Is EHU metering a good investment?
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You've asked this before about solar panels and a fair number answered to say they already exist on club sites.
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Agreed Brue, but if the club are going to 'work with' members then the Club has to show that's it is serious about reducing overall costs and how customers (I must be the only person who uses this word on CT, perhaps that's what the club doesn't treat them as such?) as well as the club can benefit from the gains made.
it can't just be a one way street....or can it😉
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It's absolutely a reasonable request but a request is very different from the autocratic banning suggested by CY.
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I missed this post earlier. There is a lot of work going on with heat pumps in this area, Rocky, and they are proving to be far from efficient and very noisy. That'll go down well on club sites😄
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Depends what you mean by the "jury is out". A heat pump us unequivocally the most efficient way to bring heat into a space, producing around 3x the heat energy for the electrical energy used. But they are costly to install, and do have different characteristics to conventional boilers that can make them unsuitable for direct replacement in some situations.
A gas condensing boiler is at best 90% efficient when run in condensing mode, which gas a lower maximum heat output than in non-condensing mode (which may be more like 70% efficient).
If a newbuild is on the cards then a heatpump, with well sized south facing solar PV, a battery and decent insulation will be very hard to beat from an efficiency and economy PoV over its lifetime.
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How expensive are heat pumps? for an average home and for a place like a caravan site?
Totally ignorant on these.
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Not cheap. I believe a home grade unit may be of the order £10K to £20K installed. Of course they come in different sizes and powers, with different install costs, but are more than a condensing boiler of the same output.
Very much a long term investment.
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If one suffers we all suffer-nice one Tinster your sense of fairness does you credit👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻
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You are wasting your knowledge on me ChocT, I have a 2022 model woodburner that heats my home & reduces my monthly power bill to sub £100(£30+ with £66 off) I won’t be changing anything soon. Thanks for the info but no thanks🙂
PS-I’m a juror👍🏻
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Thanks. I'm not a believer in dictating what others should do when it is their right to chose👍
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Yes I’d generally agree but there again there are loads of behaviours we are ‘banned’ from doing on site, it’s just some take not a blind bit of notice to some rules and continue to abuse just because they can and seemingly get away with it. I know it’s not quite like that with electric usage but it just seems to me that some are vehemently agains the thought of metering just because they will be ‘forced’ to pay their way. May be others just wish, whilst on holiday, to just turn a blind eye to being that tad more frugal than they are in their own home. Some will of course ‘enjoy’ the fact that we frugal few are currently forced to subsidise their habits.
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I don't think anyone is suggesting to rush out and install an heat pump, especially if you have an economical solution that you are happy with.
As I said, it depends entirely on your perspective. If you are looking for efficiency (minimum input energy for maximum output energy), a heat pump is hard to beat.
If you are looking for economy, then often keeping what you have is a good start. Changing is only good if you can look at economy over time, so you have to have sufficient time for your investment to pay out.
I would not switch from my old 1997 boiler to a heat-pump now, as I am not sure how much longer I will be in this property. Same for switching from my 2005 gas range to an induction range. But I was able to invest in a battery as I can take it with me when I move.
For the Club, for any location that is owned, or has sufficient lease time, and is appropriate for change, the investment may well be very worthwhile over the lifespan of the facility.
👍🏻on being a Juror - I have not yet been asked :-)
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In the UK doggy bags are quite common if food is left
One of our neighbours said to us that the Turkey carcasses from Toby Carvery's are available if your pets if you ask ,and normally will give nearly a weeks pet food, the carvery just bins them even though they are not completely finished
When we were in Italy it was the Germans who we saw taking food from the breakfast for their lunches?
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I do like a nice hot shower and the club could definitely lead on going a little greener in Site facs..
The photo isn't Spain, however just about every house there has one of these on the roof to generate their hot water.
im not sure how viable they might be in the UK but with a large enough array the contribution might be significant enough?....
a guy next to me on a THS this summer had 3 largish water bottles that sat in a black box with a perspective lid. By lunchtime the water was too hot to touch and he used it, mixed with a tad of cold water, for his shower each day.
no tech involved but just the power of the sun was enough to give him his supply. No gas reqd on his boiler, adding to the longevity and reducing cost.
a larger, more high tech version would seem to have some merit?
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I get fed up with opening the magazine and constantly reading of 'upgrading' and 'refurbishing'. Granted I don't have to use the fancy sites but we are all paying for them in our fees. We are supposed to enjoy the get away from it all aspect of caravanning yet more sites are going all-electric, showers, glamping etc. Electricity is going up and any site refurb should include metered electric. We have just looked at booking a CL where the cost is now £7 a night above the listed price 'because of the electric'. That equates to £210 a month - I don't pay that for my gas/electric/water and house insurance combined at home when I'm using a washer, dishwasher etc so how can a site justify this? Nearly all the sites are now saying price 'from' which seems to give carte blanche to increase it. I've also heard caravanners saying 'if I have to pay that I'll use all the electric I can, leave the heating and water heater on all day, cook on electric etc to justify the cost' - -which will all lead to costs escalating again.
I know there are cost implications and other issues but if the Club 'lobby' is as powerful as our leaders would like us to believe perhaps they should use some of that influence and make metering happen.
We like to caravan year round and go off-grid when we can but sometimes we like to use electric. Those occasions will be far fewer this year and we are also looking at the CCC THS as an option for summer trips.
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i just read this morning about a site in north Wales which is not going to open for 2023 because they consider the costs are too high and are largely blaming it on the high cost of the commercial electric he has to pay for. Will this be the first of what is to come?
peedee
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Agree with your post. The club likes to promote 'fairness' and this could be interpreted in a few ways...
how about.... 'we are going to refurb loads of sites, it will cost a packet (we tell you repeatedly in the mag) but all members will pay the same as we are putting up fees and membership subs to cover the costs'
Or this...'we are going to install electricity meters on every pitch so that all customers get an accurate measure of the amount of electricity they use and will pay accordingly.'
what we (customers) need is a bit of carrot and stick (the above options) to keep us on side...the stick is that installing meters will cost money and we all need to pay for them, the carrot is that, for frugal users, your site fees might go down...
folk don't mind investment (and some cost) if they can see some tangible benefit (in their pocket) at the end of the process.
as mentioned earlier, a notice in the gents won't make a happeth of difference to members' attitudes to saving electricity....they'll do what they've always done.
If the club offers (in effect) a decent discount it might make a difference....?
the key is that measure of 'discount'...the price for a non EHU pitch.
It certainly has to be pitched right, folk used to camping off grid in the summer at CLs and THS sites (OK, no shower block) will have been paying between (say) £10-12 (THS) and £15-17 (non EHU CL) if the club can't get anywhere near this (they won't be able to) then I can't see 'the sort of folk who camp this way' being persuaded to stump up a summer time price of (say) £25-£30 without any electric.
For info, the New Forest Centenary site, mentioned a few times earlier, has a non peak summertime price of £36 for a non electric price (in fact it's THE non EHU pitch, there's only one on the plan), £6.90 less than a similar grass with EHU pitch....peak is £39.40...that's a shed load of cash for a parking spot and a shower...
at the back end of September it's possible to get a 'bargain' non EHU pitch at £31.50.
I think the biggest issue will be where the club sets its base price...but that's possibly restricted by the reselling regs...is £6.90 the differential on every site? If different, is this possible because the club is selling 'access to a bollard' rather than the estimated electricity usage per night?
at least with an EHU, customers 'feel' they're getting something for their money, take that away but don't pitch the base price low enough and naked pitches suddenly seem pretty expensive.
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Well said YT!
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how about.... 'we are going to refurb loads of sites, it will cost a packet (we tell you repeatedly in the mag) but all members will pay the same as we are putting up fees and membership subs to cover the costs'
Or this...
Or this perhaps,
this is what we're going to do with our sites and our prices are clearly displayed for membership and staying on them. Also we're basing this on the demand that we see on our club sites and that SP and refurbishments do really bring in a lot of money. So really the ball is in your court. You can either pay to be a member and pay to stay on our sites and be a part of it or you can opt to go elsewhere. We are not forcing anyone to join, stay with us or be in any way on side, in fact what what we see in that many people vote with their money and wheels to stay with us and we feel that many are on side already and we don't need to make anyone more on side. I mean look at the amount of money we made at Seacroft over Christmas with all SP taken and 80% of them motorhomes, we think it what people want.
what we (customers) need is a bit of carrot and stick (the above options) to keep us on side
what we need? how you can speak for all the customers surely you're only speaking for yourself here, and again do we need to be kept on side? Most people using club sites already. You aren't going to club sites so why not leave it to those that do? and they can decide by using club sites.
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Well other sites have high costs too and they are paid by those visiting?, I assume what they mean is they won't get anyone to come to their site to pay for those higher prices. I have no idea why, maybe it's just not an attractive site or the location?
Of course they could open as a basic non EHU site, we're often told on CT that there is a huge demand for this?
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They could perhaps continue on a "non EHU' basis with a competitive price rather than shut down the business.
We're not going to see an approach like that with CAMC which as has been suggested in this thread the stance was summarised as "Pay up or push off. We've got enough punters who will pay whatever we ask".
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I have tried checking up on this but I cannot even find where I read about it but I vaguely remembered the name of the site. I think I found their web site and there is now no mention of a campsite and it looks like this was not a major part of the business. My guess is they considered the side line no longer worth running at the high prices they would have to charge. It is possible they have just closed for the winter but this seems unlikely. Maybe they will reopen with meters fitted?
peedee
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Yes hope so, but it's unlikely as they would have to spend money to install them?
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The problem with running it as a side line is there is a fair chance they didn’t give it the attention it required and they failed to future proof prices. That’s fine when prices are rising slowly, but when you get the current situation of rapidly rising prices, particularly for energy, it would mean a very large jump. Folk who stayed last year are perhaps going to bulk at a £10 to £15 increase, where as they wouldn’t if it had increased more slowly. Even if they went non EHU they might not be in a position to lower prices and make a profit, which is hardly going to sit well with past customers.
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