Wild overnight parking- Scotland
A move is a foot to ban overnight wild overnight parking in Sutherland and possibly across Scotland as a whole.
Comments
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yes saw that. Going to be interesting.
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Wild camping was never about motorhomes parking for free. It was originally intended for walkers pitching a small tent/bivouac as a means to access the more remote hills. Why do those who pay a substantial amount for their motorhome feel they need to find free overnight (or longer) pitches?
I should say that I am certainly not anti motorhome (I own one), however nothing is free. At some point all the “wild campers” will need fresh water and to dump their grey and black water. Where are they intending to do that?
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Good, I hope it happens and soon. The damage and pollution from inconsiderate, selfish, ignorant wild camping motorhomers is horrendous in places. I have friends and family in the highlands and they are sick of clueless motorhoming tourists ruining the countryside from leaving behind their detritus and selfish driving and parking. Water courses polluted, public toilets having to be closed due to damage and blocked from emptying toilet cassettes is only the start, If people can afford a motorhome, they can afford the cost of a proper camp site.
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Ok, they go for 3 or 4 days before they they need to come down to earth, let’s hope that the responsible ones then go to a campsite rather than just dump their waste at any secluded spot. Why is there such a backlash from local residents against the motorhomers who do not seem to have the first clue about responsible behaviour.
The “stunning places” to which an earlier responder refers to have no facilities, but the free parkers seem to think that they can pitch up and have no effect. No doubt, they will all claim that they leave no trace, however it only takes a smaller few to see that free parking is available then the problems start.Nothing is free. The days when a few campers in tents or vans would pitch up then move on are long gong. We all need to take to take responsibility for our actions, and “free camping” should not be viewed as a cheap, no impact, alternative to going to a proper campsite.
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The petition to get motorhomers to go to a caravan site was started by the owners of a caravan site. Surprise, surprise. And here’s a photo of it. No wonder motorhomers would rather park elsewhere. So would I.
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I understand what you are saying but there are the responsible ones out there. I remember as an early twenty something taking my home converted camper to wild places, off the beaten track, so that very early dawn starts, sometimes predawn starts to climbs and Monroe baggings could be made. The locals then were both helpful and welcoming and we spent money in these remote corners of Scotland, some places well off the usual tourist trail. This latest move to ban wild parking comes from caravan site owners and not necessarily from the locals. Please note that a few can spoil it for the rest, that I understand but we shouldn’t tar all with the same brush, there are the good ones about. Afterall, moving a van on site at three o’clock in the morning to get to the start of a climb wouldn’t go down well with those enjoying the peace and quiet and a lie in would it!
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In the 70’s we used to visit the far northwest and wild camp using tents ( still permissible) and on one occasion in a camper van. The big difference then was that there were far fewer folk doing it and to an extent it was sustainable. This is no longer the case, there are just to many wanting to visit these stunning places. Chargeable Aires, possibly provided by the local community, with basic facilities, are to my mind the answer. In my opinion wild camping with vehicles should be outlawed and the ban policed.
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Link from Visit Scotland NC500 website.
Can you wild camp?
You can! Wild Camping is legal in Scotland however there are guidelines to follow and these are simply; act responsibly, be safe and respect the area on which you decide to stop! There is more info available here. Please note that Wild Camping does not apply to motorised vehicles such as campervans or motorhomes.5 -
It can be the case if that wild parking place is way off the beaten track and only visited by the few with good cause for being there and leave no trace. Like the climbers and walkers accessing remote routes. As has been said it is still legal in many places, we shouldn’t let the lazy, littering antisocial folk spoil it for the true outdoor pursuitists amongst us should we. Maybe the Aires idea or a registered licence that has to be apply for with a certificate displayed in the leisure vehicle allowing folk to wild park may be a solution. The latter is employed in various national parks and wild places abroad. Banning it completely will not happen, the mountain sports fraternity is too large and too long established to be ignored or bullied in this way. Those that spoil it for others I’d argue are not those I mention, those without regard should of course be discouraged and even prevented from wild parking or even prosecuted if they abuse the countryside and communities within.
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The group, which is due to report its recommendations at some point this year, is exploring the provision of aires – free or low cost motorhome camping areas
I'm sure they understand the economics of the boom in motorhome touring and forcing owners to use sites with facilities most do not need or are away from attractions will not be the answer. There are now many more official motorhome overnight parking places in Scotland than there were and I see that set to continue in the coming years.
peedee
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I'm following through FB the travels of my Italian relations who I go motorhoming with when over there.
They are working their way north to escape the 30 and often very 40C heat back home. At the moment they are in the Netherlands (and will heading even further north) and I repost their translated words:
Approaching Rotterdam today to continue on to Amsterdam. First timid taste of the low temperature of the North Sea with subsequent forced break in Shedrecht guests of the Nescio farm as all the campsites are absolutely full (and the "free" break entails a €400 fine!). Walk along the canals to visit windmills up close restored and still efficient despite being almost 500 years old.
So it would appear that staying anywhere with a MH apart from campsites, aires, and other specified allowed places there could get you a 400 euro fine? I've asked for further details but FYI.
Post edit just checked a few other websites and this appear to be the case.
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ET
Exactly my own thoughts when I read it. It completely lacks credibility, more like self interest?
There must be thousands of motorhomes and campers that visit the NC500 (as an example) each year and cause no adverse effect to the environment even if they do park/camp off piste. It seems to me that that those that have a fundamental dislike of people parking where they choose have to find examples of the quite small number of people that do disregard the common sense rules. We should also remember that the promotion of routes like the NC500 came originally from local tourist boards but of course, like Topsy it kept growing and growing probably to the point where it was unsustainable. The answer is to provide more facilities which can be done in a number of ways not always to the cost of the locals. There must be loads of businesses that have the room to allow parking for a modest fee and maybe a few facilities. The trouble is someone has to organise it and really that has to be some official body.
David
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We visited D&G last year, and used quite a few of the free and very low cost overnight stay areas that are legal for campers and MH’s. From our experience, I would say that the only problems we had were with overseas visitors (Swiss in our case) and those in hired outfits. They totally ignored the concept of only a given number of outfits being allowed, and the spacing between outfits. Forestry Sites, the lovely little Aire at Kircudbright, everyone behaving and paying.
Scotland has a lot of hire companies. Easy enough to spot a hired camper, if they are misbehaving, simply make a note of outfit details and pass onto local community area/police and let them deal with it at source. Report to hire firm, fine if appropriate, they can pass on fine to hirer’s.
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So it would appear that staying anywhere with a MH apart from campsites, aires, and other specified allowed places there could get you a 400 euro fine? I've asked for further details but FYI.
Post edit just checked a few other websites and this appear to be the case.
It has always been illegal to wild camp in the Nertherlands as it is in some other countries. However the Netherlands, like the UK is seeing a boom in motorhome ownership and has this year established 45 offical motorhome aires already this year.
peedee
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Good for them. Sounds a good plan.
Although according to my source there it's not enough. They're moving north out of the country asap.
'They're crazy, 'cause the motorhomes (italians expecially) are absolutely more and more than available slots in campsites! 😡'
(Translated)
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"They're crazy, 'cause the motorhomes (italians expecially) are absolutely more and more than available slots in campsites! 😡'
this is becoming the case in some areas of Spain during the winter months. When we were there this winter gone, sites were rammed with MH's especially German, French & Dutch, the site we were on had converted the playing field into pitches for MH's, massive fire risk, you could shake hands with your neighbour thru the window, in fact there was a bad fire early this year at Bolnuevo campsite in Mazarrón when several MH's were completely burned out, this was not just a few apparently a whole row were burnt out, suspect gas cooker in 1 unit.
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That was our opinion when we checked it out the other year.
Lovely area, smashing beach but the site was unruly. Units parked to close to each other, awnings facing with windbreaks joining them to their ' friends' not for me.
Yes the complaint came from site owners, no surprise. Not enough sites to cope with the hordes during summer, not profitable in winter. More Aires are planned but it all takes time.
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The same problem applies in the Lake District with illegal overnight pitching up in car parks, especially around the Keswick area. V
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I think this is an issue for which there's no silver bullet. However, on a few points raised in this thread....
We once again see the application of the the type of sweeping generalisation and narrow minded nonsense that attempts to tar all motorhomers with the same brush. Reading the article in the Northern Bugle/Star/Echo Trumpet in which the owners of Dornoch Camping site feature, (I've also perused the court case documentation), they accuse Motorhomers of leaving rubbish, dumping dirty water, and (I quote), "Defecating by the Roadside". I, (and I'm sure many hundreds of thousands of other Motorhomers), have never had the want/need/desire to relieve myself by the roadside - generally decent people don't I think. This practice is completely abhorrent, and has no place in a society where Homo Sapiens can stand up straight and wipe its own behind. If we're away for a few nights, we carry a spare cassette, and manage the situation by seeking out a service point - Dornoch have one apparently ! (you have to laugh) to empty Grey and Black - I have never randomly dumped our grey waste anywhere other than via the correct facilities. Certainly not into water courses - again, the perpetrators should be burnt ! (Sorry).
On the issue of inconsiderate, selfish, ignorant, "wild camping"...nope, not me either. If we're not on a site for a night, we park discreetly, away from view, or in an area where over-nighting is permitted.
Leave no trace/impact..Not entirely possible I agree, as all vehicles leave tyre tracks, but we always do our best to leave the place as we found it. We treat everywhere we stay with the upmost respect, and attempt to treat everyone we meet in the same way.
"If people can afford a motorhome, they can afford the cost of a proper campsite".
Completely agree, but purely in our case, (although I'm sure many other MH owners will agree), this statement misses the point. We're lucky enough to own a new-ish Motorhome, and so can of course afford to pay for a campsite....but sometimes we just don't want to. We enjoy being able to park, (But not poo), in the woods. It provides the sense of freedom that forms a large part of why we love our "Van".
Finally, I'd like to re-raise a regularly mooted solution. One answer could be to roll out more Aire type facilities, or to in some way enlighten land owners of the benefits of allowing MH parking overnight, by charging a few quid to let us park up, top up our water and empty the loo, or none of these....huge carparks stand empty overnight the length and breadth of the land. That, or a few of the more forward thinking local authorities/village committees to provide free services, in the hope (although I realise some people wont spend a penny more than is necessary), that the clientele spend a few quid in the local pubs and shops - a'la French model. This of course would require investment, times are hard right now, and there's always the risk that lowlifes will leave their "Detritus" lying around the place. However, as a viable alternative this would maybe help to relieve the pressure on the small rural communities that are the victims of the less considerate Motorhomer, and put a few pounds in the kitty at the same time.
And finally.....its probably worth acknowledging that some people just dont like Motorhomers. In the same way that some people don't like, Caravans, Motorbikes, Cars, Cyclists, Wasps, Warm Beer, Northerners, Southerners, Prawn Cocktail Crisps and Cucumber. People as they say, are people (Apart from the ones that poo at the side of the A9).
Happy travels everyone !
Moderator comment: Post slightly edited.
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Nice post, Matt...lots of good points. We can't expect everyone to 'get it' but you've made your points in the right spirit.👍
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I am not against motorhomes, we are considering buying one in a few years. I also agree provision of Ares type locations should go hand in hand with tightening (banning) wild camping legislation for motorhomers. Unfortunately too many selfish motorhomers have seriously damaged the reputation in the eyes of too many inhabitants of the highlands. There are lots of things I like doing but the law doesn’t allow - such as riding green lanes on a motorbike but a selfish minority got it banned for the majority.
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We took part in a survey whilst we were up in D&G last year. Local authority staff member out and about talking to visitors, and locals, about utilising more off road parking spots for legal overnight stopovers. Some places and local communities have made a real effort to welcome campervans and MHs.
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".....huge carparks stand empty overnight the length and breadth of the land."
this is one of the most frustrating things for MHers who just want a safe place to overnight....and is one of the simplest ways that places like France accommodate (welcome) passing vans to local communities.
No height barriers, a few (6-10?) marked places away from cars if need be, no specific provision for services (but there often is...it makes sense to allow drain and top up). Car parks often have toilets so water (and sewage) access for a MHSP is comparatively easy to integrate into existing infrastructure.
a typical village stopping place might be in a church car park, where two or three vans might tuck themselves away, pretty much undetected bar a Sunday. We've used loads of these.
I posted a photo earlier this week in the hedges thread...an aire near Fougères, just a car park with a dozen wider spaces, delineated with small hedges and a service point...there were several vans there enjoying the hospitality of the lovely village. We had our last evening meal out there prior to the ferry next day.
not only was the aire convenient, the local council had provided a board with information regarding other local Aires they were responsible for and how to find them...
just a simple thing but is all about attitude.
There are two ways for an authority to 'deal' with MHs...
in my experience (15 years of continental travel using all sorts of MH stop over points) if vans are welcomed, folk respect what's been provided and do respond by not abusing things and they spend time (and money) in the community.
If notices have a different 'flavour' (go away, height barriers, punitive charges etc...) folk will do just that and cross these places off their 'lists' and soon spread the negative word...
note the wording on the notice....
"Welcome to Le Coglais, also discover 9 other lovely free Aires within 15 minutes of here"....says a lot.
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I think much of the damage (to countryside and MH reputation) has been done by newcomers to MHs, or MH renters during and after Covid. They probably don’t belong to the CMHC anyway, do not read pages on here either so live in ignorance of best practice, Tent campers have also done a lot of damage, with no facilities at all for their waste of any kind.
Controls are bound to be imposed, the price of ignorance and laziness which conscientious people finish up paying on our over-crowded islands.3
