A Conversation at the NEC
Comments
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https://www.manorafon-farm-park.co.uk/stay/
A sign of the times?
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I think the introduction of metering may be a bit of a conundrum for the club.
As I understand it, and will be happy to be put right, the club seem to have energy agreements with various suppliers around the UK. Each Kw will be charged at a slightly different unit base. I can foresee members who use various sites around the country being unhappy about having to pay a different rate. Maybe they'll balance it up by having varying charge for bollard use etc, just like a standing charge used by energy companies nowadays, and therefore standardise the charge.
It is going to need excellent, or at least very good, Communication skills from the club to explain this before initiating it and we all know how poor that is at present.
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I think that is the second one to do this WN. I recall I hightlighted another one in another thread on costs. It was one where the campsite was not their main business. Cannot remember the name or the thread. They were putting more emphasis on running their animal sanctury/zoo not their campsite.
I think the portion of cost of a pitch price down to electric consumption is between £4 to £6. I would expect at least a £4 reduction in cost when meters are fitted even allowing for amortisation of meter installation costs being added to the pitch price.
peedee
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I was on a CL last year next to a fishing lake.
We'd used it before and I mentioned to the owner that I hadn't heard his water pump aerating the lake as often. He told me he had to cut back due to his energy bill rising from £15,000 per year to £45,000. Membership fees had already been paid and it was a members only facility so he couldn't or wouldn't ask for more.
I don't think the general public really appreciate the huge hike in commercial energy prices and the knock on effect that is having.
Must have missed your post Peedee.
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I get the impression that the cottages are back down in Pickering myself, they certainly aren’t up on the Camping Site if you can see passing trains. Looks a nice business though, both aspects.
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I am sure this decision was take after some very thorough research.
On CT members are quick to cite cheaper commercial sites but how many of these have understood their likely 2023 utility bills as well as the inflationary costs on everything else they buy.
If they are to stay in business their prices will surely need upward adjustment or more touring sites will take the easy option of just having statics or sell to a static operator as the rental income is guaranteed regardless of weather, fuel costs etc.
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Peedee
I suspect the readiness to listen and take notice and be concerned of comments on here and other Social Media is only likely to happen if the Club start to lose members in large numbers and occupancy rates fall below a level they are happy with? If neither of those two things happen they will just weather the storm and be convinced the decisions they made were correct. I am sure there is a view that the likes of CT and Social Media are just a way of letting people let off steam and once they have exhausted their frustration members will settle down to the normal rhythm of life? Let's face it some of the comments on the change of name were bordering on the hysterical and unfortunately some became very personal. The booking system change is different as it does impact on nearly all members directly. I am sure you are right that many people don't like change and perhaps the flaw here is that the Club have not sufficiently explained the aims and the practicalities of the new system. As they say only time will tell!
David
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In a nutshell, no Rocky. The Club in the last decade or so has catered mainly for the roll in, hook up to everything, pay whatever it costs user, and that’s the core of its users still. (Nothing wrong with this if it’s your chosen way of touring, I am not knocking anyone’s choices).
Hence there are now far fewer basic facility Sites, more and more serviced pitches on remaining Sites, and the Club’s prices have just gone up and up each year. If you are a frugal usage camper, and either don’t mind the daily chores, or can still comfortably manage them, then you can get better value for money by using some of the lovely CLs and other options.
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I would expect that a business will indeed be aware of rising costs, including electricity and gas, as they will have signed a supply contract for a certain length of time, and their prices will need to reflect their costs. If they do not, then they will not survive.
A full facility family run commercial site we stayed on a year ago has increased their price from £27 to £29 per night in June, which, for a serviced pitch is still very reasonable. They offer seasonal pitches and a few glamping pods, but otherwise it is only tourers and MHs.
I think the Club is suffering from being so big and having to support head office staff rather than just site staff. They have also spent a lot on buying sites, perhaps time to rein in the non essential spending until things, hopefully, settle down.
I think they are also trying to make up for the lost revenue during Covid shut downs.
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Interesting comments KJ. We've all been subsidised through the last few months by gov.uk (well it's our money but it has helped to have some returned to us.) Businesses like CAMC have had to take the strain on their own. How things work out for any of us when the subsidies stop, prices go up further and energy costs remain volatile is anyone's guess but the coming year is not going to be easy for commercial enterprises either. I do hope the club succeeds in pulling through, I think it was a shock to them when they saw energy costs rising at an alarming rate but if prices go up I would expect to see efforts on savings happening too. Energy consumption on a grand scale is very wasteful.
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Ttda, I agree. The Club knows its clientele very well. It sees the sort of caravans and motorhomes the members buy - vehicles fitted with every sort of computerised convenience and comfort, ever bigger and grander. . Simple camping has gone - and the Club is providing sites to meet the requirements of the majority of its members. Not me and not you. but we are the minority and we plough our own furrow. And I am happy that way.
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I was very surprised that the Club did not have good fixed price contracts lasting longer, or had not taken out new ones as soon as they could. Presumably they did not expect the high prices of fuels to last so long.
Very few domestic customers will now still be on fixed rates, so the price guarantees for we ordinary folk have been good, but, while we are fortunate to have savings we can use, many people have no option but to cut back, which we have also been doing. The present prices are about 2.5 to 3 times what we used to pay, so savings have to be made.
We have saved on gas and electricity by heating less of the house, and turning a few things off, and I would agree that the Club needs to make more effort to get members to use less, rather than just increasing prices all the time.
Metering will certainly concentrate the mind for most of us. Hopefully it will also keep pitch fees more reasonable, the level they are at now for these extended peak periods is eye watering. Just glad we can also spend time away at other times, though even then we find most Club sites are not VFM for us.
Currently searching for suitable CLs and commercials for our June/July trip. There is better VFM out there.
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That’s an interesting point, what were the consequences of not running that aeration pump as often? I can see it not being as necessary during the cold months but as it warms up it may be required more. The lake owner has hopefully done his homework and found sensible ways to cut costs with hopefully no detriment to the inhabitants, fish or fishermen alike. Though that begs the question was it really necessary in the past to run those pumps so often?
We all have to do the same at home and on holidays now. We are all in this boat together aren't we? Some I feel, when it comes to site usage, only care for their own ‘comfort’ and are not mindful to the plight of others mind. This observation I’ve concluded from similar threads about electric consumption in the past. Either we all change our habits or changes like metering will happen and I’m sure non of us will find that a painless cost cutting exercise.0 -
This fan heater at home uses approx 4-5 pence of electricity per hour, we normally only heat the awning for a couple of hours in the evening whilst we eat, i should say we do not have a TV so never sit in the caravan watching television, have no idea how much electricity a TV uses per hour but some folk seem to have them on from dawn to dusk.
Surely Rufs, you must be a bit out with your estimation of costs of your fan heater or you have a very, very low output fan heater, about 160 Watts in my calculation with the equivalent heat output of three 60W incandescent light bulbs. I've never seen one below 500 watts and most are 1000 and/or 2000 Watts. Even at 500 watts the cost to run it would be over £0.17 per hour and that is at domestic tariffs not the generally higher commercial rates.
As for television, a typical and commonly used Avtex tv is 26 Watts so, at the government's capped price of £0.34 per kilowatt, this equates to less than one penny per hour to watch tv. Not really any comparison with a fan heater.
Please scream at me if you think I have got these calculations wildly wrong.
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That’s an interesting point, what were the consequences of not running that aeration pump as often? I can see it not being as necessary during the cold months but as it warms up it may be required more. The lake owner has hopefully done his homework and found sensible ways to cut costs with hopefully no detriment to the inhabitants, fish or fishermen alike. Though that begs the question was it really necessary in the past to run those pumps so often?
Mine was not to reason why Mickysf. I'm sure though that the owner knew how to look after his stock, a lot better than I would. His livelihood after all.
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I take your point Wn, but that’s part of the problem. Like I said, it was either necessary to run the pump as frequently or it was frivolous. We rely totally on others to make the right decisions but unfortunately, as we see so often these days, there is more to a right decision than meets the eye, or so we are told. I’m currently in Spain and guess what, I see no evidence of fruit and veg shortages in the supermarkets or greengrocers here. I only mention this as many will reason why! Maybe we should more often.
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not screaming as cant really dispute your figures as i have no idea what the going rate for lecce is on a campsite, at home we are on a 3 year fixed tariff at 12.5 pence per kw so i guess if the blower on thermostat is only running for a total of 30 mins then you get something like 6 pence, surprised a TV is so low on power, but as said dont have one in the caravan, however, if things like a TV etc are so low on power i am puzzled as to how the lecce consumption on sights has risen so much, well that is what the club say.
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I have spent a couple of hours this morning looking at sites, I've booked one non facility CAMC site for a night, around £21 and I'm now looking at CLs etc which are also much the same. I found one for £16 where EHU is metered and there is an option to go without which is helpful. These searches are getting harder but there are still some reasonable choices out there but I can't justify paying some of the CAMC prices.
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You're obviously on a very good deal, Rufs. Most people that I have spoken to locally say that their electric price now is close to, if not actually at, the governments capped figure of £0.34 per unit. A CL that we know have metered pitches. Their commercial rate for electric is £1.05 per kW which is the price that they charge users via the meter. At that rate it is probably cheaper to heat water and run the fridge etc using LPG.
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yes, lecce provider screwed up and gave me a 3 year fixed deal at the same price as my previous 3 year deal, silly billies,
Wow £1.05 per kw, would not be heating the awning at those rates, not that we tour much in the UK, and certainly not in the winter months.
not long returned from Spain €0.15 per kw, with a 5kw free allowance per day, and €15 per day for pitch, we sure are doing something wrong in this country.
p.s. fully serviced very large pitch, 7.3mtr caravan, awning, car and still ample space to sit outside.
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Here's an example from my site, 90 pitches, no toilet block. Last year (2022) we had an increase in consumption of 20% on the 2021 season. Ok you might say, new toys etc, but, the occupancy was 30% less than'21, so people are using more. With the electric price rise we ended up with a bill of 3 times the projected budget.
JK
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That rate doesn't sound right. We overwintered at Alannia resort (Camping Marjal) for 7 years and the rate was 35c after the 4kw allowance (12 month rate) and the site we moved to before lockdown was 40c with no allowance (2020).
JK
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Thinking forward, when all sites pitches are metered, that will effectively make every pitch on the whole network a non electric pitch until / if you plug in. Food for thought
JK
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JK, I can assure you that was the rate we paid in November last year at Los Madriles and the site at Benicarlo. Both sites apologised that the charge had gone up. As it happens we paid nothing as we were within allowance.
Or were you replying to rufs🤔
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Well I dont know what analysis the Club, or other site owners have, but there have been reports of high amounts of electricity used on sites, not just CAMC sites. I do think that where electricity is included in the pitch price then there is a tendency to use electricity where ever possible - so heating, hot water, cooking, kettle, fridge. I also wonder is people leave their hot water/heating on all day & evening, whether in the van or not. Now obviously thermostats will cut in, but I guess vans are less thermally efficient than most homes. So leave heating on all day whilst you are out will clock up quite a lot of electricity.
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Sorry TG, yes I was replying to rufs. Been to Spain for 13 years and even back then it was never 15c
JK
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