Is EHU metering a good investment?
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I wouldn't mind meters going in on sites but not if it increased the nightly rate of the pitch. Where would the benefit be with that.
I would like the option of no ehu but not on the pitch at the bottom of the site in the corner under the trees on grass, thank you very much. The option should be on every pitch on the site even SPs
We use metered pitches while visiting other countries, one we used last year had started to charge for electricity since our visit in 2021. Each pitch had a meter on it which was read on arrival and again on departure, the cost was then charged to your account if you were over the allocated daily rate. They didn't close the site to install the meters it didn't take all year to do the 100+ pitches they have.
Why do sites have to have different suppliers of electricity? the firm I worked for before retiring had offices all over Scotland. I remember when all offices came under the same electricity contract with one company. Standing charges will be paid differently due to each area being charged a different rate. Surely an electricity supplier would jump at the chance of taking on a single contract for the clubs sites. I'm aware that the club could not charge more than they are paying for electricity but couldn't it be averaged out across all sites rather than working out a price for each individual site.
I think I'm right in saying that the C&CC have a standard rate difference for non ehu pitches across their network, happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
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TG, I don't think the metered cost could be averaged across the site network as that would inevitably mean some sites charging more than they paid for it and put the club in breach of the secondary supplier regs. Effectively, averaging the cost is what camc already does by including it in the site fees but without the advantage/disadvantage of only paying for what you use.
Electricity costs vary across the country as well as between power companies. For instance, electricity costs in the SW are higher than in many other areas.
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TW, I think TG meant average the contract rate between sites, not the paid rate at the pitches. When selling on, you cant exceed the supplied paid rate. That could still be common on all sites with a single contract?
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I don’t think site owners need be restricted by the price they can sell on electricity to visitors - just look at the prices being charged on motorways and public forecourts to charge electric vehicles. Some reports say it’s sometimes dearer than filling up with petrol.
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Perhaps she did but it appeared to me to mean the resale rate which would indeed lead to a breach of the regs. 🤷♂️
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That's a different ball game, Euro, and something ChocT has explained previously.
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I've also heard caravanners saying 'if I have to pay that I'll use all the electric I can, leave the heating and water heater on all day,
There is a school of thought which I subscribe to, that this can be cheaper than reheating the space and water once cold as long as it is thermostatically controlled. At home my space and water heating is never turned off when home. Space heating is controlled by my smart thermostat which just turns it down according to our settings but it is never off even when away and even in summer. I can also control this remotely. The only time the hot water is turned off is when not required i.e. when we go away.
peedee
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Agreed - a common resale rate with differing per site contract rates would lead to regs issues! 👍
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As TW says, electric vehicle charging via a dedicated charging point (I.e. a Type 1, Type 2, CCS or ChaDaMo plug / socket, as opposed to 3 pin socket, or IEC309 connector) is not subject to the resale price cap. There is a whole document from OfGem dedicated to explaining different scenarios and what applies where. Its quite interesting if you are interested in that sort of thing.
Taking Charge: selling electricity to Electric Vehicle drivers
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Indeed and if a business decides to do that then great. Let them do it.
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Same for me at home and in my caravan if needed, and that's not the same as I'll use all the electric I can, it's using the electricity I need to enjoy my holiday. I refuse to come back to a cold caravan in winter after a day out.
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Why have different suppliers, why not just have 1 supplier for the whole network. If it was just 1 supplier then the club could negotiate a rate for all the sites. Then the cost could be averaged out across the network the only difference would be the standing charge.
Standing charge, like the SW we are amongst the highest in the UK as we are classed as remote, we are all of 7 miles from the SSEs headquarters, I could understand it if we were highland Perthshire but we are not.
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"Why have different suppliers" is not a question I can answer nor, I suspect, can anyone else here. Best ask the energy suppliers or CAMC, TG👍🏻
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Ah, right. It sure read like a question addressed to me. Again, it’s something to ask CAMC - perhaps it’s one for the next AGM. 🤔
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Bump!
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A couple of points.
Why not one supplier? - If you do a search for cheapest supplier I know pre-Ukraine conflict the results were very postcode specific. When we lived in Formby, my mothers cheapest supplier in Southport, about 8 miles away, would have been one of our most expensive.
Something deep in my grey matter tells me it was/is illegal to sell on electricity. This would appear to no longer be the case.
I must admit though, that the idea of charging for electricity used to me seems very fair.
Colin
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Once electricity is metered there is a complete change of mindset over it's use. Spanish sites are predominantly metered and the one we are on charges 0.55 Euros per kWh (unit). Although there is also an option to prepay for 150 units a month at a lower price.
People use energy much more "considered". Gas is often used for heating. (LPG works out around 0.15 Euros per unit).
You start to learn what you use to make the best decision. So I know our under-counter Dometic fridge uses 4 units per day; background usage is 1 unit per day. Heating the awning costs 1.5 units per hour; heating the van for 2 hours morning and 3 in the evening is 10 units; That's with nighttime temperatures above 10C and daytime around 18C; Imagine the usage in the UK with our temperatures.
Some commercial contracts in the UK have electricity at £1 a unit. It's not difficult to imagine a large van with full height fridge / freezer using £20 - £30 of electricity a day.
Not being able to add a margin to pay for the infrastructure (Electricity regs) of meters is a huge problem but medium term I don't see there will be a choice.
Technology wise surely smart cards / phones loading money on and off the bollard is the way to go, not involving any payments and additional "touch-points" with the wardens.
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Some commercial contracts in the UK have electricity at £1 a unit. It's not difficult to imagine a large van with full height fridge / freezer using £20 - £30 of electricity a day.
I think your usage is a bit of an exaggeration. I have such a fridge in my motorhome and when I over wintered in Spain my consumption was 4Kwh per day running the fridge, battery charger and boiling the occasional kettle. Space and water heating was using gas.
I also think sites can charge for electricity supply infrastucture including meters to recover the capital cost over the anticipated life time of the equipment. It is only usage that profit is not allowed. Approved meters are usually guaranteed accurate for up to 20 years before it is recommended they are replaced.
peedee
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The Club do seem to be sitting on their hands on this one. They seem to acknowledge that charging for use is the fairer way of doing things but I assume they are concerned about the massive cost of installing meters across the network. Thus far they have not even thought to change the system over to meters on sites they are refurbishing where the costs could be more tightly controlled as probably new bollards are being installed anyway. I suppose there could be several reasons why they are reluctant to move on this. It would be likely that changing over to meters would take some time so you would have some sites with and some without. What would the situation be with sites on short leases, would it be wasted money? Are they just waiting for energy prices to stabilise so they need to do nothing?
David
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The cost will not be massive compared to buying a site and refurbishing it! I will be interested to see what they do with Steamer Quay and other refurbishments. I don't think it should make any difference to having some sites equipped with meters and others not after all it does not prevent members from not using EHU and by the same token it does not matter if they never equip sites on short leases. The longer it drags on I think the worse it will get because don't forget there is the spectre of the increase in electric vehicles hanging over the Club's head and members are certainly not going to cut back on electricity usage while it remains unmetered.
peedee
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"the spectre of the increase in electric vehicles"
And this includes electric campervans. I accept it may be some time before we see electric fully fledged motorhomes but there are now increasing numbers of electric campervans. OK - some time before they become common. One featured in magazines recently (cant remember which mags) which runs equipment off lithium leisure batteries and solar (massive amounts) and anticipates plugging in to pitch socket for charging vehicle battery on the basis that it will take no more electricity than "normal" non electric vans hooked up to use electricity in the van. Can also charge from normal charge points.
The CAMC is envisaging electric cars charging at charge points in car parks. Obviously not appropriate for electric campervans.
If we project forward five years electric campervans will be more common. Five years is not a long way off in planning terms for the Club for refurbishments etc. I just hope that, even though as DK says they seem to be sitting on their hands, a lot of appropriate planning is going on behind the scenes.
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Aren't we more or less in agreement 4 or 5 units a day before heating?
Based on our gas usage we are adding 10 units a day for heating, cooking and bbq. Hence when much colder in UK and maybe a fridge twice the size I don't think it's too far out at £20 - £30. The club may not though be paying the top whack commercial rate and of course this usage is winter not summer.
Without meters though and their current pricing it would appear that maybe summer pricing is subsidising winter stays??
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Well I think it was you who quoted a certain sum per pitch to install meters and then the overall cost across the network was a few million, wasn't it?
Do you know how much a site costs to buy and/or refurb? Even it's the same or more as a club user (you have said you're going to use club sites less and less and perhaps none I recall?) I would personally spend the money on new sites and refurbishments which will at least enable the costs to be recouped unlike meters and the 'evidence' appears to shows it what those actually using club sites really want.
... are certainly not going to cut back on electricity usage while it remains unmetered
Even with meters why would I want to cut back on my electricity usage? I don't at home and when I'm on holiday that is will be the last thing I will do. I won't abuse but I will use whatever electricity I need to enjoy myself, meters or not. And if you think sites prices will go down at all or even significantly with meters then as others have posted before you might be wrong as even you appear to admit:
I also think sites can charge for electricity supply infrastucture including meters to recover the capital cost over the anticipated life time of the equipment.
But then if you're not using club sites?
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OH has been looking at where we might go this year, April to October.
She has found quite a few CLs, and some small commercial sites, are now saying that electricity will be metered. Some are including maybe 10kWh in the site fee, others include none but have reduced their price and made EHU optional.
It would be good if sites that do this included some idea of the price per kWh they will be charging. Prices are likely not fixed for a long period, but it would be easy for those with web sites to keep their prices updated, and the price to be clearly displayed on the site.
Without having some idea of the unit cost, one would have little idea of what a stay might cost, whether the stay would be affordable, and whether using gas would work out less expensive.
So far, OH has not found any site that is using metering giving any inkling as to the likely cost per kWH.
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A good point, at the very least they should give the current (yes pun intended) price?
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Kj
I think you will have to take that up with individual campsites as it will depend whether its a Domestic/Commercial/or contract price. Probably looking for a minimum of 50p KWh and perhaps as much as £1 a KWh if a commercial contract. You are going in the warmer months of the year so I suppose a rough guide of say £5 a day depending on whether you make use of your gas supply for more than cooking?
David
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Our fridge/freezer uses 4kWh per day, so with lights, battery charging, TV and the toaster, we might get away with 5kWh.
However, April can be cold, especially up here, and we would usually use our own facilities. Many CLs have no facilities anyway, so it would be a lot more than that for heating and hot water if using electricity, even doing all the cooking by gas.
Luckily we have refillable bottles, so using gas for heating and HW is perfectly possible and not too expensive, but for anyone using Calor it could get expensive. The only problem might be keeping the bottles topped up, depending on where we go.
Yes, one would of course have to ask the individual site, just puzzled why, if they are metering, they have not thought to indicate even the current pricing in their site details. And keep the info updated. There is a big difference between 50p and £1 per kWh.
I think at £1 per kWh we might be going away a lot less!!
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Yes we are, sorry but I misunderstood your post and thought you were saying £20 to £30 was the price of just running the fridge.
I note in todays news a big energy supplier is predicting prices of energy will remain high and he does not expect gas and electricity bills to return to the levels they were before Covid.
peedee
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