Kia EV6 or Sorento plug in hybrid ?
I called at my local Kia Dealership this weekend to look at the new Sorento and its lovely really smooth drive with a mix of EV only and also petrol i did think the 1.6lt petrol would struggle for such a big car but its was more than fine.
I also looked at the EV6 which was also great and very well put together now i didnt test drive this due to me running low on time but i do intend to go back.
my question is my current to car which is a 5 series 20d is a fantastic tow car but its high mileage is of concern now so looking for a suitable replacement and not wanting another diesel i have been looking at alternatives but not sure which way to go EV or Plug in Hybrid.
my caravan is only 1428kg fully laden so both cars are ok at 1600kg for the EV6 and 1800kg for the Sorento.
would love to know your thoughts or even better if anyone has experience with either of these or even if you think i am going mad and should get another diesel ????
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I also visited my local Kia dealer to look at the EV6, mainly out of curiosity and because I definitely will not be replacing my current car with a diesel. I must admit I was impressed but I personally find it hard to justify the price on the mileage that I travel in a car (less than 3000 a year) but I do require a load carrier like the V70 5 door D5 I currently own.
Have you seen Andreww Ditton's >U-Tube videos< about towing with the EV6.
peedee
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Hi Peedee yes i have seen 4 videos he has done which i found interesting and it was his video that brought me to visit my local Kia dealership however i would like to gain what thoughts from others regarding moving to full EV and also Plug in Hybrids, my worry is with the EV could i damage or overheat the batteries or EV motor when towing and with the PHEV`s is a 1.6 lt petrol engine really capable of pulling a caravan when the batteries have died.
i have also come across another one thats shocked me today the Land rover Discovery Sport have a PHEV in the form of a P300e however its a 1.5lt 3 cylinder petrol engine WOW REALLY a 3 cylinder engine can pull 1600kg when the batteries go flat ????????
i guess only time will tell
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I find it difficult to consider a Hybrid for towing. After a very short time the benefit of the extra electric shove will have gone and you are down to towing with the conventional engine that is now penalised by carrying the extra weight of the batteries etc.
I suppose it is down to your mileage split between solo and towing. Ours is about 50-50 as we have a small runaround for local driving.
I believe it was Whatcar that worked out the costs on buying and running a new vehicle for 3/5 years and the Hybrid was the most expensive, then diesel, petrol and finally full electric as the cheapest.
We are 60 and 61 and I think in a few years time we will replace our runaround VW Up with a good specification small electric car that we would probably keep long term. At this time our 1,5 petrol Audi A3 towcar will be 6 years old and by then if range and charging infrastructure has improved I think we will go electric on that vehicle as well, or possibly just the one full electric.
Colin
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Towing with the EV6 will be sublime. I would not worry about the motors over heating anymore than I would any other car rated to tow 1600Kg. Key question - can you charge at home? Second key question, do you expect to tow for more than 2hrs / 130 miles in a single go. I tow with a Polestar 2 EV (range 120-130 towing) and find that he need to recharge coincides nicely with the need for a rest!
I also have a V60 D6 Twin Engine (previous generation V60) which has the same PHEV system as the current set of Volvo 60 and 90 series cars. Mine has the 212hp 5 cylinder diesel with a 78hp electric rear motor and an 11kWh battery good for about 20 to 25 miles solo electric only range.
In my experience towing with the V60 car, just sticking it in hybrid default mode at letting it get on with the job worked absolutely fine. Trying to outthink the hybrid system beyond selecting one of the 5 drive modes (hybrid default), pure (electric only), power (optimise for performance), AWD (optimise for traction), Save( keep the battery for later - e.g. driving to a city to use electric only in the built up area)) for what you generally needed is pointless. It towed our Bailey unicorn Vigo S3 (MTPLM 1550) with out any bother at all. Actually a better tow car than the XC90 (D5 185hp) in everything except space and seat count. And the 2nd best tow-car I have had. The best being the full Electric Polestar 2 which outshines the V60 for everything except max towed load (not a problem), space (also not a problem) and range (also not a problem).
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Thank you for that i do see what you are saying and i think i have read one of your posts regarding towing with the Polster 2 which i have also considered.
if i am honest i am just very nervous about going full EV even though on paper its a winning formula if you can live within the parameters that comes with an EV which i believe i can.
The problem for me i think is i am not usually this early to the party in the respect of buying something that is still in the early stages ie: i carnt say i have seen one EV on any caravan site or even towing on the roads i have been on, along with the other fact the the Kia EV6 is also brand new out so no demons have come to light yet.
The EV6 GT line rear wheel drive seems good value at £46000 compared to the Sorento 3 PHEV AWD at £51000
I have considered sticking with my BMW 5 Series for a while longer but not sure about the millage that's now sitting the wrong side of 100k at 105000 that said she owes me nothing and returns good mpg both solo and towing and its only £30 road tax its been by far the best tow car i have ever owned so i want to make sure my next is equally as good.
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Being cautious is right - its a lot of money however you look at it for an EV OR a PHEV. Really you need to look hard at your use case as a whole. Whats your annual mileage? What is you towing annual mileage? Can you home charge (do you have off road parking, is your house on a looped supply)? Do you have (or can you get) a smart meter for a low cost tariff? Do you like the car ??? (thats quite a big one?). What does an average week of driving look like? How far do you normally tow? Do you use off grid CLs (no car charging) or bigger sites with hookup? Do you like to tour (one or two nites at each stop) or stay put for a week? Do you like to drive 600 miles to the south of France or north of Scotland towing in one go?
There are lots of questions to consider - but 1st and foremost - get a test drive in an EV6 (and maybe even a Polestar 2 single motor long range, and Hyundai Ioniq 5). See how you feel about an electric car. Polestar do 48 hour test drives. You can also get one from the EV centre in Milton Keynes if you are close.
Also - ask about lead times - they are long (for any car) and factor that in too.
Don't be put off by the idea of electric (it seems you are not or you would not have got this far). But do look at the pros and cons.
BTW- if you cant home charge - a PHEV is not for you. It's even more important for PHEV than for EV. They ONLY work to save money if you charge them fully before every journey. Even then, they only save money if you do a good number of journeys inside their electric range. Otherwise, it's just an underpowered extra heavy petrol car. Volvo PHEV are a bit different to most PHEV in having a fairly potent combustion engine as well as the electric, but you really pay for that privilege.
Keep asking questions and the answers will come!
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As someone who is on their second PHEV I am better placed than most to comment on their merits. It is true that without a home charger ANY PHEV or EV is pointless. After a Volvo with a real world PHEV range barely two thirds the theoretical distance I personally wouldn’t touch Volvo. We spent a lot of time investigating a range of new PHEV options last summer with a cost ceiling of £45k. From research the KiaHyundai options have a short real world range and lack features such as battery conditioning (heating/cooling) and use too much of the battery capacity leaving too small buffer. That buffer is important both for longevity of battery life but also back up power still available when required. Long story short we went for a RAV4 PHEV. Combined power exceeding 300 horses and over 180 horses in ICE mode from the manufacturer who has built more and sold hybrids longer than anyone else. The real world EV mode distance is 35-45 miles from a theoretical 47. And if you want to read about the pitfalls of going EV to tow just read the letter in April edition of Diesel and Eco car from a caravaner who went to EV and immediately back to diesel after one trip.
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@FC Do you have a link to that article from Diesel and Eco car? I would love to know what issues the driver ran into. Having towed over 1600 miles in my EV last season, it definitely can work. Charging on route is not simple, is definitely a two person job, and comes with the issues associated with any EV and public charging as well as a few of its own. But for me as an individual its definitely worth it. I do about 15k miles a year, perhaps 2k towing. The 13K solo and actual towing part of towing (as opposed to the public charging with a caravan part) makes up for the deficiencies and then some (for me).
@winni1974 If you have not seen it, have a look at my pinned post at the top of this section (Tow Cars and Towing) of CT, on towing with an EV. It's a long post but will give you an idea of what a longish (258 miles one way) tow with an EV is like.
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Yes i have seen some cars are over a year from date of order, i think on the EV6 it depends on model and spec i was going for the EV6 GT Line rear wheel drive and was told August / September this year if i order in April so not too bad however Polestar 2 have stopped taking orders...
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yes i would also like to read what they had to say and what issues they came across that's made them turn back to a diesel, i guess i am going to after buy the magazine though
I did read your Very Long Post and found it quite informative obviously everyone's journeys are going to be different and the various routes we take with flat roads and hills will make them all different but its definitely given me a good idea of what i could expect.
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I don't have any specific knowledge of the Kia but before you purchase any PHEV for towing, double and triple check a tow bar can be fitted to the vehicle. I'm currently stuck with a Peugeot 3008 Hybrid, which is perfectly capable of towing my caravan but I cannot get a tow bar fitted due to the placement of the batteries in the boot.
I'm currently looking for a seasonal spot for my caravan and somebody else to take it there
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Thats not great for you at all hope you get sorted soon, if i was ordering a PHEV it was one of three which were Kia Sorento , Toyota Rav 4 or the Ford Kuga all of which can be ordered with a factory fit tow bar some deployable some detachable so i am covered there and i am sure the EV6 comes as factory fit too but would need to check.
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Indeed - and keep that in mind. Each and every journey is different. One terrible outing (or one successful one) does not prove a case either way.
I had an awful journey up to the lakes towing the caravan in the XC90 one year. Some MDF fell off an open transit tipper on the M1 just before the A50 Junction. There was no avoiding it with a truck on the inside and cars on the outside, so we went over it. As we got onto the A50, the engine lost power and died, fortunately as I passed a refuge under J1. The MDF had hit the diesel filter and sheared its mount off. We were recovered by Mayday / Greenflag to Derby, where they managed to get a part same day, and got us on our way - 7 hours later!
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There you go.
We tow around circa 5000 miles in a normal season and this year have planned trips including 450 miles each way to Inverness, 350 each way to Cornwall and about 1,000 each way to Austria. Next year we are planning CZ Republic with the caravan, a country which has about 80 charging points….. The Inverness trip we will do in a single days haul with an anticipated 200 ish miles between 5 minute refills (the tank is only 10gals) that do not require the caravan detaching. it will be a long time before EV works for me but each to their own.
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I'm not sure why Ross Baker was that surprised that the range of the leccy eTron was halved with a caravan on the back, my diseasal ML350 isn't far off that. I can eek it out to 35/36mpg if I drive it carefully on a run on the motorway but with my large caravan on the back it's 21/22mpg
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As ED says, the drop in range is fully to be expected. The problem Mr Baker had was believing the salesman. However, I think he does have valid concerns. Whenever we stop with in an MSA (with EV or pre-EV) we would never leave it completely unattended, and carry that strategy forward. Having dedicated EV + Caravan charging bays would be ideal, but I am under no illusion that EV + Caravan is way off the priority list at the moment, so un-hithcing is what we have.
And Flatcoat - I agree with you - for 5K towed miles a year, an EV is not yet ready for what you do, especially if you are doing > 340/350 miles in a day. On our 258 mile trip to the lakes we could have done one more charge and an extra 90 miles but, it makes for a long day. Having said that, years ago ,after our first 8 hour tow from South Northants to Bamburgh, and then 8 more hours to Kyle the next day, I vowed never to tow for that long in one day again.
In the article - I agree with Ian, the editor, that there is lots to be done, and I think he takes a positive stance. I would be very interested to hear if he gets any feedback from the charging operators.
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ok so taking all the points made since i started this post i have made a list of my typical year
- solo driving 6000 miles about 4000 of them are just around town driving
- towing driving about 2000 miles most weekend rips are 75 miles each way 1 long trip 380 miles each way
- i can have a charging box on the side of the house so can charge on my driveway
i average 44mpg solo driving on a mix of roads and can easily get 56mpg on a run and with the caravan on the back i average around 32 mpg which is 1448 fully laden.
looking at what i have learned from peoples experience which does vary depending on distance they want to travel which in turn will dictate how many stops will need to be made for charging i was swaying more towards a PHEV mainly because of my 4000 miles of town driving which is never over 40mph however my gut feeling is telling me to buy another diesel and wait a few more years to see how our EV charging infostructure grows and if caravaners are given dedicated charge points in motorway services, i would imagine that over that time we may see better range when towing as the technology develops.
it would also be interesting to see how these EV cars fair when they are 5 / 6 years old with say 60k of miles on and any effect on the EVmotors after towing caravans after 10k or more i am sure this will all be fine but its not yet a proven,
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As a comparison experiment, I thought I would put together a quick spreadsheet to figure out the fuel costs on EV vs PHEV (petrol) vs Diesel just see how they each fair. Of course this is just the fuel costs. You have to figure in capital, VED, servicing, depreciation etc. But it gives a rough idea based on the mileage and MPG from above. Take it with a very large pinch of salt!
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Good to have real numbers Oscarmax - I assume that is pre-energy crisis numbers? (i.e. 5p/kwh Go, or 20p/kwh normal rate, and more like 130p/l unleaded?
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Thank you for that its very helpful C T
i thought i would keep looking before making my mind up on what to buy next so i went for a 2hour test drive in a Ford Kuga PHEV it was a top spec model and the sales guy had fully charged it for me, i after say this drove beautifully so quite and smooth the ev side on things works really well and as plenty of pull don’t get me wrong its not a Tesla but still pulls very well at first i had it in EV only and then changed it to HEV so it could call on the 2.5 litre petrol engine if it need it which it did kick in a couple of times throughout the 50 miles we drove however when it does you don’t know unless you look at the display its really seamless when it cuts in and out.
also the mpg was a real eye opener so when we set off we had 35miles of ev only range however when we returned back to the dealership we still had 9 miles left and we had driven 32m miles of EV only miles and the rest petrol so we did actually gain some EV miles and the total drive resulted in an average MPG of 156mpg wow that’s amazing.
i was really taken back by how good the Kuga PHEV was but still I don’t know what it would be like as a tow car however it does give me more confidence than i had originally thought. We hope to test drive the Kia EV6 next so will see how that fairs against the Kuga PHEV.
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Hi all so just a quick update, i test drove the EV6 yesterday and oh Wow what a car its absolutely stunning the interior is up there with some of the best in this class and higher class imho and the drive is beautiful i couldn't believe how good it was i mean seriously good the power comes in three different modes Eco , Normal and Sport now Eco is really good for around town as you can pull away very smoothly and not gain to much on the car in front and with the regen braking you hardly use the brake pedal, the Normal mode is good for everything else with plenty of power on tap when you need it however the sport should be labelled lunatic mode i mean this is crazy fast
so all in all the car is fantastic and the build quality is too with an amazing amount of kit on all models, i test drove the GT Line S model but would probably go for the GT Line as i dont really need all the extra kit. The only issue we had with the car is the size of the boot now i dont mean its small for this size car but we have a German Shepard and because the boot is sloped we are unsure if its big enough for her to stand and move around a little so will be returning with the dog to see what shes like in there.whilst we was there the sales guy introduced us to a Sportage 1.6 T GDi auto GT Line S FHEV and again this was well kitted out with everything you could ever want in a car and some, the big gain for us here was the boot size which is as much more room for the dog and is now also a serious contender for our next car however the only issue we have here is that will that 1.6 petrol engine be enough to tow a 1500kg caravan when the batteries are flat ?????????? yes it can tow 1650kg but how would that 1.6 petrol engine cope with lugging the caravan where as the EV6 feels like it could pull a train but i do realise this will reduce my range from 300 to 120 towing
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Unfortunately I am a very sad person I have kept a very detailed Excel spreadsheet from when we picked up the PHEV 22 months ago, it includes the current fuel prices.
We are still on the Octopus Go fixed tariff until 03/03/2023 5p off peak/13.72 peak and 25p a day rate. I am considering in the near future a Tesla battery bank, Octopus tesla has a fixed 12p kW rate for both import and export ?
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this was my first choice when i first looked at changing my car last which was placed on hold due to a family bereavement, i had the self charging hybrid on test drive and i thought is was great although a couple of things did bother me such as the fixed rear seat most others slide forward and backwards and the backs tilt no such joy with the Rav 4 and the infotainment system is not great either and feels very dated compared to its rivals that said i drove really well and the MPG i got was also good although again unlike the Kia it would stay in EV for long and seem to spend more time in Hev mode where as the Kia spent more time in EV mode and on my test run the trip showed better MPG.
Like i said back then i really liked it and the new Kia wasn't out then so i did do some research into the car as i couldn't find any towing reviews with the hybrid they were all the older diesel model, i did find a guy whilst on a dog walk that had one with the tow bar system fitted so knocked on his door and asked him for his thoughts i wasn't quite taken back when he said shocking Toyota have proper screwed a perfectly good car
he had only used it to tow a 1400kg car twice and he said both times the engine screamed for help as soon as he entered any hills, on the flat it was fine but any incline it was very loud in the cabin and on his last trip out his 140 mile round trip averaged a shocking 19mpg.At that time he was looking to either change the car or stop caravanning and sell up.
it wasn't long after this we had our family bereavement so i never looked any further unit recently and still couldn't find any towing reviews for the Rav 4 so ruled it out
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So after lots more test drives and also great advice whilst at Blackshaw moor club site of Easter i have ruled out the following
- Toyota Rav4 FHEV loved the test drive but dealership have 3 customer all with towing issues and advised me against
- Ford Kuga FHEV advised by an owner who tows a trailer tent not to bother its fine on the flat but rubbish on the hills
- BMW X3 30e again great test drive and advised its fantastic solo and towing but very expensive and out of my budget
so i have my final three cars that i have test drove and loved all three and all three are very different
- Kia EV6 absolutely stunning car inside and out and drives beautiful its not cheap but it is great value compared to others in this class just not sure about 110 max towing miles
- Kia Sportage FHEV awd in GT LINE S spec again a great car with more kit than you ca believe drives great although not as good as the EV6 but for just short of 40k with 7 years warranty is hard to find better value.
- Land Rover Discovery Sport D200 yes i know its a diesel but its around the same cost to buy as the other two and its a great car inside and out compared to the EV6 it will go all the way to Cornwall without stopping once although solo its more expensive to run and compared to the Sportage well that's a bit of an unknown with a 1.6 petrol engine which is why i looked at the Disco Sport with its 2.0 Diesel i know for sure i will be good on any hills when towing.
when looking at it from a cost point the Kia Sportage FHEV is better as its short of 40k so you pay the normal road tax and the running cost are low compared to the discovery thats just over 40K so an extra £355 a year road tax on top of normal plus higher running cost.
the EV6 is obviously the winner on running costs with no road tax and cheaper charging costs than petrol or diesel but feel the range will stress me out especially when towing.
i think i have given myself an headache
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