Bristol site
Comments
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Hi everyone,
The SoS was due to issue his decision regarding our appeal on or before 09 February 2022.
On 09 February 2022 we received a letter from the Department for Levelling-Up, Housing & Communities saying that the SoS was unable to make his decision and that he would now do so on or before 09 March 2022.
The new lease over Baltic Wharf is about to be completed and will expire on 31 May 2022. There is a break clause whereby the Landlord can break the lease upon four weeks' notice to take effect anytime after 31 March 2022.
We will keep you updated with any news.
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One of the major objections to the new site was the flood risk. I wondered if anyone living in and around Bristol can confirm if the bad weather coupled with and exceptionally high tide did in fact cause the land for the new site to actually flood? If the site has not flooded in some of the worse conditions it rather puts doubt on the creditability of those experts who expressed concerns about the safety of the site?
David
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I don’t know, but I think the risk is only present if high tides coincide with the River Avon in flood which I doubt it is.
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Even if it has flooded, I don’t see why that should be such a negative factor. It will only be once in a blue moon. Such as these high winds causing a storm surge. Although as SB says past problems have been when the Avon was also in flood. The club has clearly demonstrated they can safely manage sites with intermittent flood risks. The proposed new site would be exactly the same as York or Tewkesbury, the likely hood of flooding would be forecast well in advance and the site could be put on notice and evacuate if required. Unless a weekend nearby sites could accommodate. If there is a flood risk I would assume the club would already have proposed building the facilities block on a raised platform and 1.8 metre EHU posts.
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Worked in Bristol for 13yrs and crossed the Cumberland Basin 5 or 6 days per week. I don’t recall ever seeing the area for the proposed site flooded.
There was occasionally some minor flooding to the road around Avon Crescent which is a few yards from the existing Baltic Wharf site.
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After I visited the location of the proposed new site last July, I did some fairly extensive research online. Unfortunately, I did not keep the various items of interest that I found.
My sense when I visited was that it was lower lying than Baltic Wharf. But, in fact, scrutiny of an elevation map proved this was not so and that the elevation of both sites was roughly the same.
But it is clear that there have been several times when there have been floods in Bristol and as recently as March 2020. There were significant floods in 1959 and 1968 as well and, no doubt, before that. However, I do not know if the location of the new site was affected by any of these. I found many pictures of various floods and one of the 2020 flood clearly shows extensive surface water close to the new site (you can easily tell this from the location of the suspension bridge and other landmarks in the picture), but whether it reached as far as the new site I cannot say. Flood risk maps do clearly include the area of the new site. I attach a map below and the location of the new site is shown with the red dot.
Moreover the point surely is that it now seems pretty certain that flooding of this type is going to occur more often. Whilst not necessarily in Bristol, there has been plenty of evidence of this so far. In my view the environmental experts are likely to have a great deal more credibility that either you or I and there is no doubt there is real concern about this. One thing I found in my previous research was a council report stating that incidents of flooding were likely to increase, but equally that a strategy to protect at risk areas was being planned.
I do not wish to give the impression that I am against the new site. Instead I am dispassionate. I think there are some real negatives, which I have expressed elsewhere, quite aside from any flood risk, which would not be a great concern to me personally, but equally there are some positives. People must realise, however, that it is a long way from the city and the attractions and it will be very, very different to Baltic Wharf. No doubt much, much better in terms of the site itself, but nothing like BW in terms of position and closeness to the tourist attractions. My point would be, why is it so important to have a site in Bristol. There are plenty of cities without a site that might gain more from a site near at hand.
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Graydjames said:-
My point would be, why is it so important to have a site in Bristol. There are plenty of cities without a site that might gain more from a site near at hand.
I think the starting point is that Bristol, because of Baltic Wharf, has an existing campsite with proven demand. In the same way that Rowntree Park in York and Abbey Wood in London are considered. For me it would be really good if there were similar sites so close to all major cities but, unlike in Europe, we don't seem to have that tradition with only a handful of cities in the same situation as Bristol. Whilst I am sure it would have cost an arm and a leg I am disappointed that the Club did not buy the freehold of the Baltic Wharf site years ago, if indeed they ever had the chance? Unfortunately the ever increasing demand to build on any spare land within town and city boundaries has now put paid the that possibility, not only in Bristol but elsewhere as well. 15/20 years ago it may have been possible. The old Police Horse Training Centre whilst probably not ideal is a better proposition than having no site in or near Bristol. I understand there are bus routes reasonably nearby?
What has annoyed me about the new site is that whilst the Bristol Councillors approved the planning application it was the Council Officers that objected and caused the decision to go for further review with the possibility it could be rejected by the S of S, from which I would imagine it would be a difficult scheme to resurrect? Who ever was representing the Club was well able to destroy most of the arguments put forward for rejecting the application so it will be interesting to see what side the S of S comes down on. If it is rejected it is difficult to see what the site could be used for other than temporary parking?
David
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There are other city/town sites that are leased by the club(there are not many sites the club own)that are sitting on very valuable building land with leases that are nearing renewal
With LA under increasing pressures allow residential properties to be built, how many more will be like Baltic Wharf
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People must realise, however, that it is a long way from the city and the attractions and it will be very, very different to Baltic Wharf. No doubt much, much better in terms of the site itself, but nothing like BW in terms of position and closeness to the tourist attractions.
Whilst it can in no way be compared to the location of Baltic Wharf, it isn’t that much further out, and the floating harbour and city centre is a relatively easy walk. Although I personally wouldn’t want to do it after dark. However for those times and those who are unable / don’t want to walk, a half hourly bus service from close to the entrance, takes you to the city centre or the Broadmead shops in 10 minutes or so. For access to Ashton Court, the Avon path, Leigh Woods, Clifton suspension bridge and Downs, it is better located than Baltic Wharf. Although further out of town than BW, I think it has a lot more to offer than a site several miles away with a half hour bus ride in.
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Hi everyone,
I've spoken to the sites team who have advised we will know the outcome of the inquiry on or before 23 March.
The new lease for Baltic Wharf completed on Friday on the basis set out in the previous update.
I hope this helps and once I know more I will share with you.
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I wouldn't think objecting to the planning application is the best move
It looks inevitable that Baltic Wharf will be sold for building land so best to try and replace it with an alternative
I agree it may not be as well positioned but surely it is better than something outside of the city
I e-mailed the council last year to show my support for the new site to be allowed I did get a response from them following the initial meeting
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I assume as you mention Baltic Wharf you mean the application to develop that land? I suspect that ship has already sailed as there were major objections at the time it was announced that the Council were going to develop the site, initially for a school. At least they made the sensible decision not to go ahead with that!!! Councils are under a lot of pressure to build housing within city limits so as much as we would like the opposite to be true I imagine housing trumps a campsite in the Councils eyes?
Fingers crossed for the 23rd March. Like others not as ideal as Baltic Wharf but if planning is granted for the new site at least we get a site reasonably near the centre.
David
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Here is the article in the Bristol press::
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/minister-overturns-caravan-club-move-6822335
Is the Club going to appeal or will it now sell the site?
peedee
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Yes just read this on FB. It is not the fact of flooding, it was put down to "Potential Loss Of Life"
Its a shame once a site is lost,it lost. I just wonder how they Police and all the horses,were allowed to use it given the report from S of S.
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Without seeing the complete documentation from the S of S its difficult to form an opinion. It seems from the report in the link that no account has been taken of the vast experience the Club has of evacuating campsites due to flooding. Is there any evidence that the land in question has ever flooded? I suppose the Club have to decide whether an appeal would likely change the situation? It does beg the question as to what that land could be used for if a campsite which can be evacuated, probably within an hour, is not suitable use? Perhaps the Club should hold onto the land to see what happens.
David
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Not just the police horses, an adjoining children's nursery, Bedminster Cricket club and overspill parking for the nearby football stadium. I think the nursery may have closed but there are plans afoot to re-open the Portishead railway line just behind the proposed site. Has that been stopped I wonder?
Personally I think the site isn't in a particularly good spot and was hoping an area of Ashton Court could have been used successfully, however that would have been leasehold.
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Bristol is a city with international appeal and deserves better than a poky little triangular campsite wedged between a busy road and a railway line - and certainly should have something more than a campsite limited to members of just one British club. Nor does it need flocks of caravans and motorhomes coming anywhere near the city centre.
Let’s hope the local authority will link up with a developer to create a campsite of international standard linked to public transport on the outskirts of the city. But I doubt if they have the vision.
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The local authority has not shown any appetite for that sort of thinking thus far so it probably won't happen. At least the CMC have tried, we don't yet know whether they have completely failed because it will depend on whether, if the outcome is as we suspect, is challenged.
David
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