Late availability
Just received a mail from the club detailing almost every uk site having availability in august.
in 40yrs of membership i have never seen this level of empty pitches
so i looked at booking 9 nights and was amazed that some days had low availability and therefore were £5 a night dearer than the next night, in all 4 different prices
how do they expect members to take up empty pitches when they are charging more than the normal nightly rate, they should be reducing the prices if they want sites full.
Comments
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Apparently this is the Club's take on Dynamic Pricing...
some think prices should be at their lowest if you book early. The Club seemed to promote this.
some think prices should tumble if pitches sit empty the day before arrival. The Club also 'suggested' prices 'might' come down if circumstances dictated. I've not seen any evidence of this so far.
What we have seen, in abundance, is the almost daily arrival of emails promoting sites with vacancies, special offers (discount codes rather than the actual reduction of prices that members see on the app/website) and other 'promotions'.
I can't say whether this approach is 'Dynamic Pricing'....as mentioned in the OP, I just see the same myriad price points (for the same pitch) and a flurry of 'offers'.
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Not having looked at the main sites for a while, out of curiosity I decided to check a couple. We're interested in going to the New Forest in September. Never been before.
Couldn't believe the prices! For mid September one site was £45, the other £48! That's for HS with EHU, 2 adults. I don't consider that vfm. No wonder we keep getting the emails trying to get us to book sites, because there are still pitches available, judging by various posts I'm not the only one who won't pay those prices.
Thank goodness for CLs 👍
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Problem is it’s difficult to please all of the people all of the time. Apparently members asked for deposits because they could never get a booking of 9 nights at this time of year due to speculative booking. Now there seems to be abundant availability. In practice under the old system bookings might have been cancelled at the last minute, particularly at the moment with the atrocious summer weather. The site we are on currently has been about 60% full, now rapidly filling as it’s Friday. Whether it would have been any fuller under the old system is debatable. Personally I think with this weekends forecast it is likely there would have been less arrivals, as now cancelling would mean loss of deposit.
Comparisons with the last few years are also fairly meaningless given the covid affect. I struggle to remember how full the sites were in 2019 compared to now, but at the ones we have used I don’t believe there has been a lot of difference and what difference there is may well be the result of belt tightening due to the current economic situation.
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"Whether it would have been any fuller under the old system is debatable."
Well, there will always be a reason for folk to review their touring habits, economic situation, Covid etc...even a change to booing conditions, but on here it seems to be 'prices, prices, prices' that bring new posters to opening threads..
as Ina mentions, the two New Forest sites are pretty well up the CAMC price ladder...BK is nice, well located but is anything but cheap. T'other is not well placed for cycling south (A 35 unfriendly) and our single trip there (a few years back) led to an 'unfavourable' verdict....and that was before the hikes over the last three or four years.
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but on here it seems to be 'prices, prices, prices' that bring new posters to opening threads..
Folk will always find something that they don’t like, lack of availability / block booking used to be the “in” moan, currently it’s prices. Only time will tell if the CAMC have got it right. Whilst higher than they were, they are not significantly different to a lot of other providers, including the C&CC, unless you qualify for the oldies discount. Pricing a site in the Cotswolds recently, the C&CC was a pound more, as during August the age related discount didn’t apply. Yes I know you can do it cheaper, but many want a a full site with facility block and 16 amp EHU.
Personally I think the big mistake the CAMC have made is syncing the price rises with the introduction of deposits. I was happy to pay the premium for their unique terms and conditions. However, if I’m going to loose a deposit it might as well be to the C&CC who most of the time are significantly cheaper, for us at least. Although of course the site has to be where we want to go.
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Steve, I think the Club created its own perfect storm in resolving the one major issue it considered that customers had...difficulty in booking sites....by introducing a new booking system, the requirement for deposits and the unfavourable (for members) change of cancellation and amendment terms.
add in 'dynamic pricing' (the inevitable pushing of prices ever higher) and this was probably two steps too far for some.
Of course the financial situation hasn't helped either and there are now plenty of folk thinking very hard about their vanning holiday, perhaps reluctant to commit in the way they did due to the new terms regarding refunds or the lack of ability to change their bookings at short notice should circumstances demand it.
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I think you have it totally correct YT.
As far as we are concerned the Club has lost its USP, so we are no longer using Club sites, after being members since 1998. We remain members to use CLs, but also use CCC sites and commercials.
As Pensioners on a fairly fixed income, we have to consider VFM, and for us , Club sites are no longer VFM.
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The new booking system seems to have met the objectives (suggested by many members BTW) of improving availability, so surely a good thing? The T&C's are no harsher than other organisations and in fact marginally better than the C&CC. OK it will take a bit of getting used to but used to it we will get! There might be the odd private campsite out there that will take a booking on trust but they are rare and most of them want full payment 4/6 weeks before arrival. So whilst the CMC might have lost some of its USP it is better than many. I think we will see the booking system evolve and I wonder if the introduction of a 10% deposit will actually become the norm for deposits rather than just an occasional offer?
Pricing is a different matter. Personally I would prefer to know what the price of a site is without it changing depending on the number of bookings. I think dynamic pricing should end.
David
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".....but used to it we will get!"
it depends who 'we' is.....we certainly are used to it, it took 5 minutes of the change in conditions and the price rises 'for electricity' (several pounds) followed by the latest reductions for metered pitches (a pound or two) to realise things had moved a considerable distance (on the wrong direction) in a very short time....
result, 'we' don't do CAMC sites anymore....(we'd actually stopped well before this) ....sites just are not VFM.
there may well be many more 'we's who have decided on the same course.
However, there might be some more new 'we's to take our place, perhaps who don't have any history of prices....I think the club will need these to replace the 'established' members who are just using their membership for CLs and for other 'benefits'.
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Correct again YT as far as we are concerned. We do not use CAMC sites any more, have not used any in the last 2 years.
The hiked up prices are too much for us, we would rather go with more reasonable prices even if we have to pay up a bit ahead of arrival. Which is not always the case as it happens.
With lower prices and lower deposits there is anyway less to lose should we have to cancel, which fortunately has not been the case so far.
I cannot see that we will ever use a CAMC site again.
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I don't mind the the new terms, as DK points out they are better than most. Whether it is the economic situation or the result of deposits, it has resulted in greater availability which as far as I am concerned as a member of a touring organisation, it is a good thing for those who like to arrive on site at short notice. The killer for me is price. Even before the new system came into being I was questioning the value for money of sites, more so for short stays, and using less and less C&MC sites with every passing year. With the latest increase and the lack of sensible offers, it is even easier to find better value elsewhere or to decide to accept a lower grade of site rather than pay for expensive facilities I do not need.
peedee
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I remember booking many a holiday with lastminute.com and others at the very 'last minute'...often a few days before take off...
I didn't know what the name of this process was but perhaps now it might be called 'dynamic pricing'...the sudden lowering of the price to sell a few seats/tickets that would not otherwise be sold.
when the DP system was introduced with the club, I (obviously naively) thought that unsold pitches 'on the day, or day before' would drop, giving those on impromptu tours (and those that just look out of the window to check weather and go) to fill the unsold empty spaces.
this hasn't happened and we get much anecdotal info here these days of sites with many spare pitches in 'peak' weeks, previously unheard of.
yes, the change to deposits and cancellation terms has achieved the aim of 'freeing up pitches' but has it gone too far?
I do plenty of 'touring' (from site to site) but having to put this all together months in advance is not for us and we are probably the total opposite of those who 'love to plan'...
our decisions are usually made on the morning of travel or the night before and we would be just the sort of customers to snap up pitches at short notice....at a decent reduction.
as this isnt happening via DP (the club uses targeted 'offer' emails instead with tight terms) we use other options....CL and THS which work better for us.
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I do wonder sometimes whether the CAMC have actually come to terms with the change in membership.
Yes, they changed the name to incorporate Motorhomes but they still seem to pitch their prices and offers (no pun intended) at the caravan towing member, who doesn't usually tour on spec, well not like yourself YT. We certainly don't as I don't want to be carting around a caravan without being able to have a final destination booked.
Funnily enough we first saw the change in ownership in France a good few years ago. 20-30 years ago Municipal sites were full of Mom and Pop caravans of quite some age and then the Government started changing holiday times for schools across various departments. Suddenly younger families wondered what to do with their holidays and add in more retiring folk who didn't want a caravan and the Motorhome ownership blossomed.
This is what has happened here, partly due to covid but also Campervanning now being cool enough for younger people to own and explore.
It seems that if the CAMC did fully embrace DP they would maybe attract more Motorhomers.
I speak as a caravan owner of 30+ years so hopefully provide an unbiased view.
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WN, some good points.
We do usually have somewhere in mind to go, but don't have this sorted way before we leave for the first site. With CLs and THS being so easy to visit....there will be space at a CL or and alternative close by...this isn't always the case with a (either) club site as there are far fewer to choose from.
I won't be paying £40-£45 a night as I don't see a pitch and a shower as being enough to warrant that level of cost.
We do 'do' destination sites further afield, with indoor and outdoor pools, bars, restaurants and other 'service elements' not normally available at sites here....the icing on the cake is that we would be paying less than half of the above prices for a night at one of these sites.
Over here we can 'CL' for £20 (with electric) or 'THS' for about £12 a night without. Happy to do either as we might even be closer to where we want to be, certainly both these types of site don't need the same planning permissions as full sites and therefore often end up closer to towns or even in the case of THS sites (which use School or RFC sports grounds) actually right in the town.
I don't see the need to spend an extra £20-£33 a night for 'facilities' that we have on board..
as you say, France is MH heaven and a few weeks touring there in one might give CAMC mgt an insight into 'what it's all about'.
changing the name and adding the odd drive over waste doesn't change the attraction for us, not without a serious reduction in prices for last minute arrivals..
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changing the name and adding the odd drive over waste doesn't change the attraction for us, not without a serious reduction in prices for last minute arrivals..
I would change that statement to a serious price reduction in short stays. It is positively bonkers to pay £40 -£45 for a single night stop over perhaps arriving after 4p.m. and leaving the next morning. What facilities are you going to use in that time for that kind of money! I very often don't even need water but I do prefer to dump waste, no matter how little there is, before getting on the road again. I would have to be pretty desperate to pay that kind of money even for a two night stay let alone one night only or it would have to offer something more attractive than the majority of C&MC sites.
peedee
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".....or it would have to offer something more attractive than the majority of C&MC sites."
PeeDee, I think this is the point....whilst location is probably the number one reason for being on a site in a particular place, this can be achieved by staying at a CL or other stopping place for far less than the price of a club site.
I don't get the attraction (to the tune of an extra £30) of the 'facilities' on a club site. Yes, the showers are generally OK (but a long way short of some we have used) and the pitches are also OK (again, is a patch of gravel anything to get excited about?) but that's really it.
A few times a year we use a commercial site in a fairly upmarket town which is close to a Club site. The prices are similar but the commercial has nicer pitch spacing (in small, hedged areas) a pool, a bar, a restaurant, lakeside walks, a well stocked shop (groceries and camping kit), several dedicated office staff, ANPR entry, a large drive over waste and MHSP well away from other traffic, it's closer to the town....
in this case, the town/site becomes a 'destination' with things to do both on and off site.
If Club sites offered a few of these things we might be tempted to use their sites more but with such a meagre basic offering at current pricing levels this won't happen.
whilst I respect others' use of Club sites, for us there doesn't seem to be anything to pull us away from a CL in the same location. Charging twice as much for (effectively) the same parking space and loo/shower doesn't seem like the sort of VFM we are looking for.
someone mentioned an alternative for the Broadway site, Northwick Farm. So I checked it out...nothing in it distance wise to the town, an easy walk.
checking prices requires contacting the site but they are from £25 for a van and two people. We don't do awnings, dogs or other potential extras which might skew things so it's a straight comparison...
Broadway is over £51 for a HS for two people this coming Saturday....🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
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…..but we all know what ‘from’ means in terms of site pricing.
Btw, I looked at Polmanter’s website yesterday. £61 p/n at present (can’t remember what sort of pitch that was - gold plated I imagine) and going up to £68.50 for the same period next year and their T&Cs make CAMC’s look really lenient.
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And have a look at BB's past recommended site of Concierge Camping, makes the club's prices appear very cheap indeed.
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'It is positively bonkers to pay £40 -£45 for a single night stop over perhaps arriving after 4p.m. and leaving the next morning'
Shouldn't you rephrase that to it's positively bonkers for you? Others may see it as a very good choice using a better site with better quality. You're taking you view and applying it to all?
Seen it done many times (even on service pitches) in fact happened twice near us this week, and yes there's a few CL and CS nearby Why should these people be classed as bonkers as they don't conform to your preferred touring habits?
We are often told there are cheaper and better sites out there, if this is true why are there so many posts about club prices and alternatives? Surly just choose the site and prices that suits you?
Or is it that those that use club sites are making some mistake and club site users must be informed of this?
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I understand DP and can see benefits to business such as air travel, larger budget hotels and so on. I don’t have a problem with seasonal pricing or even for peak bank holiday times. If the club are going to use it then do it properly but I am not sure DP is suited to a camping and caravanning. As others have inferred if DP is working properly then surely there should be price drops for last minute (same day) booking of vacant pitches? I don’t however see the benefit in operating with loss leader pricing unless it is tied to other purchases (bookings) that offset the losses, that could be a dangerous path to take.
Unfortunately this is all the symptom of a business run by committee rather than a true board of directors, with club members taking the place of what would normally be shareholders. Maybe a better business model is to change to a cooperative or have site managers with similar employment contracts to hotel managers (with occupancy/profit related bonus) and some degree of local decision making on pricing and last minute deals.
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Flatcoat. I'm sorry but I think that the last paragraph of your last post shows a lack of understanding of the structure of the club and how it is managed. Also a little disrespectful to the Nonminated Members who give up their time and are not paid, to engage with the Club Council on behalf of all members. If other members don't think that the current Nonminated Members are not doing a good enough job don't complain on CT put your name forward, give up some of your time and replace them.
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Some people just seem unable to grasp the fact that we are all free to spend our 'hard earned' as we see fit.
Is it 'positively bonkers' to book a serviced pitch when perfectly acceptable, and cheaper, grass pitches are available?
What about buying a brand new Merc when a second hand Skoda will get you there just as quickly, or eating at a fancy restaurant when theres a chip shop just around the corner? Are they 'bonkers' too?
When I visit a site I see all sorts, from Motorhomes towing cars costing £100k plus to knackered cars and caravans that are months away from the scrap heap. At Damage Barton recently, there was an old Volvo that had a tent on its roof, and the occupants were having a whale of a time. I had a long chat with them, and at no point did they suggest I was 'bonkers' for wasting my money on a caravan.
So, which of these things are 'better'?. Which are 'superior'? What is it that makes a given individual think that they have found the perfect way to go about the hobby that we all enjoy?
We all have our own reasons for how we spend our time and money, and that should be respected.
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Some people in the world of social media Timbo live in a perfect world in which they believe all must follow
Went to visit Damage Barton today, was it that quiet when you were there?
JK
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i respect your right to spend your money as you see fit, but I do think that you could consider that all members are not as fortunate as you are.
We are sort of "middling", in that we could afford some Club sites, if we cut down on our time away. However, we do not choose to do that, so we have stopped using CAMC sites, but remain members to use CLs. We also use CCC sites, which work out less expensive for us, and a few commercials.
We feel that those who use exclusively Club sites, which is of course up to them, are probably saying it is OK for the Club to hike up prices as much as they wish, they will still pay them. This to us does not seem in keeping with this being a "club".
The Club is of course not a charity, they need to cover costs, but in a time of economic stress, could they not postpone improvements to sites, and especially the acquisition of new sites?
What do ordinary people do in this situation? Speaking for ourselves, we have cut down on unnecessary spending, made economies where possible. We do have a fixed amount of income and need to cover essentials first. Should the Club not do likewise?
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Thats why I don't do Social Media JK. I was quite shocked when I used Twitter years ago to find that some people I had respect for were actually quite abhorrent.
We were at DB in June during the hot spell, and it was busy. All the CAMC pitches were taken.
Interestingly, non of the cheaper grass pitches without EHU were occupied.
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With respect, you have no idea how 'fortunate' I am. You don't know what sacrifices we make in order to enjoy the hobby that we love, what car we drive or the size of our house.
Your opening paragraph suggests that money isn't a consideration for us, which it most certainly is. What makes you think that we aren't 'middling' too, or even lower?
The point of my post was to highlight the fact that choice prevails, and that an individuals choice should not be criticised or ridiculed, which seems to be how many posts seem to be heading.
We too are 'ordinary' people.
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Are we your fellow members not ordinary in your eyes then K?
JK
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"We feel that those who use exclusively Club sites, which is of course up to them, are probably saying it is OK for the Club to hike up prices as much as they wish, they will still pay them."
I am certain that nobody on this earth is saying that, Kj.
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