Worried for the club (price rises}
I am genuinely worried that the club has gone the wrong way in pricing pitches. In previous years it was near impossible to book a full week or weekend to our favourite sites. Now the prices have risen I could book any week or weekend from today 30/7 onwards. Are the responsible people taking note? You could argue to the cows come home but check for yourselves. Loads of availability. Sorry.
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Could be prices or equally it could be the new T&C with deposits, which have certainly in my view made pitches available at shorter notice, or maybe a bit of both, who knows?
But what's to worry about or be sorry about. More pitches now available.
And we're always told better and cheaper sites out there anyway?
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Chatsworth is one of our favourite sites, but I’m afraid the club is now charging far too much. The site itself is tired and not much to write home about, but of course you have access to the wonderful parkland. Right now for handstanding with awning & hookup for 2 people, £52, full service pitch is £59.
I stayed at lakeside full service pitches in very nice independent sites with free Wi-Fi (and it worked - we could even stream Netflix) for £32 a night. I’ve just booked a week away in 2 adult only independent sites with great facilities for around £31 a night, with onsite shops and lakeside views and free Wi-Fi.
I’m afraid the club need to really think hard about their pricing. It does not feel like a club being run for our benefit any more. I’ve recently been on 2 CLs for £13 and £15 a night.
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Kaanie, My evidence is only from friends, neighbours and extended family, but a very varied group.
Some are worried about money right now - inflation, rents and mortgages and food and fuel costs. The price of Club pitches is totally irrelevant as they can’t afford to buy a caravan in the first place - let alone insure it, service it and store it. They have switched to the cheaper supermarkets and are not having a holiday of any sort this year.
But some others are very comfortably off and are cramming the airports and the ferries. Just in the group I mentioned there are people who are visiting Austria, Montenegro, Spain, France, Thailand, Turkey and Mexico. So the price of Club pitches is totally irrelevant to them too. They don’t go caravanning at all.
I don’t think either group are affected by the price of a pitch on a caravan site and I can’t see it changing.- so I’m not surprised Caravan sites have vacancies.
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Interesting article about Which magazine research into how population of UK is coping with the cost of living crisis……
Outfit ownership, and Club fees are a far away dream for most folks I guess.
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Yet Chatsworth is full on SP and SSP for half the month of August, the rest are all lows, and you won't get a weekend till mid October on HS with awning pitch (more choice on non awning but even then no weekends till mid August and lows after that) so is the club really charging too much for SP and HS with awning there?
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As I've reported elsewhere, we were at the NYM site last week and whilst it would be an exaggeration to say it was empty - it wasn't far off. I doubt it was even 25% full. We were there for exactly the same week last year and we got one of the last two or three available pitches. Talking to the Warden, he blamed the new booking system - and the weather must have played a part as well - 34 degrees last year and this year, whilst warm - it never seemed to stop raining!
However, looking at my records - two years ago, it was £18.54pn - last year £20 - but this year it had increased to £27 pn - for a no-facilities site. Even allowing for increased utility costs and wages, something doesn't quite stack up.
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Is the club's strategy to price out caravans / motorhomes and create more glamping sites?
I think Chatsworth is a bit of an anomaly. Many people want to visit the site for where it is and now that many are aware that it is closing they will pay for the experience, whatever that price is, before it shuts.
This year we have used only one club site and that was just a single overnight stop on the way to a CL further south. It cost us £22.40 for no facilities (Cadeside). whereas the CL at £25.00 per night had serviced pitches, unmetered electric included, free and very good wifi, and an excellent wet-room with shower, washbasin and toilet.
No CLs that we have been to this year have been more than £25.00 per night including electric. Two had metered electric but we still came within the daily included allowance.
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If you go back to before the new booking system was in place there was thread after thread on this forum complaining about lack of availability, either sites were fully booked or people couldn't book a complete week. So now people are complaining about too much availability! We will all remember the posts from people arriving on site, which had previously shown as fully booked, only to find lots of vacant pitches. Perhaps the new booking system has separated out the wheat from the chaff in terms preventing people booking speculatively, or perhaps discouraging people from cancelling at the last moment. There could be lots of reasons why there appears to be a lack of occupancy on some sites. Clearly the new booking system has concentrated the mind by requiring a deposit. Lots more people are now going back to taking holidays in Europe when in the last couple of years that has not been so easy due to the pandemic. Of course, there is also a cost of living crisis which will impact on some more than others. There are always cheaper alternatives out there. What puzzles me is that surely those cheaper alternatives have always been available and yet people are only now seeking them out?
David
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Perhaps folk are only now seeking out cheaper alternatives because they have never before experienced CAMC site fees at this level coupled with the economic stresses of day to day living?
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I stayed last year for a couple of nights at NYM on 16th and 17th July during the hot weather. It was around three quarters full and I overheard the warden say that during the school holdays (which were not yet in full swing), it was quieter on the NYM site as families with children tended to go elsewhere.
My view is that this year, sites are not as well occupied due to an amalgamation of a number of factors, the increase in prices on sites, interest rate rises and inflation generally, the very changeable weather, the new booking condtions and perhaps many people are now going back to oveseas holidays, a lot of them I suspect who have children, to all in type holidays.
I do agree that prices on CMHC sites have gone up a lot in comparison to price rises on other caravan sites, even allowing for the fact that electricity prices have risen.
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What puzzles me is that surely those cheaper alternatives have always been available and yet people are only now seeking them out?
I think the real killer here is the squeeze on disposable income and the price increases of sites. In the case of the Club, it appears to be a bigger increase than other sites. This has almost certainly forced members, who would not otherwise bother, to look at the alternatives available and the value for money, especially if they now feel disgruntled at the new booking terms. The latter will probably blow over when finacially things get better after all the terms are still better than other sites offer.
peedee
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Anecdotally many sites including CLs are less full than usual. At a recent CL the owner was saying fewer visitors and more last minute booking. Of course there are those sites which are full - maybe because of location, may be those not now going to Club sites are preferring CLs with lots of facilities.
With the Club I would be interested to know how pitch fees are arrived at. Do the pitch fees at a particular site have to pay for the running of the site? Is there any “smoothing” across sites? What proportion of any surplus generated by the Club is used to offset fees, what proportion is used for development, whether IT (!!!!) or site refurbishment? Did the Club anticipate lower occupancy this year? This could affect sites going forward. Lower occupancy, lower income, less surplus. Do you close sites? Do you raise fees? But without answers to some of these questions we are all whistling in the wind, IMO.
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With the Club I would be interested to know how pitch fees are arrived at.
Unfortunately I doubt we ever will. I also find some of the pricing rather bizarre.
For instance Cirencester versus Moreton in Marsh. M in M is £8.50 a night more expensive for two during August. Neither are showing as particularly full. If you want a grass pitch Cirencester is much superior in my opinion, standard HS pitches not so much but serviced no different. So why the £8.50 disparity?
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I think value for money is the main issue here.
I stayed at Berwick Seaview at Easter and it was half full maybe when it is usually full. I stayed at four club sites in Scotland and three of them were much quieter than usual.
I actually like the deposit idea because I could often not get a booking only to find out that the site is available near the time. BUT the value proposition is not there anymore. The prices are high. The wardens are cut back to the bone and under stress and not doing what members of old would expect, especially towards the end of a three week stint I suspect. The constant changing of promotions etc. mean there is no consistency to book knowing that you are getting the best value.
I am fortunate that i have had a good promotion and I am better off financially than in recent years but I will not book another club site or CL because the value has gone. I normally have a late August break and a week in October with the club but these will not happen and I will let my membership lapse next year
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It may be we are seeing the beginning of the end for UK touring caravanning. There are vacancies at almost every sort of site - CL and independent as well as Club. It’s a dwindling hobby. Slowly dying I think. I used to know seven friends and neighbours who had caravans but now I know none. And I know just one who has a DIY van conversion.
Financially speaking I am afraid there are Haves and Have Nots these days. The second group can’t afford caravanning in any shape or form. The first group is spending their money very freely, but in other ways - second homes, rented cottages, cruises, city breaks, flights and foreign travel.Will there be many hauling caravans around in ten years time? Very few I think. Reducing the price of a pitch won’t bring them back.
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We are just back from a nice site just outside Aberdeen, the van was on site for 9 nights, we had the first and last nights and our daughter and family the other 7.
For 2 adults, a 5 year old and a 2 year old they paid £38.50 per night for a serviced pitch. The facilities were excellent and looked very new, there was a great play area for the children, and a small pond with ducks and ducklings, good Wifi included, and no charge for awnings or pets. Bus stop nearby, shops about a mile away.
The site was pretty much full at the weekends, and the majority of pitches occupied during the week. More caravans than MHs, and several foreign tourists.
Nearest Club sites are Stonehaven, where a serviced pitch would have been just over £50 per night, and Banchory, which has no serviced pitches, no play area, and tired facilities, where a pitch would have been just over £40.
Club prices are certainly at the higher end in the area!
We have used both Stonehaven and Banchory in the past, and enjoyed them, but would not do so again as we do not feel they offer us VFM any more. No Club sites used in the last 2 years, we use CLs and a few CCC sites and commercials.
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I don't think low occupation is confined to club sites and I suspect eurortraveller has it spot on. We were down at our static van in Cornwall last week. Walking Ralph across Penhale Dunes I could see huge vacant areas over at Haven's Perran Sands site where they're normally packed in like sardines at this time of year. Just up the road the popular Perran Springs site had barely a dozen pitches taken. And a couple of weeks ago, admittedly before the schools had broken up, over at Holywell Bay, there were loads of empty pitches both at the Parkdean site and at Trevornick, again normally packed at this time of year. Site costs have certainly risen but I suspect it's just as much to do with general cost of living problems and although fuel costs have come down a lot in the last month or so, they were still astronomically high when families would normally have been looking to book.
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Possibly, although the sites down in Cornwall which have gone over to static vans and lodges are selling them like hot cakes - and they're not cheap, prices have more than doubled since we bought ours back in 2010. £80000 for a fairly basic 2 bedroom static or £150000 or more for a lodge. And there's ground rent and running costs on top of that!
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Ground rent is around £6k p/a on some sites now for a modest sized static with lodges commanding even more so it’s not a cheap alternative to touring.
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I was looking at the lodges on the old camp site we used to use at Bodinnick last night. They start at around £150k. There are some residential ones as well…..£250k. As Tinny says, you have something like £6k ground rent per annum as well. Lovely location mind……..
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There was thread about a month ago from Dave someone (sorry can't remember exactly) about how and why Garlieston was so empty? Well arrived today and I can only spot one empty HS with awning and one grass. Maybe two non awning pitches are empty but there's building and grass work around them so they may closed. No need to worry here.
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Personally I like it when a site is only at about 50% occupancy, it tends to give a bit more spacing between you and your neighbour and the toilet blocks a bit less crowded etc......
If the "Club" becomes concerned about occupancy levels I am sure they will find a way to reduce prices and perhaps create a few "off peak" periods, the last Sunday night of a school holiday would be a good starting point, but I'm sure there are many others.... Having said that, the number of large, new twin axle caravans pulled by new SUV/Pick ups I've seen this year I don't think site prices are out of reach of many members.
Most of all I would like a relaxation of the three week rule. Perhaps the Club could increase the membership fee to £120 a year, £10 a month is peanuts for your favourite hobby, less than most people spend on sky TV or their phone and use the extra revenue to fund any difference to revenue between the current booking system and the previous system, if indeed there is any....?
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We have always been a two-tier society, but there is more emphasis on this today. When I had a young family I could just about afford a fairly ratty old caravan, and just about afford to go on club sites in summer.
There are only two of us these days and although we can afford a decent caravan, and the extortionate site fees, we chose to use cheaper CL's as we just can't see the justification for the cost increase to its current level.
The fact that some sites are full, shows that some of the sites can justify charging these prices but for the long term I agree with the OP that the club has got something wrong. Perhaps when more sites are empty, and new people aren't engaging with caravan & motorhomes they will reduce prices to compete, but by then it may be too late.
Or perhaps its just part of the plan....
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If this is a member’s club there should be some transparency and the impact of increased prices should become apparent or will this be hidden amongst the very real cost of living crisis? I am intrigued by the number of late availability pitches during peak season
I am not using Club sites where I can avoid it and that has shifted from actively choosing Club sites. Yes it is pricing but also a poor online booking experience with no possibility of amends and no service at weekends. Site offices don’t answer the phone, wi-fi is poor or non-existent on many sites and there is rarely information about 4G coverage. Toilet blocks are looking tired on many sites and of course there a complete lack of other additional amenities. On a cost benefit analysis it’s not stacking up any more.
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A factor that strikes me is that the old member brigade amongst us are naturally diminishing in number. The newer members hold different views and may possibly not hold that same allegiance to a club ethos as we oldies do. Many newbies may well be more tempted to shop elsewhere and around for a whole variety of reasons. A bit like many today with phone, insurance and energy contracts where in the past customers would ‘stick’ with their providers .
We can discuss reasons why presently the occupancy appears low to the cows come home but the real question is what can be done to reverse it. Clearly the cost of living and disposable income is having a profound effect. Some however may even suggest that the damage has been done and to pull it back will take time and radical thought and action.1 -
Has anyone else noticed that even as we’re about to enter August, tour operators are still advertising overseas holiday packages on TV?
It used to be unheard of at this time of year to see holidays advertised. It should tell us something about people’s priorities for spending.
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Gatwick airport reports that on a typical day 60,000 people fly out. That’s mostly holiday traffic . Add in all the other airports and ferries and the tunnel and the figure will be approaching 200,000 people per day going overseas. UK caravan site prices are nothing to do with it. The new world of holidays is with us.
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