Towbars and Towing Mirrors
Evening all
I'm after more advice please! The motorhome is now officially up for sale, and I collect our new-to-us caravan at the end of the month. My car is due to have a towbar fitted next weekend and the company doing the fitting asked if it was for an Al-ko hitch. I said no, but it has a Winterhoff stabiliser fitted (bpw chassis). They advised I would still need the Al-ko towball. I called the caravan dealer to confirm if this was correct and I'm sure the person I spoke with knew less about towing than me, and I know next to nothing! So eventually we arrived at the Al-ko towball is fine as the fit is standard and if I change the caravan (not something I'm planning given we haven't bought this one yet!) it would probably have an Al-ko next time as that seems to be the current 'standard', so my towbar would be ready. I'm less convinced by that argument than the fact that I think both Al-ko and Winterhoff would require a dry (rather than greased) towball?
So now I'm seeking the guidance of people that actually know what they are talking about (you!) and wonder if you could confirm for me please what I need?
Also, towing mirrors. I used the Milenco Aero mirrors on my towing lesson (not in my car) but found myself only using the wing mirrors because being quite short I had the seat quite a long way forwards, and to look in the towing mirrors I felt like I was having to twist to use them. I'm hoping that once I'm in my own car my driving position will be better suited to the addition of towing mirrors. However, I came across the Milenco Grand Aero 3 (flat) mirrors and wondered if I might find these easier, especially as I'm used to the larger mirrors on the motorhome? So any opinions on the standard Aero 3 versus the Grand Aero 3?
Thanks as always
Daisy2
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hitch stabilisers have to be dry as they have friction pads in the hitch that when the lever is pushed down to the horizontal position the pads grip the ball very tight and help to control a bit of the sway and help stability. mirrors are a personal choice and might be worth trying different combinations at a dealers but they are also a legal requirement. that's the basics but somebody will give more detailed comments.
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The balls made to suit the AlKo hitch have a deeper groove on the underside and will accept the other types of hitch. As you have alread twigged, clean and dry is important so if it is removable take good care of it in storage, or if fixed take even better care of it. A can of spray brake cleaner is a usefull resource.
The Milenco mirrors can be fitted in various ways with the arms below or above the vehicle mirrors, and with the glass horizontal or vertical on its main axis. You will be able to experiment to find the best position to suit your driving position. Remember the legal requirement is to be able to see a particular area alongside and behind your trailer - Milenco supply a diagram. To achieve this does often require the additional mirrors, and they have to be fitted quite far out to achieve the legal view.
The law requires the driver to have a particular view available in terms of construction and use. Whether any given driver uses that view is a different matter of due care and attention.
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Yes as per above with lornalou and Nav, check the fittings on the mirrors as some fit better on some cars than others depending on the shape of your car's mirrors
are you having a fixed or detachable towbar?
Also I assume you have asked for full (twin) electrics and the plug(s) on your car will match the plug(s) on your van? ie one 13 pin plug/socket rather than 2 seven pin plugs/socket. If you have already considered this, which I'm sure you have then sorry just ignore.
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I would however see if you can try some mirrors and strongly suggest you consider the convex mirrors in comparison.
The flat mirrors are totally flat and whilst massive give quite small field of vision. I had to change mine to the convex mirror, which give a much better field of vision and are great mirrors!
Also have a look at the pads and your mirror - the V-pads had much better grip for me on the D4.
(I also mount them before hitching up and then give them a little extra tweak just before setting off, just in case the car mirror has yielded slightly)
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Remove any paint on the tow ball using fine wet and dry. Towing mirrors seem to be all down to personal preference. The newer single 13 pin sockets provide much better electrical contacts than the old twin sockets
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(I also mount them before hitching up and then give them a little extra tweak just before setting off, just in case the car mirror has yielded slightly)
Just a slight tweak mind. It is possible to crack the clamp, especially when very cold, if you tweak too much.☹️
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I'm wary of mirrors that are not flat as to gain the greater field of view they distort the image and can make things seem to be a different distance away than they really are.
A trick with the Milenco mirrors if one has difficulty fitting the brackets is to just leave the brackets in place if taking the mirrors off for a short time. Instead of removing the brackets, slacken the other screw and slide out the rod from the brackets. Remember to tighten the screws back up though if you want to find them still there when refitting the mirrors!
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I have used Millenco Grand Aero convex mirrors for the last 7 years. I prefer convex mirrors for their better field of view. You soon get used to the distorsion, so guageing distances is not really a problem for long especially as you have had a motorhome. You should find the Millenco Grand Aero convex to be pretty similar to motorhome mirrors. I was used to minibus and coach mirrors.
If you do go down the flat mirror route however I would add stick on blind spot mirrors as well (not needed with the convex type).
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I have the smaller aero mirrors (slightly shaped at one end). I bought them after reading reviews, but to be honest, I have been disappointed with them. I have gone back to the Suck-it-and-See mirrors. These fit to the centre of the existing mirror.
The main reason I like them is they are much easier to adjust - you just use the electric wing mirror adjusters. It avoids the problem of 'up a bit, down a bit, to the left, to the right, No back a bit' etc scenario, when trying to get the passenger mirror adjusted while sitting in the drivers seat and getting my wife to do the adjustments!! The Aero mirrors seem to have a will of their own and tend to spring to different positions when trying to adjust them.
I read once that someone complained that the Suck-it-and-See mirrors put stress on the wing mirror itself, but personally I have not experienced this problem. I now use my Aero as a 'just in case' back-up.
I'm positive that others feel differently, but this is just my experience with these mirrors.
David
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I use a Milenco flat mirror on my side & a convex mirror on the passenger side. They always seem to need adjustment though, even when you're sure they were fitted exactly as they were the previous time. Mostly, the view from the normal mirrors is good enough, which is why I've never fancied the suck-it-and-see mirrors, but the extra vision from the Milencos when needed is excellent & (mostly) vibration free.
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Just changed my old Octavia hatch for a newer one, but still mark lll I think. Found the new wing mirrors pose real problems for fitting towing mirrors. (no level sections on rim and massive slope on back rules out strap mirrors). Wondered about economical Maypole screw on mirror but would this crack wing mirror glass?Am told Milenco are safer but which Milenco model? Would Aero lll be OK or does it have to be Aero Platinum 6606? (these seem hard to find and very pricey). Octavia is reputed tow car so I hope members have found a solution to this problem.
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A lot of VAG mirrors are problematic due to sloping profile and limited gap between glass edge and mirror surround.
I used Milenco Aero on VW Touran, Skoda Yeti and Audi A3, latterly with the extra cost optional rubber pads with a V ridge. This helped, but the limited gap continued to cause a problem. Since swapping to EMUK mirrors I have had problems. They are custom made to the profile of your mirrors with a cast aluminium bar that wraps around the mirror body with a small clap over the end of the mirror. They take seconds to fit and are rock solid, but expensive.
You will not find a UK supplier and probably need to use a German supplier through e-bay.
Colin
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Ive been using suck it and see mirrors for years but will struggle with our new towcar unless i can put a step in the tube. Ive seen the EMUK mirrors on the tinternet and they look a very good product but could not find any reference to the E mark that is required for UK use. When you got yours did they come with any 'approvals'
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I've just checked the back of the mirror bodies and they have an E1 logo moulded into them.
I believe I used this company:- https://www.autoteile-herr.de/emuk-wohnwagenspiegel-set-fuer-skoda-octavia-iii-100901.html
Colin
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The vat issue is not a one size fits all. Post Brexit we ordered some boots for our son. They came from Spain, through Holland to the UK. As they were less than the personal import allowance we had no problems. We did not have to pay an extra or different rate of vat.
For more expensive items the situation is different. I contacted the relevant UK government offices regarding a personal import on a caravan. On this I have to pay UK vat. It gets confusing as if coming from the majority of Dutch dealers I would have to pay Dutch vat, then UK vat on import before claiming the Dutch vat back. Two dealers however were set up for UK customers and could provide the relevant paperwork for me not to pay and have to reclaim the Dutch vat.
At present the price difference on a caravan import does not make it worthwhile.
Colin
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cheers Colin,
they dont have stock for xc90 but another website does so will get by on the suck it and see's next week then look again on our return.
Do they clamp very tight on the mirror casing (possible cracking) or are they relying on the precise fit on the casing.
They do look like a good piece of kit.
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The fit of the cast aluminium arm is very precise, also cushioned by a neoprene type foam. The clamp [on mine] pitches firmly around the outmost edge of the mirror body. I do not believe a potential crack would be an issue.
Colin
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Whilst away staying at the Millpond CCC site these past 10 days and browsing tinternet for emuk mirrors reviews etc. a BMW X4 rocks up fitted with these mirrors.
The chap was more than happy to show me how simply and precisely these fit. The BMW recommended them. I imagine the initial setup will take some time but the speed, simplicity and security of fitment will be worth it..
The UK website selling via holland states that the price qouted includes all duties for shipping to the UK..
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Regarding towing mirrors. We have just changed our car to a Volvo XC40. Have bought a set of EMUK towing mirrors from a website called EMUK who are based in Netherlands. I have towed for many years and always had the extension mirror fixed alongside the car wing mirror horizontally, and have got on ok. On the pictures that I’ve seen that come with the mirrors, they seem to fit the mirrors upright and on the end of a long arm. Is there an advantage that I’m missing in having the mirrors upright and right on the end of the arm? It seems unnecessary to have the mirrors sticking out so far and dangerous when parking at a stopover en route to your destination. Before I cut some off the end of the arm, I’d like to know what other people do.
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I like the vertical set-up of the mirror as it gives me a good vertical view down the side of the van including the tyres contact with the road.
Our Eriba is narrow, so I cut about 30mm or so off the arms as they are very long. I could have cut more off but thought about if I bought a "normal" van at a later date.
Colin
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We have recently purchased EMUK mirrors for our XC90 and although expensive very pleased with them. We used suck n see mirrors for over 15 years but the XC90 mirror casings are very deep and left limited adjustment.
I shortened the arms by 90mm and used the mirrors vertically, as EM says you can see your caravan tyres on bends but still wide enough to see way past the caravan. I did a solo drive trying the mirrors horizontally and the 'wide screen' image dident feel right.
Even with the arm shortened i still have room to move them out if we ever have a wider caravan.
I added some thin foam padding to the small clamp face to avoid any paint damage
And in my opinion they also look great..
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I wish ALL caravaners would fit mirrors. Followed a big Volvo estate the other day towing a wide caravan. He couldn't see anything behind him.
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When we sold our caravan to a dealer yesterday another LV user was picking up his caravan.that had been serviced and was unaware that it was illegal to tow without extension. mirrors as he said he can see behind although it was not as good until he fitted them
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Perhaps it’s worth pointing out again that it is not a legal requirement to fit extension mirrors but it is illegal to tow without having the stipulated field of vision. In practice, this nearly always means fitting extra mirrors but the absence of them does not in itself put the driver in breach of the law.
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I want to know why .... when I refit my driver's Milenco mirror it's set just as it was before removal but the passenger side never is. And ... when the passenger mirror is tweaked so I see down the side of the caravan it always seems to then move a little after we've set off
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