Towing a T/A with an EV - real world
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How about the prospect of hydrogen fuel cells. Some London buses are using them.
Hydrogen powered cars are another consideration if you have unresolved issues with EVs.
https://www.toyota.co.uk/hydrogen
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Oneputt, it depends on the question. I use google to search for lots of info. In this specific case for the Institute for Energy research my reaction to articles that lead with statements like "In Australia, only two percent of the country’s 3,300 metric tons of lithium-ion waste is recycled. Unwanted MP3 players and laptops often end up in landfills, where metals from the electrodes and ionic fluids from the electrolyte can leak into the environment." is to ask - who is making this statement?
So - click around the site to see what else they are saying - like the article "The Climate Fund Act: Harmful to Workers and Consumers" which states that "In the immediate wake of the PPCFA, oil and gas shareholders would see a 42-percent drop in earnings."
And that leads me to believe the site is lobbying on behalf of the fossil industry - not promoting new green energy solutions. So I google the organisation to see who funds them. And that information tells me who is paying for the material (Exxon is a large contributor in this case).
I listen to a lot of material from Fully Charged. They bring in a lot of industry experts from a whole range of areas, but their fields are generally either academic with engineering application, or entrepreneurial, breaking new ground. And then I look to see who they are sponsored by too.
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I noticed the winning EV towcar in the club's "tow car" of the year. Although not normally interested much in these things myself it was one OH had picked out as a good possible. I thought the OP's youtube demo was expecting a bit too much from the outfit chosen. I suppose you can produce failures and down beat examples of just about everything but for anyone who wants to stay positive about advanced engineering and all those involved with research into lessening the worst excesses of the ICE age there is hope on the horizon.
Apologies Oneputt, I know this goes against your comments and link but balance is always needed when considering why new technology overtakes the old.
PS I won't be commenting further.
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Everyone is entitled to an opinion & a choice re EV or not. I for one love the idea of a world of EV’s yet I have no intention of investing in one until I need to or want to. I’m not there yet for sure but it don’t stop me from reading everything I can find re EV🤷🏻♂️
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Thanks Oneputt. In my mind, both articles seem much more balanced, and are from non-fossil funded sources as far as I can tell. They highlight the same issue as the article referenced near the start of this thread, that of rapid expansion without an appropriate framework of legislation or protection for workers and individuals.
EVs (and the associated battery manufatcure and resource consumption) are not the only answer to fossil fuel consumption, but they are a part of the answer. The impact of oil extraction and usage is still the unmentioned elephant in the room...
I certainly don't have all the answers, but IMHO continuing to burn stuff is not an option any more.
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Yes, the very fact that unelected legislators are pushing for EV’s as the sole form of motive power guarantees it will end in tears. However the fight back against Nut zero writing is on the wall with the Merseyside village which have refused to accept enforced installation of ASHP and Hydrogen CH systems. And, Germany and other countries are pushing to allow synthetic fuelled ICE to continue after 2035…… there will be voter revolt. Don’t even start me on scientific ‘consensus’…… since when is consensus fact?
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This is about the nearest post I’ve seen of ‘common sense’ for a while. With all the hysteria from entrenched sides this is a ‘whoa slow down’ perspective FC👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻. Where are the Fossil fuel shaped top up stations, the ones a truck, a Cvan tugger & Car can just drive into like the linear Fossil fuel stations(ease of use)🤷🏻♂️. The likes of Shell, BP, Exxon etc are making multiple £$Billions with minimal forward planning or even acceptance of an EV world. They’re not convinced how can the rest of us be convinced. Our(& many) Govt’s are stood at the back kicking stones around whistling whilst confusion reigns🙁
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"I listen to a lot of material from Fully Charged. They bring in a lot of industry experts from a whole range of areas, but their fields are generally either academic with engineering application, or entrepreneurial, breaking new ground. And then I look to see who they are sponsored by too."
Hi CT, It was the "entrepreneurial" that caught my attention. last October I visited a number of solar parks around the UK and had some interesting conversations with the technicians who operate these sites.
These were wide ranging but, in a nutshell, the general consensus was that the biggest driver for investment in solar was as a money making venture and now that the profit potential was affected the investment might suffer.
I was also made aware of the fact that, whilst the output from a site could be increased, due to advances on panel design/technology, they were restricted to their agreed output so could not benefit from these improvements in design/technology.
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My concern is the loss of food producing land for solar farms when there are innumerable large industrial roofs that could accommodate solar without jeopardising our food supply.
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I visited 9 sites, none would be used for arable production and 7 were stocked with sheep-the company even employ shepherds to manage the flocks.
The issue re site output was discussed after I asked why a site, which was having replacement panels installed, seemed to be short of panels in the completed parts compared to the existing parts.
I was told that, not only are they not allowed to exceed their agreed National Grid input, but that there are penalties if they do.
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CY - the lack of a requirement for all new industrial "sheds" to include solar is, IMHO, criminal. The additional build cost would be offset by the long term solar gain, and as you say the reduction on impact on land would be marked. Retrofitting to existing buildings is more expensive - but again worth the effort in the long term.
AandJ - I use the term "entrepreneurial" in the sense of technology pioneer, rather that profit led, but it is true that the two go hand in hand. As to investment in solar (or wind farms) for profit, it is inevitable in a privatised generation market. And I would MUCH rather have investors making money out of green technology and generation than out of gas or coal (or wood chip) generation. Let's face it, none of the UK generation is run at cost or at a loss or out of a sense of altruism. It is all privately owned and run for profit.
Indeed - I have personally invested in rooftop solar (back in 2012) to reduce my carbon and energy footprit, and to reduce my long term costs. More recently I invested in a wind farm (via Ripple energy) which will generate my annual grid electricity requirements, and reduce my electricty bills through sales of the generated electricity to the grid.
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I tend to agree, why cover land with solar when we have such a small percentage of solar panels on domestic housing? I don't know about where others live but we live on a small estate of 35 houses and as far as I can tell only 2/3 have solar panels. If there was more Government incentive to help homeowners we could surely produce a lot more electricity? Also help when it comes to charging EV's.
David
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I agree with your sentiment David but it would appear that using house and factory roofs would still be nowhere near enough. Solar derived power in the UK only represents 4% of our requirement, and that is including from all the existing massive solar farms. When we were travelling by train through Ghent in Belgium it was noticeable how many houses had solar panels on the roof. It wasn't exactly pretty but neither is a massive coal fired power station. On a new housing estate near us they are building houses in which the solar panel is the roof so it is far less obtrusive so perhaps we are starting to go down a logical route. There was an excellent TV series recently by Guy Martin about power supply in the UK It was a really fascinating series.
Unfortunately there is still a lot of NIMBYism about. I have a friend who complains constantly about wind farms, even those with just one or two turbines. He ought to have lived where we used to which was about 5 miles west of the Ratcliffe on Soar power station. On a cloudless morning we didn't see the sun for several hours because of the plumes of smoke and condensate from the cooling towers.
My attitude is let those that don't use any electricity at all complain about the sources of power. All others must put up and shut up.
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And still we do nothing about the 24/7/365 100% reliable tidal power. Neither has anything been done about planning permission being conditional upon fitting solar arrays to all buildings. It's just lip service to green coupled with a nice little earner for the 'right' people.
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JohnM20
Solar derived power in the UK only represents 4% of our requirement, and that is including from all the existing massive solar farms
I think its more than that, but its hard to say how much more. The 4% accounts (as you say) for grid connected solar, but does not include "embedded generation" that is generation behind a consumption meter, where the energy is directly used (or possibly returned to the grid).
I my case, my modest 3.12kW peak solar array, split a not very efficient 50:50 east west facing, generates around 2.4MWh each year, almost all of which I consume myself. From March8th 2022 to today (i.e. 1 year) I bought in 10.936MWh of grid electricity. Of that 3.47MWh were used to charge the cars.
So my embedded generation is enough to supply something like 1/5th to 1/4 of my home needs, and around 1/6th if you include charging.
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I have to confess as a vehicle technician of 40 years (not sure how that happened), I am no fan of EVs. If you were to purchase one outright make sure you have seriously deep pockets if things go wrong. Batteries can cost up to 18K. Inverters circa 10K before fitting costs are added. Granted there is no guarantee these will fail but as with any mass produced component they can & do. How long does your mobile phone battery last? As an aside a CAT earth mover will use approx 900 litres of diesel to extract enough lithium for ONE Tesla battery. How is that in any way environmentally friendly. Vehicles should not only be assessed on their exhaust emissions which they are at every MOT, but their carbon footprint from manufacture to end of life. I think you may be surprised at the result. I fully understand that EVs suit some peoples needs but I think there needs to be a more balanced approach than there is at the moment.
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Well, my EV has a 5 year warranty and the batteries carry an 8 year warranty so I’m not going to worry about repairs just yet and with servicing only £100 per year, I’m going to have a few quid to spare to help with any costs.
Lithium is being mined only a few miles from my home and, environmentally friendly or not, it is revisiting existing mined ground and providing jobs which helps the local economy as well as individuals in an area of very high housing costs and generally low wages. That seems to be a fairly well balanced approach to my mind. 👍🏻
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EVs _are_ being assessed on their emissions from manufacturing to end of life. They are unequivocally less impactful than combustion vehicles. There are numerous studies by both vehicle manufacturers and independent bodies which agree on that topic.
Comparing a phone battery to a car battery is as appropriate as comparing a lawnmower or hedge trimmer engine to a modern car engine. The sophistication of the management systems in a modern EV battery coupled with its usage pattern make the lifespan completely different.1 -
That in itself is a positive re employment TW👍🏻. I’ve also been following the ‘permanent leasing’ of EV’s, also the battery switching ideas on a drive in/drive out basis. I like the leasing idea rather than ownership, no worries of big expensive hits. It’ll work itself out for sure.
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At present EVs seem to be doing well on their battery life, ours is six years old with minimal loss. Most new evs are now based on similar cellular battery beds, so this design has been well researched and is proving successful.
The more balanced approach is to accept change, however it's also possible to continue using ice vehicles at present if you feel the need to continue with fossil fuels.
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EVs have their place as part of the strategy to tackle the climate crisis. What has become increasingly obvious is that the practicality of an EV for heavy duty work cycles is limited. However, UK manufacturer of heavy plant, JCB, have developed some ICEs that run on Hydrogen.
There have been associated problems with Hydrogen, including leaks and storage due to high pressures. There have also been some issues regarding the emissions. Thankfully the technical problems seem to have been, or are largely being resolved.
The real problem is the generation of green hydrogen, which requires electricity. I would have expected our government to take the lead and sponsor research into new forms of electricity generation like 'rain fuel'. Whoever manages the large scale generation of cheap electricity will not only have a major technical advantage, but will also have huge financial benefits.
The good news is that we are likely to get Hydrogen powered vehicles if someone can crack the cheap electricity generation problem (which probably won't be us). The prospect of being able to choose the size of our given outfit without stopping constantly to refuel is attractive.
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