Is EHU metering a good investment?
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Apologies for being off thread but I felt I needed to query a statement made by young thomas. He stated :-
" yet the market is rushing headlong into motorhome ownership".
Is this still a fact? According to a salesman that I know from one of the major caravan / motorhome dealers, he told me that at the last NEC show, the enquiries about motorhomes was only about 40% compared with 60% for caravans. The previous year it had been the opposite way round.
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If 'only' 40% of new tourers were motorhomes, that's still an enormous amount compared to say five years ago.
in between we've had Covid, staycations etc and now very heavy price pressure. I suspect its much to do with the fact that caravans are still within range for a lot of folk but with MH van conversions starting at nr £60k and even Autotrail and Swift selling vans at over £100k it's a different scenario to back when the boom started.
Anyway, back to EHU....🙂
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These stats are 5 years out of date but might serve to show trends? https://www.thencc.org.uk/Our_Industry/statistics.aspx As you can see the sales of caravans have not, in the stats shown, exceeded their previous peak. On the other hand motorhomes sales continue to rise. I am not sure there is any evidence to suggest that relative trends have changed in the following five years. Caravans, are of course , no longer cheap and motorhomes even more expensive. Most motorhomes seem to be on extended delivery, up to a year is not uncommon and prices since covid have risen. As the manager of my local dealer said what was £50,000 pre COVID is now £70,000!
To bring it back to the topic, the more motorhomes there are, which tend to have the ability more so than caravans to operate independently of EHU should they wish the demand for metering or non electric pitches could increase. That is by no means certain as there is no way of telling whether given the option motorhomers might decide to use EHU in the same way as caravanners. Until the option of choice is out there we will never know with any certainty?
David
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David, more and more MH are coming with solar panels and lithium batteries aren't necessarily just options....well they have to fit something to justify the outrageous prices!
Dealers are going to push the added value of such extras and the main one will be the ability to operate away from a hook up given reasonable weather.
As these MHers become more confident with their new found powers, they will add to the calls for sites to give the option of a non inclusive hook up, especially if electric prices continue to rise and the 'cost' of this inclusivity becomes ever more noticeable.
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I gather from the volume of your posts that you are infavor of non EHU and I appreciate your point of view but please don't assume and imply that all motorhomers have the same opinion. This hobby is all about choices and the only right way to tour is the way that is right for you.
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The OP is, Is EHU metering a good investment, rather than should members be given the choice. Our MH came with solar panels, because I specified them, primarily to keep the batteries in good condition whilst in storage. As Covid came with its lock downs within a year of taking ownership, it proved a wise investment. We do use them occasionally to stop at locations we want to visit, where EHU is not available. However, if EHU was available we would use it, wether it be inclusive, optional or metered, using it to the same extent in each case. Therefore in the case of folk like us, investing in the cost of metering would be a waste of money, as it would make no difference to wether we used the site or not. The primary deciding factor being location.
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Or to put it another way, investment in metering may be good for a site because it would make no difference to you selecting it, but would allow the site to sell its pitch at a competitive price, independent of the current price of electricity.
I.e. your indifference to metering or not, is the reason to move forward with it.
What has to be balanced (for the site) is the cost of offering an all inclusive pitch, that remains competitive for low electricity users, against the marginal price of electricity. If unit (kWh) price is high, the cost of the pitch has to cover the high end of users to ensure the site does not make a loss.
The higher the kWh cost, the greater the proportion of the pitch fee. Metering allows the return of that ability to price the pitch on merit, not energy cost. As prices rise so metering becomes not just a good investment, but critical in ensuring profitability can be balanced with marketability.
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I think there are probably a lot of folk who think that way and are unlikely to be swayed by headline prices, that don’t include EHU because it’s metered, much preferring to know the cost of their holiday in advance. Never been on one but those all inclusive holidays seem popular enough.
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Agreed, there is no right way to tour and we all do it differently.
Like you, im only interested in choices😉
as I've said, MH are now being fitted with more kit which allow a 'way of touring' that wasn't/isn't possible a few years back without this kit.
It's just a by product of a shift forward in technology and, for those who wish to take advantage there's a whole world of vans (when away from say CAMC sites) who don't use a hook up all/some of the time.
some of these will also be CAMC members and I guess they might like the choice to use a CAMC but with the choice to have a tariff without EHU.
personally, I made the choice to have more solar fitted to my van as it gives me more choices as to where we can camp and for how long.
no right it wrong way, just folk using technology to allow a wider choice of options.
with club prices rising (especially noticeable with an EHU inclusive price) more folk are going to be considering their options and what that big panel on their roof can do for them.
that's choice👍
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+1.
Yes before COVID we did quite a few of those all inclusive and we have a few planned. The first time we were amazed that we actually came back with the vast majority of the money we took away.
But bringing it back to the idea, myth really, often posted (not by you) that all-inclusive means people use the maximum available? All the alcohol you want yet I have never see anyone in any state of intoxication, and remember I'm an expert - I've been to the Bigg market in Newcastle on a Friday night (about 40 years ago and to pick up the children when needed now) although the state of undress in the middle of winter is the same as summer in Spain.
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Ve haf veys of making you want electric.
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I suppose staying in France these days and often using ACSI sites, it’s inclusive anyway. Well at least we have never been required to stay within a limit. Thinking about it, at non ACSI sites we have never been asked, they have just assumed we wanted it. I guess you would have to ask if you didn’t, or it would appear on your bill. I suspect that if the option was ever offered here the same assumption would be made, as in most cases it would be wanted.
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"The higher the kWh cost, the greater the proportion of the pitch fee. Metering allows the return of that ability to price the pitch on merit, not energy cost. As prices rise so metering becomes not just a good investment, but critical in ensuring profitability can be balanced with marketability."
along with the fairness element, this para is the nub of where things are heading for CAMC...
The inclusive power element of the pitch price leads to a total that breaches some members' budgets.
with pricing as it is, the club has no way of stopping those prices racing away into the stratosphere given the wrong circumstances.
Some might still continue to 'pay what is necessary' but there has to be a proportion of members who are close to (or have already reached) their own 'limit'.
lots of talk about fully booked sites for next year but time will actually tell as, even with the change inT/C, there's plenty of time to cancel if things continue in the current direction.
so my thoughts are that I'd be happy for the club to use metering or a non EHU option to take the sting out of headline prices.
is either a good investment? One is expensive, one is cheap.
the expensive one would allow members to use some power as opposed to the other option which is no power.
either might have the return of keeping some members on side for a while longer.
only time will tell whether it is (or would have been) 'a good investment'.
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Here is the rub of metering. The majority of users (Club Members) won't see any real benefit from the vast cost of installing meters because they are still going to be paying for a pitch and electricity on top of that. So the difference is unlikely to be more than a few pence either way. Any saving in pitch fees due to a reduction because you are paying for electricity separately will disappear within a year or two as inflation increases site fees to what they were before they installed meters. This will bring a new wave of complaints that Club sites are too expensive.
A more sensible approach to this would be for the Club to survey members asking what they prefer, do they want to have meters or continue with inclusive prices. What the Club could also do is to set aside two pitches per site designated as non electric pitches (with bollards disabled) to judge if there really was a real demand for for non electric pitches. Having gathered all this information they would be in a much better position to judge the need.
David
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The inclusive power element of the pitch price leads to a total that breaches some members' budgets.
So? This isn't a charity, harsh to some but true, we're not talking about something needed to sustain basic needs, we're talking about using a campsite for people who have the means to buy, tax, service and maintain a caravan/MH. If club prices are not within what they want to pay then as you often post there are lots of cheaper unnamed and just as good sites out for them to use. What is it with wanting a club site? There are either cheaper just as good or there are not? If there are then why argue to use a club site, you have chosen the no more way, others can do the same?
As far your cancellation ideas yes they might and that might have been a valid reasoning before deposits but with paying 20% upfront now it cannot be as valid, if at all?
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Yes +1
I did post upthread that people who actually use club sites should be the ones who should decide (and they do now by actually choosing them instead of others) or at least be the ones who get to get some input into any changes.
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Sounds a sensible summing up to be honest.
Allowing two non hook up pitches won’t attract many though. The Club wouldn’t discount those pitches enough for the likes of us, particularly on a Site with facilities, where the likely saving might only be around £3-5 per night. A decent enough saving if on site for a long stay, but there are far better value for money stays if you look.
I really do think this year will be make or break Membership year for us. It all hinges on how many CLs we will use. At the moment, we only pay in excess of £20 per night in very exceptional circumstances, usually for a special event. This year, our two longest tours have been well below an average of £15 per night, and we haven’t struggled in the warmer months without a hook up.
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We have a van on a seasonal pitch in Suffolk. The site has around 90 pitches, of which 40 are March-October seasonals.
The tourers get a pitch inclusive of electricity, but the seasonals are metered. We were a bit worried about usage when we took the pitch earlier this year, but it has worked well for us.
A trip to reception gave us a card loaded with £40 credit which loaded to the bollard in a few seconds and gave instant reading of remaining units. After 40 nights on site our credit was almost used so we added a further £50 to see us through to the end of the season.
On our final day, the remaining credit of 152 units was easily loaded back on to the card to use next year. We calculated that the electricity cost of 73 nights on site this year was £63, and that included using the Alde heating in April and October.
K&S
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It would need it seems a complete step change by this clubs decision makers ,by actually asking the full membership and not a loaded question. ?,instead of it seems at present a chosen few for their thoughts on if metering is the way forward
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"What the Club could also do is to set aside two pitches per site designated as non electric pitches (with bollards disabled) to judge if there really was a real demand for for non electric pitches."
but that's how the club already manages its 'economy' set up now....one pitch or so, stuffed away where no one would use it.
things have to be done on a fair basis to give any sort of fair results...therefore 'test' pitches have to be in places where members would normally choose to stay.
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Of course it's not a charity, nor are many thousands of businesses all over the uk...however, I'm certain each of them will be looking mightily carefully at their costs and wondering how they can pass enough on to their customers without scaring them away.
you seem to think that as you're in a financially sound position then this must apply to everyone else. I'm fairly confident that there will be many members who really are feeling the pinch.
as you say....tough, it's not a charity...but I'm sure the club should be thinking of smart ways in which it can maintain its level of market place share and it's profit rate (to a degree) but without alienating those who've been loyal for years, and it certainly will be some of those on pensions who will be looking very closely at there ongoing cost commitments.
whilst the club thinks its looking to attract new, younger members, we all know where the core demographic is.
BTW, near TC or not, loads of time (months) for members to decide whether that school holiday fortnight away is still doable (cancel within 21 days and deposit returned)...much water under the financial bridge before then.
as I said, time will tell...
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There are ways and means. The higher base price of electric serviced pitches could offset some of the legalities and restrictions of metered costs. Of course, pitch pricing will have to reflect the whole network’s costings strategy, we’ve always lived will that. Tomorrow may be very different as those on-costs, particularly those energy related ones rise, possibly astronomically. Many of us may be unable to live with that prospect. Some of us may be close now. Difficult times ahead?.
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Is this a club site or a commercial?
if a club site then there is already a model in place to accurately calculate metering costs for the network.
if a commercial, then there is expertise here which could be tapped into to get those cost estimates along with any running costs or manpower requirements.
as it stands from your post, less than a pound a day throughout the summer should allay plenty of fears.
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Actually you keep talking about the demographic core but you don't really know what that is, neither do I but as I use club sites far more than you I think I have a better idea.
You're basing it on those on here and perhaps the two times you use club sites. If you went in summer you might think the core is young families.
Scared away? What evidence do you have for that, all those people who have paid deposits?
If they are feeling the pinch then use these cheaper and better (unnamed) sites you talk about, you're talking as if it has to be a club site?
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It's a commercial site, a couple of miles from the coast.
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The problem here is that any estimates are based on historic data as far as usage is concerned. Unfortunately it is extremely difficult to predict future energy cost effectively. Who would have thought that those costs would be like this now 18 months ago. Heaven knows what the next 18 months will bring.
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