Towing with A frame
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it is NOT prohibited to flat tow in Europe (bar Spain and Portugal) much is said by people on the Internet re this subject. Fact is under the Vienna convention on international traffic (nothing to with Brexit) Nation states are not allowed to recategories legal vehicles when travelling through their country.
Flat towing is legal in the UK therefore by extension it is legal while travelling through Europe. However Spain and Portugal did not sign up to the Vienna convention therefore they can impose their own rules. The licence recovery agents and only them are allowed to flat tow?
HTH
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HTH. You need good language skills to explain the fine details of the Vienna Convention to mobile police officers anywhere across Europe.
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I don't know where you get the information from that the Vienna Convention allows one to tow a car by A-frame while abroad. That is most certainly not the case. Fact is that A-frames are, strictly speaking, not legal in the UK because there are no provisions in UK law for them. Because of that they are only not illegal, and there is a big difference.
Trailers on the Continent must be type approved as trailers and that is a requirement that no A-frame/car combination fulfils. Besides, any permanent modification to the car to attach an A-frame renders its type approval null and void so that would even make the car in its solo condition illegal.
Since Brexit, it is now a requirement in the EU to have trailers over 750kg registered in their own right. This even makes UK caravans illegal as they stand, but this is an open issue which needs to be resolved and until it is, the authorities will, by all reports, continue to apply a temporary exemption to UK outfits.
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any permanent modification to the car to attach an A-frame renders its type approval null and void so that would even make the car in its solo condition illegal.
And that would also apply in UK?
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Theoretically yes, but having seen what has been done to modify some cars one sees on UK roads without apparent issues I doubt whether anyone would follow it up. The authorities probably don't even know that an IVA would be required to cover such modifications.
Things are a bit different on the Continent where all technical modifications to a vehicle are entered in the registration document and these are checked at the equivalent of the MOT. A mate of mine owned a 4x4 which was so heavily modified that the registration document had to have 4 extra pages added.
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It still amazes me that manufactures have for years tried to make cars more pedestrian crash friendly eg removing bonnet mascots, hiding wiper spindles under the trailing edge of bonnets, pyro's under the rear of bonnets that fire if you hit a pedestrian but it's seemingly quite legal to stick two rigid rose joints out of the front of the car & a braking mechanism ... 🤷♂️🤷♂️ I'd imagine they'd hurt A LOT if they came into contact with a pedestrian 🚶♂️
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But what is behind the plastic front of the car can still affect its pedestrian injury performance if it prevents the plastic from collapsing under impact in the way that it should. It's up to the manufacturer of the A-frame anchorage on the car to provide documentary evidence that pedestrian protection is not compromised by the modification.
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But it's obviously not on many/most/all "toad" cars (covering all angles for any pedants). There's a C1 here that has a cap over each of the 2 rose joints stuck out from the grille and the attachment for the handbrake is quite obvious too.
And even if it was hidden behind plastic, its still there. The plastic isn't going to protect the pedestrian's legs much.
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It interferes with the protection offered by the crumple zone so, in my view, compromises the type approval of the vehicle. That is why we chose to use a trailer to carry our towed car.
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So the ones I have seen driving about with the A-frame in place and held vertical by a bit of string are definately well out of order!
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Hi all, the original topic posed is " towing a car on an "A" frame behind a motorhome"
I've not posted on this club forum before having joined in 2007, but with UK and continental tours with A-Frame or trailer behind our 7m motorhome, feel I can offer my ha'penny worth.
France & The Netherlands - done two 3 week tours to Brittany and down to the Med coast since 2010, plus up to the Dutch polders - no problems having an A-frame, ignored by police. Saw only two A-frames on each trip, one French, one UK tourist like us - they're really very rare on the continent and raise lots of interest from road users.
Belgium - was informed by a breakdown truck mechanic (called out for an engine overheating problem) "Of course you do know sir that A-frames are illegal in Belgium?" Otherwise no problem - as in France - ignored by police. But obviously if you have an accident in such a country, then insurance cover might be refused if what you're driving is actually illegal.
Germany - we'd already read that they're banned there, so for our German trip in 2018 we bought a used Brian James Smart Trailer for 500 quid and had no problems. BUT it takes twice as long to set up the Smart on the trailer compared to our A-frame, what with man-handling the ramps and strapping down all four wheels etc. 15 mins for our A-Frame before towing off, but 30 mins for our trailer. For the Channel crossings we always use Eurotunnel and use our Tesco Clubcard vouchers for the approx £400 return fare (7m motorhome + trailer with Smart loaded) so costs us nothing.
Haven't yet tried as far as Spain but obviously we'll use our trailer if we go there.
p.s. After having a blow-out on the M25 in the Smart many years ago and on the hard shoulder seeing the aerosol puncture repair can gaily stating: "observe speed limit of 20mph" (!) I bought a spare wheel with tyre the same day lol (after being recovered by a breakdown truck, and I store it behind the passenger seat where it JUST fits) .
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p.s. After having a blow-out on the M25 in the Smart many years ago and on the hard shoulder seeing the aerosol puncture repair can gaily stating: "observe speed limit of 20mph" (!) I bought a spare wheel with tyre the same day lol (after being recovered by a breakdown truck, and I store it behind the passenger seat where it JUST fits)
But the Smart has different wheel sizes front and rear, so you'd need two spare wheels if you want to cover all eventualities.
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There are many cars that have staggered wheels front & back. You just need to pick a suitably slim wheel that will fit both front & rear. The spare on my current & previous 3 or 4 tow cars has been different from those fitted to the car - both width & diameter.
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I don't know what point you're trying to make Lutz. The spares I refer to have all been factory fit. I think that most of us realise that a skinny spare or none matcing wheel/tyre is only emergency use until a suitable replacement proper tyre/wheel can be fitted. In the case of cars like the Smart that are only equipped with a can of goo a spare of any kind will be better than leaving the car at the road side or waiting for recovery at silly o'clock in the back of beyond.
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I only wanted to say that with having two different size wheels on the same axle you would be limited to the same speed limit as if you had used the can of goo. That means you wouldn’t really be that much better off with a single emergency spare.
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fwiw ….
Have always felt that ‘getting away with it’ is a common excuse for it being somehow acceptable for breaking the law (s).
Whilst towing, a Caravan, in Europe have preferred to stay feeling I’m within a ll the law(s) to avoid drawing attention and becoming the ‘victim’ of an over zealous Traffic Officer.
2022. I would be very cautious of the legality now of an A frame with a car in tow for Touring.
Each to their own ….M
NB The laws & rules change continually in different member states and old outdated forum information ( like much of the CMC advice above) can be misleading.
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For what it's worth, we used to tow a small car behind our MH for a few years when abroad (not in Spain)
We were stopped by police in Germany and the outfit was checked over and photos taken. They checked the papers we had and took photos of them. We were not charged or warned off about towing it.
In Belgium we were stopped by police and went through the same process, however it wasn't as pleasant as the German check. The elder of the 2 Belgian policemen was rather brusque and rude, we got the feeling he was 'showing off' to the much younger one. We got a warning that if 'he' caught us again he would fine us. He was under the impression that we were on our way home, we weren't but didn't feel like correcting him.
After the last episode we both decided it wasn't worth the hassle of getting stopped, always looking over your shoulder. We were on holiday and didn't need the hassle. We never took it abroad again.
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The position is quite clear. Towing a car with an A-frame is illegal everywhere in the EU. Being treated as a trailer, the A-frame plus car combination needs to have paperwork documenting that it has been type approved as such. However, no-one has ever had such a combination type approved. Manufacturers of A-frames who do claim that they have type approval only have it for the A-frame as a component, but not for the combination with a specific car, making a complete trailer assembly. It would be a bit like AlKo claiming to have type approval for a complete caravan.
If A-frame towing is tolerated abroad, then this purely discretionary on the part of the police. Nowhere can one claim to have any legal entitlement to it.
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