to know to comply.
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There is no 85% rule!!!!!!! It is a very old recommendation dating from the time before anti lock brakes, traction control systems, power steering and other driver and safety aids now fitted as standard. It is impossible to tell the difference when towing between 85 and 90% let alone 88%. It is just as important to ensure the nose weight is correct, tyre pressures checked, consider care with weight distribution in the caravan, car suspension in good order (no worn suspension components) and so on. It is clearly important you are legal and I personally would strongly recommend taking a towing course.
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As TW says, the 85% is a guide and not a rule.
My first caravan and car combo was 87%, so at 88% I would say you're fine. The kerbweight of a car is calculated with a 90% tank full of fuel and the driver at 75kg. If theres 3 of you plus luggage I expect that the real figure will be below the 85% guideline.
Theres loads of Sportages towing, and I looked at one my self a few years ago. You don't say how old it is, but have a look at some towing reviews. Heres one from 2017
https://www.practicalcaravan.com/reviews/kia-sportage
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laineyrose,
you could take your empty, as collected van to a weighbridge to get your starting weight.
You may be lucky in that your manufacturer has an on-line configurator so you can work this actual weight out. Eriba have such a facility on there website for their vans and as optional extras are added you can see the weight rise and the payload decrease.
With my first van I weighed everything that went in and kept a chart. of weights. I have continued to do this over the 5 Eriba's we have owned and so have a very good idea of what my actual weight is when driving off.
Colin
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I would challenge anyone to be able to detect a difference in the way an outfit handles at 88% instead of 85%. It's when you approach 100% and beyond where you have to be a bit more careful. Besides, kerbweight is not documented anywhere so any figure that one may have can be nothing better than a rough guide. The only way of establishing a really accurate kerbweight, if you need it, is to put the car on a weighbridge. By the way, contrary to common belief, kerbweight is defined without a driver. Any figure that states 75kg is included for the driver would be 'mass in running order', or 'mass in service' as it's called on the V5, although some sources incorrectly refer to it as kerbweight. Actual kerbweight will almost invariably be greater than the V5 figure because it includes all options and retrofitted equipment, such as maybe a towbar.
Yes, I admit to maybe being a bit over technical for some in that response but that doesn't excuse a website from publishing incorrect information.
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Agreed👍
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I like power as well as weight.
. We also towed an Eriba but with a 2.2 litre diesel Freelander.- for 12 years. The weight ratio was about 60% rather than 85%. That might seem overkill to some of you but we were rock steady on French autoroutes at 70 mph and the motor bike cops who flew by showed not the slightest interest. And of course we had the power to tackle a dozen big Alpine passes on holidays in and out of Switzerland.
And now I see others, underpowered, who struggle on the A30 either side of Okehampton. I wonder how they manage going south from Clermont Ferrand. What works in flat country doesn’t work everywhere.
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I’m with you two. You can’t beat a big beefy tow car which is why we always went for 4x4s in our latter years of towing. Terranos, a Disco, Sorentos and a Shogun all did the job with ease and no issues with using them as day to day cars either.
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Bear in mind, however, that a favourable weight ratio alone won't guarantee that you won't struggle on steep hills. One may be running at around 100%, but if you've got the power the drive can be just as relaxing. The other day I witnessed a VW Golf towing a really big single axle caravan up a fairly steep section of dual carriageway at a speed that left a number of other cars standing. I don't know what engine he had in it, but it was impressive.
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I towed at 100% with my Passat Alltrack and never had a problem on long climbs such as parts of the A9 to Inverness or driving through Bavaria and Austria. My current car and van is around 75% ratio and while it is less twitchy and a bit nippier, it isn’t so much I wouldn’t happily tow at 100% again.
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Indeed, my 1992 defender 90 (~1500kg) will tow my Ifor (3500kg). It will, but I wont', it's no fun being pushed down the road on drum brakes!
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+1 for what other have reiterated in that 85% is just a recommendation. I agree with TimboC in that in my opinion, the heavier car you can buy, the better.
I now tow with a Mercedes GLE so no towing issues issues whatsoever, and whilst its a fantastic driving solo (if driving a big car is your thing) it's not great fuel economy!
If going for a new vehicle triple check the compatibility of the towbar to an Alko hitch - i have been caught out with an Audi A4 before!
Happy Caravanning!
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