Smart Metering Trial
Comments
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I'm on a proper campsite with a bollard on my pitch that has water waste and an EHU socket.
the showers and toilets are of the highest standard.
I just chose the grass pitch with no EHU option...
I put my grey waste down the bollard trap and my black waste into the CCEP just like you (hopefully) do...
nothing fancy, just an option from the menu of pitch types....and much cheaper but with everything else other pitch types have.
we also do non-EHU THS temp sites, but again, there is a grey waste and black waste provision.
we also use Aires but these also have the above provisions.
we also use 'other stopping places' and we can dump our waste when we next arrive at a 'proper' stopping place with services.
Moderator comment: Post slightly edited.
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Mind you, this thread is really about CAMC’s trial of smart metering of electricity on just 2 club sites rather than off site 'wild camping', although anyone can be forgiven for not realising that.😁
Moderator comment: Post slightly edited.
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Hi everyone, there's been some interesting posts made here and very informative but just a polite reminder to keep the discussion relating to the smart metering trial and feedback on this. Please feel free to start a new topic on touring off grid as I am sure many will find this really interesting and helpful.
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Tried it ... Not for me thanks !
Stayed for 3 nights at Wyatts Covert and took part in the smart metering trial.
The site fee saving was £2.50 pn ie £7.50 for the stay.
I'd accessed the meter-macs website in advance and registered for an account. Uploaded a £10 credit at set-up ( which was simply a guess ).
Had to access the account online on arrival to turn the electricity 'on' at the pitch. It is not an 'app' but a website so you need to have the link handy.
Had the fridge on electric, boiled the kettle a couple of times a day and used the hotplate on the cooker once for 10 mins. I did not use the microwave, the hot water heater or any heating. My total was £5.50 for the 3 days so a saving of £2 in total. I then had to access the website again to turn the meter 'off' on leaving. I then had to access the website again and request a refund from the account of the £4.50 I didn't need.
All in all I found it a complete faff and of absolutely no benefit to me at all. I would have ordinarily used the onboard boiler to keep a supply of hot water to the taps but didn't really need it in the Summer .. I've no doubt that would have pushed up the usage to over £2.50, and I dread to think what it would be if I'd put on the Alde heating.
I'm glad I tried it but won't be doing so again if I have the option.... I will be happier to pay the standard price, plug in and enjoy my stay without the online faff and anxiety of having a meter running continuously in the background !
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Really interesting. Do you think your response would have been different if the system had been simpler? Eg meter readings at start and end of stay? I have always thought the system sounded complex. I am sure other large sites have different ways of doing it. I do hope the second site the club is trialling will have a different method.
Your usage etc seems to indicate what many of us felt, that the drop in pitch price was not sufficient to compensate for removing the electricity element.
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Nice to have a real world report. Thanks.
you mention the anxiety of having a meter running in the background...that meter still runs and needs to be allocated somewhere, whether the club add the average pitch 'guesstimate' to each members bill or you get it individually...
others have said many times that paying for what you use sharpens the focus, which is what's happened with you....one or two have suggested that, in their case, they will 'carry on doing what they've always done' etc...and I'm sure they will and that they will enjoy their stay and enjoy paying their bill.
It's everyone's prerogative to use what they deem they need, but at least now, light users will benefit from a light(er) bill.
I also agree with the faff of the on/off via a website, other sites where we have been metered operate in (as far as I'm concerned) a more customer friendly manner, where a bill is settled in the office the evening prior to leaving.... obviously, different office hours at CAMC sites precludes this...
btw, can the office access a members account should they run into difficulty or it it 'hands off' and the customer has to sort things out with the web provider?
perhaps one of the things to come out the trial might be the production of a simple app which is quickly found on one's phone...linking to web pages is a bit 'old hat' these days but the club generally isn't 'new hat'🤷🏻♂️
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Thanks for reporting back, very interesting. Unfortunately Wyatts Covert gets very few reviews so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised with the lack of feedback until now. I hope you might also add a review?
The system, as you describe it seems quite straight forward to me, albeit an additional task to do on this site. We don't know for sure whether it would be the same system if it were rolled out network wide? Having said that I am not sure what system would be easier, especially if it needs to be accessible 24/7. As to pitch savings, many have questioned the generosity of the reduction if you are using metering, although fair to say the reduction is much more at the times of years with probable maximum power usage. I suppose its possible that when the Club have a more accurate picture of the savings that metering provides could adjust prices to reflect bigger savings, if indeed they do exist.
David
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Better still, not bother to use that site at all and find a nearby alternative at a reasonable price.
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Or some means of connecting to the internet but could this not be done before you arrive at the site? You are contributing to a discussion so I assume you have means to get online? So if you were there just for the weekend you could add money to the account before you arrive (it would have to be sufficient) and claim any refund when you get home? I thought they said that site staff would also be able to help?
David
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As I understand it you need a means of switching the bollard on and off whilst on site. That does not mean you need to have a smartphone but you would need a pad or a lap top you could connect to the site Wifi, even if you had charged up the account at home.
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That would mean deciding before you arrived, or a trip to the office and payment after arrival. Fast tracking with possibly an ANPR system in the future, are all focused on minimising office contact, freeing up managers for other tasks. The only mistake they are making in my opinion, is not using an App, a website is rather clumsy. I could put the electric App in the same little section as the levelling one. Drive onto pitch, stick phone on glass cooker top to check level, plug in EHU select pitch number from App and turn on. Then lunch.😀
A thought:-
An App based system seems the obvious way to go, perhaps the web based system is just because it’s a trial and an App will be developed if they decide to go ahead with this method of connection.0 -
By virtue of the fact it is called ‘Trial’ means it needs to be time consuming & even difficult in an attempt to identify potential & accurately finger any problems. If it ‘puts anyone off’ then they are the ones that the Trial is not aimed at. It is not ‘designed to fail’, no one/company runs a trial with its constituent depth designed to fail, it is actually designed to ensure its success or to find proof of its issues & can they be engineered out. CAMC are thinking big👍🏻
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The thread is about Smart metering on club sites though. Payment is upfront. I’ve not come across anything else in the UK. Currently you can opt to go into the office and could decide then. However, we opt for payment the night before and it would require a later transaction if we then decided on EHU. If ANPR is rolled out, visiting the office and payment on arrival may become a thing of the past.
A payment as you suggest also wouldn’t do anything about moderating consumption by some of those who paid the set fee and a separate charge would still be required for an EV.
If we are going to have metering I quite like this smart option, where I can plug in if I want, might just be for a day of our stay if the solar panels aren’t fully doing there job due to trees. Plus I can check on what we are using and the cost with a glance at the phone.
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Steve, for someone who is less confident with a smartphone (or perhaps doesn't have/want one) it doesn't matter whether the system is App or Webpage based, it still needs online access and a device to connect...
the CCP system you and others have used is such an easy system, you want entry you tap your card....payment by preloaded CCP card or even by credit card, I'm sure I paid for my first visit by CC as I didn't have a CCP card at that point.
The club wants to 'reduce contact' and fast tracking etc with ANPR would be good, but one of the big 'benefits' of hand off services (like CCP Aires or supermarket self service tills) is the supposed reduction in supplier costs that get passed back to the customer...
the club wants wardens to be cleaning toilets or cutting grass rather than checking folk in or managing their hook up requirements.
if this hands off drive resulted in a few quid off pitches then this might seem worthwhile but if at the end of the day this 'service' is going to cost customers more (infrastructure, third party contracts etc) then what's the point?
less would certainly be more in this case?🤷🏻♂️👎
I went 'non EHU' at a uk site a couple of weeks ago....I just booked non EHU and paid the reduced price. The bollard had a hook up point but I didn't use it and no one came round to check I wasn't cheating😉
no fancy app or loading a card or turning the supply on electronically.....
each bollard had a 'meter' built in and no doubt the office can easily keep track of any usage.
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"Sounds like you HAVE to have a smart phone"
or something that connects to the interweb, Oh! and a degree in computer technology to work out how to put it all together just to get some electricity for a few days of relaxation.
much simpler systems around
e.g. purchase plastic card at check in, e.g. £5 plug into EHU on pitch, meter shows you how much you have used, when you leave you can take card with you if there is credit remaining and you are going to return, or you can be very neighbourly and leave for next user.
check in select EHU pitch when you arrive on pitch plug in, meter in office clicks into life, when you leave meter stops when you unplug, when you check out simple process to pull up pitch number and pay what is owning, receptionist gives you print out of usage.
there are many others and of course no matter which system is in use there are going to be pitfalls which could mean you are withouth lecce until the office opens etc, but can you imagine the chaos on a site say Friday 1700 hrs lots of arrivals and the internet is down
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Rufs, I would assume the site office has a hotline to the service supplier...surely the club wouldn't set up something so hands off that the poor old end user has to get involved with a 'helpline'?👎👎👎
agreed, we've all used similar simple services to the one you describe but the club's staffing regime (and it's seeming determination to get staff 'doing other things') simply doesn't allow the sort of 08:00 till 22:00 office service that we are used to and is a requirement of the full customer facing world you mention.
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YT For someone less confident with smartphones, using the CCP computer at the entry, to either pay or put money on your card is not going to be any easier.
Back with the CAMC
As to not having / or want one, times are changing and the vast majority of the population now own a smart phone. Plus if you don’t a pad or laptop can also be used on the site WiFi. Also if the trial showed the need a terminal could be provide in the information room
It’s a bit like BT they sent me an email yesterday. Your phone line will be going internet based. Oh by the way if your burglar alarm uses the phone that probably won’t work and if you have a power cut use your mobile in an emergency if you can get a signal. Time can’t stand still we just have to adapt.3 -
'For someone less confident with smartphones, using the CCP computer at the entry, to either pay or put money on your card is not going to be any easier.'
Well I managed to use the CCP system and got into the site and my OH reckons I can't even use a normal uk car park payment station🙂of course things are changing and technology moves on, we could all name situations where a change has caused a problem....alarms (burglar and personal) are potentially subject to problems when the national phone system does completely digital....
however, the club had decided on system where every user has to have their own interface to it...the papers are full of articles about folk not being able to work smart phone based parking meter apps in towns and as a result are becoming more isolated. These folk may not be comfortable even with a 'terminal in the information room'...
still, this will all be the subject of the next 'you asked....we did' article in the club mag where we will all be told what a success the new system is....just like the last system implementation perhaps?
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“however, the club had decided on system….”
No, they are trialling it. The outcome of the trial will be a basis for decisions.
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however, the club had decided on system where every user has to have their own interface to it...the papers are full of articles about folk not being able to work smart phone based parking meter apps in towns and as a result are becoming more isolated. These folk may not be comfortable even with a 'terminal in the information room'...
That’s been going on throughout history. There were folk who thought the telephone an abomination and why do we need these new fangled horseless carriages when we have a perfectly good horse. Time and progress can’t stand still. All we can do is try and help those who find the change difficult through it.
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...but how many system types are they trialling? One, five...over what period?
the only one in the frame at the moment is the one in play currently...should this prove not to be the one they go for then it will be a fair while before they get something else planned and under way.
the club have obviously worked with 'interested parties' and suppliers up front to come up with something they feel could be offered to members, provided any bumps get ironed out...something not too far away from what the club would like.
they certainly haven't put together several options to let customers try and give their feedback on which they feel works best.
if the trial 'goes well' this is what we will will get, perhaps with a tweak or two, if not then it'll be back to square one until they come up with something else.
as members don't know what the 'success criteria' are the club will be able to deem it worthy or otherwise without members placing their objective views against those..
there might be a clinic or similar after the 'trial' but I doubt that will encompass many...
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I agree that an App would be much easier but I suspect that will only come about when/if the Club decide to continue with metering across the network? Is the second site in the trial also going to use the same system as the first, or will it be a different supplier?
David
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Of course you're right, things move on...but looking at the club's demographic it's likely a fairly high proportion might not have the confidence we take for granted.
if they 'need help' as part of the arrival/pitching process it's unlikely to be offered by the staff who will have been 'freed up to perform other tasks' and surely it can't be a 'helpline'?
rolling out a new system (or trial while that system is in that state) requires a real commitment to support for those new users....been there, done that many times.
whilst the trial is localised to a couple of (low volume?) sites, staff may have the time to get folk up and running but a full scale roll out is a different matter and dumping something new into members laps without sufficient real hands on support is not the same thing.
I hope the trial goes well, I hope any roll out goes well, but things don't happen smoothly on their own without much forethought and support.
I won't be using the new system myself but am interested in the technology and the process but having used simpler systems in many places I wonder if there is a large hammer and a small nut in play?
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