Payload - How much do you actually carry?
Hi Folks
We are changing our caravan, and prior to taking our existing van to the dealership early for a mover swap I obviously emptied everything out of our current van. This is all the 'stuff' we keep in the van permanently - pots & pans, plates, cutlery, TV, small tool box, awning steel pegs, kettle, toaster and all similar bits and pieces.
As I removed everything I decided to weigh each box of removed 'bits'.
I got a shock! Total weight was 98Kg!
I have a payload on my (current) van of 142Kg, so with the above this leaves me with 44Kg for food and clothing. I bet our fridge food will swallow 20Kg of that alone. My wife will require the rest of the payload (and some) which leaves absolutely nothing for me! And I am ignoring the fact that we have a motor mover fitted!
The above did not include the weight of mains lead, step, gas cylinders or anything that might be accounted for in the ex works weight. It also didn't include water and waste containers, any bedding or outside lounger chairs!
Now, I am fussy on this and try to keep things to a minimum for weight considerations, and I know that when I see others on site and what they carry in their vans mine is positively empty!
Needless to say, I will be reviewing what goes in the new van, but wondered what others do to keep inside their payload - or don't you!
Changing van is like moving house in that its a good opportunity to have a clear out!
Mark
Note: Current van MRO is 1408Kg and MTPLM is 1550Kg.
Comments
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My Coachman has a pay load of 159kg ....(MiRO 1706kg - MTPLM 1865kg) but there are twin movers on it. It wouldn't surprise me if we were over weight after EmilysMum has loaded what she does in just about every bit of cupboard space. 🤐
just tried to be lazy & get weights from the Interweb. This Coachman 620/4 appears to be a different weight from ours 🙄 or ... the reporter/journalist copied his weighs wrong. He certainly can't add up/take away.
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Yes, that's misleading! I suspect they got the 9 and 5 the wrong way around!
Wonder why caravan manufacturers include so many cupboards, its just asking for more stuff to be put in them! I think two for kitchen use, 1 for 'other', 3 for lady clothes and 1 small one for man clothes. And then if they could fall off the wall with too much weight in them we could all stay within our payload!
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Our current caravan has a very small pay load, just enough for essential items.
Clothes, pots and pans, cutlery, bedding, towels, toiletries, TV and the food in the fridge.
Hence we have a big towcar that carries everything else, bikes, food box, tool box, portable satellite dish (if abroad) OH box of bits and pieces, box of bike stuff like hats, gloves, spare tubes, repair kit etc. 2 x lounge chairs, small folding table, Oh and my travelling washing machine 😊
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Our 2008 T/A supposedly started out at 1532 kg, mover and various bits will have taken it to 1600kg, so we should have 300kg left.
However, as an older van, that has to cover gas and battery, so I allow up to 70kg for that plus the wastemaster, pipes, and the bits and pieces in the front locker.
We reckon, having once weighed it fully loaded and found it slightly heavy, that it must have started out a good bit over 1532, but did not weigh it empty.
Since that weighing, we no longer have a Fiamma in the awning rail (15kg), I now carry my tools in the car, and as no longer going abroad, we do not carry quite as much with us, so I reckon we are now a bit below the 1900kg.
Porch awning, Aquaroll, outside tables and chairs, coolbox, and anything heavy always goes in the car.
We recently reloaded after a service, I weighed all the inside stuff as we put it in, not including clothes and food, and that was just over 100kg, so I am happy with that.
The excellent payload we have is one of the main reasons we have not changed the van.
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We have since starting 30+ years ago always weighed the "caravan" stuff, that stays permanently in it, before loading any new to us caravan then weigh normal load of clothes and food. To my knowledge we have always managed to keep within the weights.
This current caravan had an upgrade so we now have 209kgs to play with. Even with loading 2 e-bikes into it we still have 30 kgs or so spare.
We did take our previous Lunar Stellar to a weigh bridge when we got it and was surprised to find that the actual weight empty was less than that quoted by Lunar! We now understand why it disintegrated when we hit a significant pothole.
ps Just as matter of balance I normally take more clothes than Mrs WN.
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Interesting point re the weight plate upgrade.
My current caravan we purchased with the weight plate upgrade as we also had air conditioning fitted at the factory. The standard van has 142Kg payload, and ours with this plate upgrade also still only has 142Kg, but they have increased the MRO weight!
I expected the MRO to stay the same but the payload to increase, although accept that the air con would take half of the upgrade, if that makes sense!
So the standard van is MRO 1368Kg with MTPLM of 1510Kg, and with upgrade, ours is MRO 1408Kg with MTPLM 1550Kg, thus both give 142Kg payload.
Mark
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I carry a sheet with all weights on it in the van, have done for as long as I have had a caravan. I soon decided to do this when we started trailer tenting and were amazed and saddened to see what folk pull out of there vans.
Our Eriba in basic form is 840kg, but ex works with mover and extras registers 965kg.
After taking into account:- BS EN 1646-2 “Leisure accommodation vehicles for caravans' includes full gas and water - “This has been equated to 30 kg”, our van stands at 935kg. My MTPLM is 1200kg so I have a healthy 265kg for the two of us.
We used to run a VW Touran, which after deducting driver and passenger gave us another 510kg. Oh those were the days.
It is a favourite axe of mine to grind as all you have to do is look at the vans rolling up at reception and how low they sit. It is truly frightening that caravan manufacturers continue to produce vans with such pathetic and dangerously low payloads. Many owners do not have a clue and if they see a space will think it safe to fill.
Colin
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My caravan has payload of 209kgs. I put the heavy stuff (awning, cables, books etc) in the car when towing so although I have never weighed the stuff we load pretty sure I am well within the payload.
Can someone enlighten me. When a caravan has a plate upgrade is anything actually done to the suspension or is it the manufacturer stating that the suspension can take a heavier load than initially stated.
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The plate will show two big numbers. The top one of these is the MTPLM, whilst I believe the second is your max axle load. This second number could in fact be higher as the manufacturer may have bought in a generic chassis closest to there needs.
If the upgrade you have asked for falls within this upper limit and the chassis-body combination you have has been officially tested at some time to this higher figure then an upgrade can happen and no work is required. You should get a new plate with the first figure adjusted accordingly. This plate might be next to the door but in some cases could be in the gas locker.
I'm making these comments based on the situation I had with Hymer some years ago, and a system they still operate.
Colin
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Interested since we are getting our new Silver Mini Freestyle 290 on Sunday and need to kit it out! MIRO 688kg, MTPLM 1000kg, but we don't intend to use up all of that payload. New car, Suzuki Vitara 1.4 petrol auto, manual says up to 10kg noseweight is fine, the higher the better, but max is 75kg. So in theory we might aim for about 825kg fully loaded, 9% would be just under 75kg. Or 800kg, 9% would give us 72kg noseweight. Depends what kind of balance we can achieve and what noseweight we get empty, since the van overall is quite light but there is a battery and will be a 6kg calor gas at the nose end. Since nobody else around here has one of these it is hard to get advice, but I have found a friendly German forum with some owners who have been very helpful. But they do suggest the battery and gas can make it quite heavy nose end which needs balancing out, which obviously we don't want to do from the rear.
We have bought quite a bit of stuff already, but have gone for as lightweight and compact as feasible and I have been making a spreadsheet of weights as I have been buying things, with one column for the car and the other for the caravan. When we had an Eriba years ago, like Colin, I did the same and it was really handy.
I am hoping to use the boot for heavy things and possibly put the Cinch pop up awning at 8kg and the lightweight Isabella shadow onto the rear car seats, strapped in with seatbelts. Also hoping to get some waterproof seat covers for the rear car seat for protection if they are wet.
I have 2 Really Useful boxes that should go in the boot with heavy things like electric hook up stuff, water drain/hose stuff, tool kit, pegs etc. I think the chairs and table might sit on top of those in the boot, altogether 2 chairs and a table in total are about 10kg.
But once the van arrives on Sunday we will start playing around. There is not a huge amount of space in there, but it does have a door to access underbed storage on one side which I am hoping chairs and table could move to on arrival at site.
I have a small plastic box that I have put some lightweight crockery/cutlery in which I am hoping will fit somewhere. We have various plastic lidded boxes of different sizes after clearing out our garage so we are hoping some will fit in cupboards so we can tow with them near the axel and move to allocated cupboards when we get on site.
Bedding is the main thing, just hoping most will fit under bed, but with 2 of us we could store some under the table at the end where we won't be sitting. And food/wine needs a space! We do drink bottles, but also buy 250ml cans of a decent wine we like when we feel light a midweek drink, so we will bring some of those as they are lighter than glass.
We are quite happy to take very few clothes and are very used to travelling light. For the 7 summers prior to Covid we did a 3 week middle-aged backpacking trip every summer. We only ever brought one small 5kg backpack each for the whole trip and washed our clothes in hotel sinks regularly. We went to China 3 times, Spain twice, Vietnam and Cambodia once and Norway once. So even being able to bring more than 3 sets of underwear will be amazing!
Very excited though, this is a new adventure. Just took some photos, apart from clothes and bedding, this is a lot of it on the landing, waiting for the caravan to arrive! Hoping much of this will go in the car though.
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And here are the chairs, 3kg each, pack up really small. Could not edit last post to add the photos. Hope we are not going to have too much stuff! But I was thinking, when we had the Eriba Troll and a Mondeo (with my ex), we had 2 young kids as well and all the stuff that they come with. And I used to have an online shop and sometimes I used to bring 2 of those big Really Useful boxes full of stock, packaging materials and a printer for invoices when we went away in the UK, so I could send out orders. So in comparison this lot seems compact. Of course the car and van are smaller, but there will only be 2 of us.
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There are some simple ways of increasing the effective payload that we use. Namely: the hook cable (the weight of which is included in the MIRO) always goes in the car; permanently remove carpets; always drain water when travelling; and we have removed the freestanding table to be replaced with a lightweight table. Those alone equate to circa 25kg which offsets the leisure battery or mover. In our case the weight upgrade added another 25kg so we’re still left with a 156kg payload. Not massive (our previous van had around 300kg’s) but enough if careful without being parsimonious. In addition we are careful with specifications for pots, pans etc to ensure weight is minimal and avoid food or drink in glass bottles as much as possible (glass is very heavy). When travelling coats go in the car as does the awning, tools, chairs, awning pegs and a few odds and ends.
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I think that is pretty much as it is!
When we ordered our van I had the upgraded plate (additional 40Kg) because I also had air con fitted (extra 33Kg I think) plus a solar panel (11Kg) and I wanted to try and stay within the MTPLM.
I did think that I would see the additional weight capacity reflected in the payload, but they also increased the MRO by the same amount thus I am back at the 142Kg.
What I don't know is if they increased the MRO by the 40Kg because of the 'extras' or if this is something they automatically do?
Main thing is I got an extra 40Kg!
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Some interesting views on this - thanks!
When we pick up the new van tomorrow I will give more consideration to weight distribution, and perhaps load the car a bit more going forward!
I wonder, if they installed a weight bridge at reception of sites and measured each caravan as it arrived how many would actually be within their MTPLM - not many I should think!
Mark
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Strangest thing we ever saw being unloaded from a caravan was in Sweden.......a large wooden rabbit hutch, including the 2 rabbits!
They also unloaded a large table, 6 chairs, 2 bicycles, and a BBQ.
We have one pretty rigid rule on loading......if it will be used in the van, it travels inside the van, if not, it goes in the car. The exception is the Wastemaster, which travels in the front locker. Everything in the van is packed in its proper place, clothes in top lockers and wardrobe, dishes in top lockers, pots and cutlery lower down, and most of the rest under the bed.
Like others, we remove things we do not use. In our previous van it was the swing up upper bunk, in this one, when only the two of us, we do not take the (very heavy) table with us. We do however have water in the Alde HW system, and a couple of litres in the toilet flush.
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We have a user payload of around 211kg. The motor mover weighs around 35kg; the Thule wind-out canopy weighs around 33kg; the battery weighs around 25kg. We carry minimum clothes, kitchenware, towels and bedding in the caravan. Virtually everything else goes in the car (a very small amount of food; cadac; EHU lead; anything to do with water/ waste water (incl containers etc); outside table & chairs; groundsheet: tools; rotary washing line; other things etc. (Don't usually put sides on the canopy to make an enclosed awning - we leave those at home.)
I reckon we are under the 211kg, judging by the last time I weighed the caravan at a weighbridge, but it doesn't leave a lot of 'weight space'.
Fortunately, we have a largish car, and there are only 2 of us and a small dog. It actually works well carrying all 'outside stuff' in the car. We travel with hardly anything underneath our beds in the caravan... We do shopping for food when we arrive at the site.
The user payload on many vans is really poor, in my opinion.
David
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After taking our previous Barcelona to the weigh-bridge with nothing in it other than the essentials (aquaroll, wastemaster, plates, pots and pans etc) - no clothes and no food - and found that it was 20kg overweight already. It illustrated to me how unrealistic most UK van's payload are.
Although it wasn't the prime reason for changing, the sensible payload of 365kg in our current Knaus was a major consideration. OK - so I've got an AWD motor mover, electric towel rail and E&P to allow for but on the plus side I've taken out the very heavy table - replacing it with a lightweight one and changed the steel gas bottles for Safefills. All the really heavy kit (EHU lead, BBQ, Alko locks, toolbag, awning, wine
etc), travel in the car. The Touareg is more than capable of dealing with that.Although it wouldn't make any difference to the legality, I also have the peace of mind that the axles, although plated at 1000kg each (according the van plate), actually have a weight limit stamped on them of just over 1300kg.
I don't get so worried now when Ros is heading for the van with armfulls of clothes to deposit in the huge wardrobe that just has to be filled 'just in case'!
I have to say, I also get concerned when I see what comes out of some vans - awnings and bikes included.
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As you say, for us it was a simple request and a 50kg upgrade sticker arrived.
We manage to avoid overloading the van through a quite simple method-it’s in storage 20 miles away so no “let’s just stick it in the van” temptation!
There is some tinned food in the van, a gaslight in the locker and crockery etc but everything else, awning, fridge, clothing, sat dish etc, etc, all goes in the car.
This does mean that the car is pretty full so when taking the grandkids we use a roof box-for luggage, not the grandkids!
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The caravan would have to be physically modified to increase the payload beyond what the existing suspension allows. In most cases, however, nothing is physically done and the MTPLM only brought into line with the maximum permissible axle load or with the maximum MTPLM that the caravan manufacturer has had type approved for that particular model, whichever is the lower. Sometimes it requires tyres with a higher load rating, though.
On the other hand one could replace the whole chassis with a heavier duty one but that would involve subsequent individual type approval of the thus modified caravan.
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Thinking back to my caravan, I had a payload of 230Kg. Given the amount of "essential kit" that has to come out of that, I would venture to suggest that any van with less than 200Kg is not fit for purpose.
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“Although it wouldn't make any difference to the legality, I also have the peace of mind that the axles, although plated at 1000kg each (according the van plate), actually have a weight limit stamped on them of just over 1300kg.“
What is on the van plate takes precedence over anything stamped on the axles.
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The above did not include the weight of mains lead, step, gas cylinders or anything that might be accounted for in the ex works weight....
Err sorry to burst your bubble, but the MIRO might not even include those items. It is the mass as left the factory, so probably not be included (Check your handbook), ah these items are known as the Essential Habitation Equipment Payload, and comes out of the user payload. I took my Elddis Avante 540 down to the local Weigh bridge last week with only a battery and motor mover fitted )no gas bottle). The van weighed in at 1380Kg where as the MIRO is 1347Kg.
Now trying to get the 13 year old van uprated by Hymer Group, Had a few issues with that too but i'm still hoping it will happen
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Best of luck with the upgrade. I know of a fellow Eriba owner who eventually gave up on the Hymer route to his axle upgrade and went to Alko Service centre in Kotz, Germany, just this side of Munich. Story as follows:-
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A few years ago, I weighed my 1000kg rated Troll before we set off on a trip only to find it weighed 1100Kg, Since then, It has always been on my mind to rectify matters with an upgrade to a 1200Kg axle, an option at the time the van was new (2002). I approached Hymer who said this was possible and something they could sanction, as long as I got Alko parts to do the job. I tried without success with Western Towing, my Engineer’s local Alko dealer and finally, with particular lack of success, Alko UK. The latter proving impossible to speak to. I then contacted Alko head office in Germany, asking if they could help. They were more than happy to accommodate my request and there then followed a period of playing piggy in the middle between Hymer and Alko, making sure everyone involved had the permissions etc they needed (me included) Finally, I was in a position where I had written sanction from Hymer with the new Vin plate showing the 1200Kg axle rating and an appointment at the Alko Service centre in Kotz, Germany, just this side of Munich.
The journey from Cambridge took three days (I will post a mini trip report separately about that as there are parts of that story others may find helpful) until I arrived at the Alko works on a Sunday afternoon. Across the road from the works is a car park where there are hook ups (but no water or other sanitary offerings) for people awaiting their work to be done the next morning.
I was asked to attend reception at 7:45 to check in on the Monday and by 8:00am, the van was unhitched standing in front of one of the 8 bays where work was carried out (it was reminiscent of a large ‘tyre and exhaust’ place, though much neater and shinier).
By 8:15 the van was up in the air on a lift and the axle removed. I was expecting to be there all day but by 9:15, the refurbished and uprated axle was being refitted to the van. I have a suspicion the chap had done it before.
I had also opted for a brake overhaul, thinking a complete strip down and examination by someone who does this everyday, would be no bad thing for a 20 year old van. As it turns out, the brakes were in good order, a testament to the care the previous (original from new) owners had bestowed on the van, and the skills of my chap over the past 5 years. They did change the Bowden cables though.
The whole job was completed in 3 hours (I really was expecting all day) and by the time I had completed the paperwork and paid up, the Troll was waiting for me in the car park and another van had taken its place.
And for those of you who don't know, this is what the inside of my axle will look like...
The following observations are all subjective:
1. The van rides much better now, with seemingly a ‘softer’ suspension set up that allows it to ‘ride’ bumps easier. I would imagine the rubbers that were
replaced had hardened over time.
2. The van sits higher. Foolishly, I had failed to take any measurements before the work was done, so cannot confirm this, other than it seems to sit higher
to my eye, also agreed by a pal who I sent a photo to taken on a level metalled surface.
3. There was no insistence that I change to 5 stud wheels from the 4 stud fitted. Both Hymer and Alko rather ‘fudged’ the issue. What I do know is that
from weight measurements taken after the work was completed, the van weighed in excess of 1000Kg with my minimal packing for my ‘there and back’
trip. I can only assume that considerably higher loadings have been carried in the van many times with no ill effect. The existing wheels were already
fitted with tyres rated in total above 1200Kg with sufficient ‘excess’ capacity.
4. Finally, and this is not subjective, regardless of the effort and expense incurred, I am happy in the position of knowing that the load I would normally
carry on a trip for two persons is now being carried in a greater degree of safety.The costs for the work and associated clearance and new vin plate were as follows:
1. Clearance and Vin plate from Hymer - €200
2. Axle, removal, refurbishment and refit by ALko - €445
3. Brake overhaul - €200
4. Bowden cables - €45
Total - €890do think the refurbishment of the axle and replacement of the older rubbers might be worth considering by those with older vans, but perhaps as something that is undertaken as part of a trip to the region. Presumably, if the axle was refurbished to the original spec, Hymer would not need to be involved and there would be a further cost saving over my outlay.
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Hope this is of some use- Colin
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I collected a new Eriba Feeling 425 a couple of months ago. Weights are:-
Basic van without any extras fitted = 1010kg
With factory, dealer and self fit extras = 1135kg
Ready to roll with basic clothes, fridge and awnings but no bikes = 1310kg
Max van weight = 1500kg, so 190kg to spare.
Colin
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Aside from payload matters, I watched a gentleman on a nearby pitch loading stuff in the gas bottle locker on his caravan the other day. Just about everything went in it. I did wonder what the nose weight might have been, he didn’t check before hooking up and getting on the road though. The front wheels of the tow car were still on the ground, so I assumed everything was OK.
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