CAMpRA and the National Trust
Comments
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Personally I would like to think the NT use my contributions for mountains and coastline. However, we don’t get to choose, some of it may well end up being used for the construction / maintenance of CL’s, they are part of the property. To provide something more or less for nothing to non members, whilst charging members, on whom they depend for a guaranteed supply of funds £38, is just wrong.
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I fear that the NT have misunderstood the requirement. Notwithstanding the few CLs they currently run at an, IMHO, exorbitant price, the request from CampRA was for the opening of their car-parks for an overnight stop for a nominal fee. Provision of a tap and possibly a black waste sluice should hardly stretch their resources which could be located adjacent to the existing toilets. Do these even need to be provided just fort a one-nighter? With, I suspect, a significant proportion of caravanners/motorhomers already members, the thinking would appear to be "we could be on a nice little earner here, lads."
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I have to agree, they've completely missed the brief...
more spaces, cheap spaces, minimal (even none) facs, make use of unused car parks for overnighting.
Not £38-£50 CLs found and booked via the CC website with link to NT page (is there another way to get to that page?)...so, any kickback for CC as it's CC members only?
any funds heading their way in this 'partnership' is siphoning of funds that should be keeping cost (of cheap spaces) to a minimum, not providing gravy for both organisations.
no truck with paying NT sub for what it does and for what we get from it but this is so far away from the 'headline'....lost opportunity to lead the way.
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Clearly the NT have thought beyond the basic provision of providing an overnight stay in their car parks. They would be more interested in encouraging people to not only to stay but also visit the attraction. The easiest way to achieve that is to combine the cost of both together. The flaw in that argument is when someone wants to stay a second night which then does make it very expensive. So perhaps a discount for the second night on the understanding that the unit left by 10.00am the next day is the answer?
David
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Why do motorhomers feel that the NT should go to the expense of providing water taps and black waste disposal for them - plus the cost of emptying the septic tank and commercial garbage collection too - and then allow them to have overnight parking at merely a nominal fee?
Why do motorhomers who spend so much on the chosen vehicles then expect that overnight spaces will be provided cheaply - just for them?
Why can’t motorhomers stay at a campsite and drive to their chosen NT site?
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The flaw in the argument is that it costs members a min of £38 a night (likely to be much more with kids/dogs) for a glorified car park space, where non members get entry included...👎
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Why, why, why?.....it'll be 'Delilah' next....😉
Campra are trying to introduce a system to allow safe cheap parking for the rapid expansion of the motorhome fraternity...NT have joined consultations, so must be receptive to 'the idea' but have come up with something totally different.
if the NT wants to encourage new membership, why not limit to NT (and CC?) members only with discounted membership to non members who try and then buy....
this would leave members paying only the 'traditional' rate for the CL.
I know you love campsites, all over Europe but MH generally don't need a site as they are self contained, including motorisation...
I don't need a site, unless I'm using the site as part of the 'experience' as we do on long term stays....
to call in and visit a NT property, i am happy to park overnight in the car park, provided it's agreed with NT at a favourable rate...that's not £38+
if NT didn't want to assist the Campra brief, why get involved beyond an opening discussion where the intention would be made known?
perhaps, NT membership could be extended to allow the already free daytime parking to overnighting, for a fee...a further incentive for those CC (but not NT) members to join.
as mentioned, no one needs to have a service provision (but would be nice) just somewhere to park (as part of membership) for an additional modest fee... extra income for NT, too.
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We could stop at a campsite and drive to Stourhead, there is plenty of parking. It wouldn’t cost us a penny as we are NT Members. Similarly with many other NT properties. Alternatively for a reasonable fee we could stop overnight. I’m not really bothered wether car park or CL extension, but I would prefer the minimal services of water, waste and CDP. In France we paid 22€ to park outside an ancient monument with those provisions. There was no shortage of takers. A fixed fee of £20 with no access to the property would seem fair to both parties.
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I so agree with you, Euro.
I get a bit fed up with hearing the want, want, want put forward by some MH-ers as if they are special people.
My view is that we take what's on offer or go elsewhere. Why would the NT, or any other body, want to provide cheap overnight parking when they can charge a hefty sum? They might be a charity but not a charity for LV users.
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I don’t think the NT understands the concept of a MH overnight park up, that’s all. Drive in, find a safe space, go to sleep. Breakfast and up and off next morning. No emptying or filling, no leaving litter, that’s done elsewhere on a Site. We have done exactly this for £2 per night, happy to do same for £10 per night in forestry car car parks up in Northumberland.
Cragside would be an ideal NT overnight park up. £5 to park overnight in huge car park, no access to rest of property. Get up, then “do” Cragside, either on a Membership card, or pay non Member rate.🤷♀️ Move on, Alnwick Castle Car Park, repeat. Find a Site or CL, do the chores next day, day on the beach, overnight rate in big car park at Bamburgh, look around Castle, on to another Site or CL. And so on...... We could do it illegally if we wanted, we know enough quiet out of the way places in Northumberland to enable us to tour for next to nothing. But we don’t, because we don’t want lumping with the tiny minority that don’t show enough care and consideration to the local environment and communities. Happy to pay something for just a safe bit of legalised space, and abide by the rules. But not happy to be exploited.
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Am I? I don't think so. Euro's post and mine are more about attitude than NT specific. This NT discussion is just one example of the points we made.
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Perhaps as ET and TW haven't used the wonderful aires system in Europe, where providers (local communities) and customers (MHs) share a win, win arrangement, they are missing the point...
the surge in van ownership, along with the constrained travel for those who usually go abroad, has meant an over demand for pitches/spaces, in fact impacting on those Club members in 'getting a pitch'...
with the ratio of Campervans/MHs getting ever higher, then perhaps it is time to focus attention a bit more on the needs of those rather than exclusively pushing sites...(a far more expensive form of provision).
a few more vans on (existing) lesser facs 'areas' at an appropriate fee, would relieve the bottleneck currently being experienced at regular sites everywhere.
some organisations are beginning to understand the differences and helping to build that extra provision...
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Nope, not missing the point at all. I don’t care what superbly wonderful systems you enjoy overthere - this about the UK and, specifically, the NT.
I've stated my view and, unlike some, see no point in repeating myself ad infinitum.
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TW said.
Am I? I don't think so. Euro's post and mine are more about attitude than NT specific. This NT discussion is just one example of the points we made.
Nope, not missing the point at all. I don’t care what superbly wonderful systems you enjoy overthere - this about the UK and, specifically, the NT.
You can’t have it both ways TW. Is it, or is it not about the NT. Whatever, one in escapable fact is that a non member couple visiting Stourhead only pay £2 for a nights stay including EHU.
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Whilst I agree that the NT shouldn't provide those facilities for a nominal fee they do in the case being discussed seem to have come up with a strange charging system. Whilst not a member of the NT I could understand members not being happy with the price charged for the reasons explained by Steve. Whilst staying just one night as a non member is not bad value but as soon as you stay two the price becomes excessive which would put me off. It would seem fairer to charge (as they used to) £20 a night and then non members would pay the entry fee but members would get in free. At £20 a night across their network of suitable properties they would soon recover the small investment needed to supply water, drainage and chemical disposal. Even EHU could be optional? Some might think that because the car parks are already there and with no facilities what so ever a modest fee might be more appropriate so when talking about cost per night we have to be sure what people are expecting, perhaps £10 a night with no facilities but £20 with? Also don't forget if, as in the case of Stourhead, it is a CL so can be used by both caravans and motorhomes.
I suggested a while back in a thread about the shrinking number of CL's that the Club should engage with the likes of the NT and EH to suggest they set up CL's but it seems another organisation has taken the initiative which might be good for motorhomers might not be so good for caravanners? The demographic of campers is changing and so is their expectations on the provision of where they camp. Better it is organised than not.
David
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What about those of us with caravans? These ridiculous prices will affect us too.
Although this thread is mainly about NT providing (or not) MH stopovers in carparks, it seems, at least at Stourhead and Kingston Lacey, it is CLs that are being discussed? Are the prices at all their CLs going to be the same?
As NTS members we would be interested in staying at NT and NTS CLs when visiting a property, but not at £38 per night! Especially as we would likely wish to stay 3 or 4 nights to explore the area. Up to £20 is fine for EHU and hard stand, we do not need other than basic provision otherwise.
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I suspect that the combination of Covid, and to a lesser degree Brexit, has created a perfect storm across all types of campsite provision. A captive market, desperate for something to look forward to, and wanting to get back out into the countryside and attractions? Kerrching, and up the prices will go across all types of Sites, from big commercials, to Clubs, to tiny little 5 van provision. We have also stayed on four CLs this year where alternative accommodation is in place as well, camping pods and shepherds huts. Camping and touring is big business at the moment.
This year has seen a lot of the “real” prices semi hidden, with the big reduction in VAT. But reality will bite next year. In fairness, the DG did mention at the AGM that the Club are working with other holiday accommodation providers to try and get the VAT rate reduced. But I have just had a browse at one or two CLs who use the CL Booking App, and there are one of two already giving a next year price £3 above this year. Some of our past favourites have gone up hugely these last two years, one has doubled in price. Nothing added, a nice location though. I noticed one or two CLs have a sliding scale of charges as well. Expensive to stay one or two nights, but longer stays rewarded with a better rate. So something more favourable for caravan owners, other than the one night stopovers.0 -
Anyone with National Trust membership can come down here in the spring and visit Cotehele, Antony, Buckland Abbey and Lanhydrock without paying anything more for entry. They can stay on a very pleasant, medium sized, campsite centrally placed within those four - the going rates are £15 for grass pitch without electricity, £18 for grass pitch with electricity, and £20 for hard standing pitch with electricity. Toilets, showers and dishwashing are included. Those prices don’t go up in summer.
Some will jump at it, but some will say, “But we would have to pay a non refundable deposit, pay more for heating the awning, and pay in full two weeks in advance”. That’s true.
Sensible site owners in my opinion.
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Buckland Abbey is one with a reasonable HS overspill car park that would facilitate overnighting. Pay at Abbey number plate noted, gate closed when car park does, operative does a check before opening in the morning that everyone has paid. If they stuck in a tap, grey and black waste, I would happily pay £20 for a night.
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.....meanwhile, there is a decent site just up the road if anyone wants to stay in that area.
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And would the Trust let caravans stay overnight in their car parks too? I seriously doubt it. Why do motorhomers imagine special provision should be made just for them?
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ET’s suggestion might work well for a caravan, and in the Spring before the big traffic hits the area. Lots of hobbit days, (there and back again.) It’s how we used to see some of the NT properties when we based ourselves and van in Fowey area.
However......SW in the Summer is a driving nightmare now. So we took to splitting our locations with our caravan, so that we could visit NT properties in the North and in the South of this big long county. Again worked well for us.
With the MH? Cotehele and onto a CL nearby. Up and on to Lanhydrock, CL nearby. Up early, possibly Trerice, or head on down to Marazion Club Site. Couple of days there to see Mick’s Mount and Trengwainton. Then off round to Falmouth area to see Trebah (no dogs in Glendurgan😉) CL overnight. Up and off to Fowey area, take in an NT beach or two, stop at CL in Fowey. Up and off, across Tamar, Buckland Abbey, use Britstop at Lydford. And then onwards............ No steps retraced, choice of CLs, other stop off options and prices.
I just imagine how much easier and nicer this could be if Cotehele, Lanhydrock, Trebah, Buckland Abbey offered a park up option only overnight. We would of course be doing our chores on the sites at Marazion and Fowey, so no need for facilities elsewhere.
We hopped from NT and HHA houses and gardens right down from home to Marazion and back in September, hardly driving over the same roads. It’s easily doable via CLs, cheaper Club Sites, etc.. no deposits, only thing we had booked up front was Marazion, because it was a booking carried over from 2020 for a big event in Penzance we attended. Other stops were confirmed without any fuss or deposits a couple of days ahead, on the road.
Linear touring suits us at the moment, hopping from place to place.
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Closing the gate is not foolproof as I'm sure you realise, Steve, and it couldn't be locked without a means of emergency exit/entrance so I could understand any reticence on the part of the NT.
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A similar situation occurs at the moment. National Trust Sites that have room are open to MH’s using the car park to visit the property. I’m not certain they would be so keen on caravans, although you see some at Clumber Park, where parking is not as regimented.
If the provision was made, I would expect it to be at no cost to the NT over time and actually make money once the initial investment had been paid for. I’m not sure why you see a MH that has been parked for nothing during the day, paying £20 to stop overnight when everyone else has left, as a bad thing. Other than that they may not permit the same for caravans of course.0 -
I doubt it too ET, but then I doubt many with caravans would possibly want to stay. Most tuggers want to get to a site, drop the accommodation off, and then start the holiday. It’s more likely they will be staying for a few nights in an area, rather than linear touring. That’s why you see the queues at Club Sites at or before arrival times. We did actually take our van on the back to a few big houses and gardens sometimes, but getting in isn’t always as easy towing as it is driving in with an MH. We have, many moons ago actually overnighted in our van in a couple of EH car parks, with permission I add. But a very long time ago, and remote properties.
The NT provides campsites that exclude MHs and caravans (small camper vans are ok) but it’s mainly down to the locations. No way would you get a van into Lansallos campsite, we know, we have looked. Many NT properties would be a challenge for larger MHs as well as caravans. So I don’t see it as a van v MH situation, more how each tour slightly differently.
It would be nice if the NT joined something like Britstops or Campra, but it won’t alter how we tour with MH much anyway, as even in a touring boom period, with half the UK determined to tour SW, we managed with very little bother to do as we usually do. All legally, all at a price we thought great value.
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I’m sure we can all think of potential problems TW. However, I don’t think any are insurmountable. I doubt they leave the gate unlocked on a night at the moment, so there would at have to be provision for emergency entry. Personally I think they would get enough takers at circa £20 to make it worth there while.
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