Smart Metering Trial
Comments
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Might as well pay for EHU instead 🤷🏻♂️
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some great ideas DD, if i was 25 years younger and planning to continue caravanning I must just take up some of your ideas, but i am thinking of scaling back not up. Dont think metering is going to be a big issue for me during the next couple of years, my guess is if the cliub do decide, or should i say when, the club role out metering they will probably concentrate on the honeypot sites as a priority as that is where the money will be.
Not sure what happens electrically in my caravan, i breathed a sigh of relief when it was decreed all electrical goods should be supplied with a 3 pin plug, but as of now if i plug into the EHU the 240v sockets are immediatly live so fridge/water heater works etc, the on off switch on the control panel does not control 240v sockets, i guess i could just switch the 240v items off, just something else to add to the tick sheet
came back from Spain in January and not planning any more this year but have a couple of UK trips planned, sites with no metering, but will def look at ways of becoming more self sufficient even if i have to have my own portable solar farm on pitch
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We can easily manage a week with our solar panel and calor gas, we've never bothered to get the cheaper gas. A short three day break would not be a problem. There are lots of non ehu back ups for charging things. There are long threads on CT about it.
However we've also managed happily on metered pitches although it certainly needs some care if you want to avoid a large bill.
The meter trial is going to effect a minimum number of site users, both sites are very small and have facilities. It will be interesting to hear the outcome.
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Hi everyone, Just a polite reminder to keep the discussion on topic as a few posts have drifted a little. Many thanks.
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Just read about the smart meter trail in the latest magazine, I personally dont think this is the way to be heading , having read the average pricing details and working things out the Club is not reducing anyones site fees , these will only go up even if you are a light user .
This is just another way of making money out of what use to be an enjoyable holiday, I see this as the Club know bookings will be down as covid is now over and more people go back abroad and with the electric car system moving closer , how many tow cars will be around then , the whole caravan industry could be on its knees in the near future.
This is the first I have heard of this smart meter , why dont the Club let all members vote and not just say it's what was asked for , I dont believe this .
This move has made me think of stopping my membership and selling the van
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Don't forget this is only a trial on two campsites. At this stage it does not mean it will be rolled out across the network. I am sure the Club will be consulting those that have taken part in the trial before deciding to roll things out to all campsites if indeed they do. It seems as if this has come as a surprise to you? However the possibility of metering electricity has been in the public domain for a few years. Not only on this forum but also mentioned at several AGM's. There is a view, whether you agree with it or not, that some members would like the choice of connecting to the electric supply on sites which is only available at a small number of sites. If you want a hardstanding pitch almost impossible. So some see metering as offering more choice. The trial will also determine whether the pitch price reduction is correct to compensate for using metering.
David
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David, what needs to be 'fair' is the previous level of charge made (built into the pitch fee) set against the proposed basic pitch reduction for those who will end up on a metered pitch.
as we are now, many (non club) campsites around the uk have been offering a non EHU option....some charge a basic price and then add the EHU cost...I have seen this charge as much as £7+ a night...I wonder what level the club has been factoring in to to its overall pitch fees for the past umpteen years? Perhaps something close to this?
now, when we get to metered pitches, the base price looks likely to be reduced by.....wait for it.....a pound or two!
a large fridge freezer will use about 4kw a day and at 50p a unit that's the £2 gone before anyone looks to use a water heater or hairdryer or outside electric grill etc, etc...
Not only that, we've already had an increase of pitch prices to 'cover the rise in electric prices'...so when we go metered, and the prices are reduced by a paltry amount, we'll be back where we were a year ago price wise but the customers won't get any electric!
of course, the club has also slipped in its annual increases...so hard to tell where these are as a single site can have so many prices in a year for the same pitch...no one now has a clue about increases....the prices just slide steadily upwards and, as we are constantly told, you just pay or go elsewhere.
I must be so naive, I thought the pitch prices might come down by a fiver or so, allowing someone to genuinely consider being off grid at a club site, but at a reduction of a pound or two, this hasn't made any tangible difference and certainly wouldn't temp me even though I, like DD mentions above, am perfectly well equipped to run for any length of stay without EHU.
...but reducing a CAMC site from (say) £45 to £43 without electric, when the pitch increased recently from (say) £43 to £45 'to cover increasing power costs' has to be taking the biscuit.....and Colin....the good biscuits!
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I agree YT. We might need a trial(s) to test out the logistics of the various methods of charging for metered electric. However, we certainly don’t need it to establish wether the pitch reduction is correct, as DK suggests. It is most definitely is no where near adequate.
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Seems a good idea ,those that are wasteful with energy, not environmentally bothered about climate change, and global warming ,and future generations. pay for that attitude
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Agreed, but the starting point for those paying additionally for electric must be set at a reasonable level...the club seems to want its cake and eat it...🍰
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How does 42p per kwh compare to suppliers
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The price seem comparable to electricity supplies by energy suppliers ,as the price charges per KWH incudes standing charge, and 5% VAT
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I wasn't referring to the unit price for the leccy... (I wouldn't be paying for any😉) I meant the pitch price prior to adding one's electric bill....
imho, this hasn't been reduced sufficiently to make going off grid at a club site viable.
I won't pay the usual club prices with electric (on principal, the VFM equation doesn't balance by a long way) but, if the non electric price were set reasonably (IMV) at say £5 lower than the full price, I'd consider trying a metered site, but not if the reduction is only going to be a pound or two.
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I think this might have been mentioned before. It's a trial.
JK
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CLs which are now using metering have reduced pitch prices by more than the Club are doing.
However, the ones we have looked at are making a flat rate reduction, not one depending on the time of year.
The one we will use in a few weeks time has reduced the pitch fee from £20 to £15 for a serviced hard standing ( no other facilities). Unit price is to be about 30p.
Others are including say 6 or 10kWh in the pitch fee.
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Since i i put my own view on here regarding the smart meters on sites and read the discussion replys , to me , i agree that the club want there cake and eat it , all the price increases over the years for what ever reasons and we members just pay it or find else where to go .
To me personally (and i know we have to get the feed back from the trial ) i think the pitch reduction and the unit cost , does not add up and i think it will mean another price increase come the end of a stay , more so come the school holidays , when some have 2 or 3 teenagers with them , and what about disabled peolple who may , in some cases , need to have an item plugged into the supply to assist them .
I am not totally against pitch metering , but another concern for me is not everyone has access to the internet , for what ever reason , so how would they go about setting an online account up , would it not be better to have a card system and put money on it when you get to the site and top it up through your stay , anything left on the card at the end of your stay could be used to start you going when you book another site .
As a final thought , to me anyway , i just see this as a money making idea , as covid as ended , a lot more peole are going back abroad , hence the amount of used caravans avalible at the moment and that bookings have dropped off .
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Trouble is Steve everyone is judging the pitch price reduction on the minimum reduction which is what £1 or £2 a night? But what about the greater reduction later in the year which can be as much as £6? Now YT would have us believe that the electricity usage is far greater especially those that have a stonking great fridge/freezer. I just wonder how many have that size of appliance in their caravan/motorhome, certainly not everyone. Just an example I have just had my motorhome linked up to the mains at home prior to going away. OK I only have an under the counter fridge but my electricity usage has come to about £1 each day over the two days, probably a bit less, whilst it was connected. OK it would have been a bit more had I used the water heater but I suspect those that use the site facilities might not bother the heat water? So where does that leave us, it seems that at this time of year perhaps £1 to £2 might be an accurate reflection on daily electricity usage?
David
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We do have the large fridge freezer, as do many others, although don’t now use any other electric appliances such as a kettle, toaster and coffee maker. However, as caravaners we did, as I suspect do many others. You only have to see some of the posts on CT about how little gas some get through because they use electric hot plates and mini ovens. So even without the water heater, which I doubt many don’t use at all, I think £1 / £2 is pushing it at any time of the year as any sort of average usage. As current pitch prices are based on that usage, surely we should be seeing a more significant reduction, Reductions later in the year may be more realistic, however a significant number of members take their holidays in July and August when prices are greatest and reductions least.
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I'm just looking at prices for a 'commercial' we use...now 'electricity' isn't sold by metering but by the 'service' of having hookup...and it varies by the type of pitch you choose....
4 nights grass pitch...the saving/cost (depending how you look at it) is almost £40, a tenner a night...
4 nights HS super pitch...difference is almost £67, £17 a night.
4 nights Premier pitch...difference £92!....£23 a night!
to illustrate further....the middle option Hs Super pitch with leccy costs roughly £45 a night, comparable with a club pitch, yet the reduction per night for not hooking up is £17!...brings pitch down to £28. In this sunny weather surely a no brainier for anyone with a solar panel?
They must be using a different 'algorithm' to CC🤷🏻♂️
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There are a lot of caravans and MHs that do have the taller fridge/freezers. Some are tall and narrow, others like ours are shorter and wider. I would not call ours "stonking", it is in fact of a lesser volume than many newer vans have, yet it uses around 4kWh per 24 hours, which at that stated CAMC price of 42p would be £1.68.
The site we are on at present is several miles away from supermarkets, and we do not want to spend too much time shopping, so we have come fairly well stocked, with 5 mouths to feed supplies soon disappear! A small fridge with tiny ice box would be no use at all here.
Looking at new vans recently, with our daughter, we discounted anything that did not have a decent sized FF.
And how many, even on a full facilities site do not usually heat any water at all? Very few I would think. Possibly more MHers than caravanners will normally take dishes away to wash, but with metered electricity I can see the queues at the dish wash getting very long! But what a faff having to take dishes away to wash, reminds me of metered sites in Germany where the charge was 75 cents per kWh. We heated water by gas.
And I bet most people will have an electric kettle, probably a toaster too, and would normally use the electric ring on their hob if provided.
Then TV, charger, lights, microwave.........
The allowances CAMC are giving, at any time of year, are just not good enough, especially when you take their high site fees into account.
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KJ. This is the problem, those of us who genuinely don't use much ehu and are equipped to run without it are faced with site fees that support large vans with large amounts of equipment. We've never needed a fridge freezer or any systems that draw on too much power. When we first started vanning we used gas to supplement the ehu which wasted our gas so now we do what others do, small electric toaster, electric kettle etc but because we're not living in the van as we would at home we're happy to stock the fridge up a bit but then go shopping for small amounts of food or meals out etc. It's possible to use solar powered items, power banks etc to supplement ehu. When we're off ehu we can manage very well without the microwave it becomes a useful cupboard.
Shock horror we've even washed up in the same water all day...I remember relatives who lived on an island with a poor water supply having to do that in their guesthouse! 
I realise some are going to find metering to be quite a trial and quite expensive unless they learn to adapt.
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I can only agree brue, despite having a large twin axle van! Metering will be much fairer.
We are used to metering from when we went abroad, and when faced with high electricity prices we would just change to using gas where possible, not a problem for us as we have a Gaslow system.
We do not have a solar panel, have recently considered it but decided against as we may not be keeping the van for more than another year or two.
The site fees need to be reduced more so that the light users can benefit properly and not still be subsidising power hungry units......or filling the Club coffers!
Will not affect us as we have stopped using Club sites......too expensive.......but remain members to use CLs, 3 on this trip along with 3 CCC sites and 2 commercials.
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I also agree with Brue, we are very light users of others' electric when on site. In fact, we booked the site I alluded to above only yesterday and we've been here since 11 am (shock horror, the receptionist said the site was quiet and we could come at any time....) and chose the grass pitch no EHU option...
with our members discount we only paid £50 for four nights.....
I topped up with lpg on the way here and am running the fridge on it...the TVs are 12v as are our charging USBs for phone, iPad etc. water pump is also 12v so we don't have any mains requirements, not even to turn on the mains leisure battery charger....also my BBQ runs on gas as does our hob and oven if required...
KJ mentions he doesn't have a solar panel but IMV it (these in our case) underpin being able to remain on site without EHU. Yes, those who drive off site can charge their leisure batteries as they do but many units stay on site (we choose to cycle instead).
our three x 100w panels mean the leisure batteries are rarely less than full, even when charging the ebike batteries...
for anyone considering spending the late spring to late summer off grid I'd say 200+ watts of solar will make this so easy...
using non EHU CL sites might yield a swift return on the investment, however just going non EHU on a club site will probably never achieve this in most lifetimes...👎
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David, I agree...there's no typical usage...however the Club (and other providers) will be aware of rising costs across the site to heat water for showers and dishwashing, and to keep shower blocks warm and well lit. Some of this was mentioned when CAMC put up prices across the board a while back...
So it looks like we, the punters, will get caught either by base price rises (to cover those who use site facs) or by using the electric on your pitch by individual metering...
it's a hard ball situation now where costs, however allocated or paid, are rising in this hobby.
as an aside, we have this site to ourselves at the moment, it's popular with families but the kids are all at school but will fill at the weekend (hence our choice of date and the great location)
...we have heated shower blocks (with heated floors) at our disposal and, despite us having chosen a non EHU option, every pitch, grass or HS, has a bollard for water, drainage and EHU and we are 'trusted' not to hook up....although the electric system has a meter which may well link back to the office as with other sites we've used....
so our £12.50 a night gives us a 'non EHU, fully serviced pitch with top notch showers'...a bit different but very civilised...🙂
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If we are to pay for electricity by the units used, there will need to be change of infrastructure so that the site manager can read the meter at the end of the visit or gather the data remotely. This will incur further costs to the members in paying for new infrastructure or time taken to gather data. So you pay for the electricity plus the cost to gather the data for the bill.
I am afraid if we are not careful, we will succumb to the CAMC PR wagon; I'm sure you know the one I mean!
The key message that the CAMC want more revenue is not very palatable to the membership, so to deflect attention from the key message, they set one member against another by stoking the debate of how much electricity we should use as an individual. In another absurd turn of logic, perhaps we should consider every site overhead cost...
If the site is say 10 acres, the club could break down all costs to the square metre of area. Thus larger caravans would need to pay more than small caravans. Those with awnings would pay more. Perhaps we should have a smart card that monitors us every time we use the facilities block, again, the more we use it, the more we pay! Should those with dogs pay extra per dog? To further the 'greenwashing' policy, should we be charged on a sliding scale for the size and type of unit we arrive on site with? Diesel would obviously pay more!
The examples I have provided are not ones that I would endorse, however, I hope it illustrates how you can deflect the main issue away from the club and get the membership to debate the topic and lose sight of the message. The tactic of divide and conquer is as old as the hills! Whilst we debate the detail, we let the club off the hook.
The unfortunate truth is that you can slice the cake and individual cost any way you like to end up with a 'justified' cost. I would have a lot more respect if the CAMC was more honest in its approach. If they need more money be up front and honest. It is supposed to be a club for its members, not a business first and foremost.
Personally, I would rather not have to pay for the PR, re-branding and marketing costs etc, I would rather have lower pitch fees! Thankfully, we all have a choice to remain members or explore other options.
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