CAMpRA and the National Trust
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ET, there's just no need to provide any facilities at all....we aren't ever going to replicate the aires system of Europe...just getting a new tranche of sites that provide cheap overnighting is a huge step for the UK.
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And in that case where will you go to get drinking water, empty waste, garbage and sewage? The Club won’t let you “pop in” to one of their sites.
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At the prices being bandied about, it would seem that the NT don't really want to do this. As an NT member I certainly wouldn't expect to pay more than £10 for a night in a car park. ISTM that they haven't looked at pricing structures for similar facilities were they do exist.
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There will be places...and some will be developed with facilities in the form of 'formal aires' but my point was that not every new 'overnighting' area needs to consider these facilities.
I don't see users being on a site like that for weeks on end, merely for a night (or two) here and there as part of a longer tour which would include stops at 'proper sites' where tanks can be refreshed, washing sorted etc...
I see folk dipping in to any new type of facility to provide convenient stops (overnight parking) when required, not as 'destinations' or a one type all the time set up.
yes, in Europe, with their vast resource of aires, one could easily tour for weeks on aires of varying simplicity and cost, most of which will have facilities, but not always every stopping place...
..but we will never get remotely close to this type of touring, the desire isn't there by those who could make it happen.
as I said, any tiny improvement over what we already have is great.
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We have just been on a meet up weekend with several friends including a couple who travel from Ayr each year, they stay in a holiday home on the site, ,that we and two other couples stay on the camping area,
They were in part jest.? Speaking about the amount of rubbish and efluent that is getting left in some areas where they tend to travel to , by the Camping fraternity as they call us,
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I obviously visit the wrong (right?) type of places as, in 11 years of bumbling round Europe, I've never seen 'effluent' where it shouldn't be nor a member of the 'camping fraternity' putting it where it shouldn't go...
..but then we've only used full fat sites, THS, CL/CS, the odd rally, Commercial sites, wild camping, aires, continental sites etc....perhaps we need to get out more?
one of my bugbears is that, where there are stopping and parking places, why are the bins never emptied often enough...surely popular spots (often with limited bins) need faster emptying turnover or more bins?
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Bins?🤔, or folk could hold onto their rubbish until somewhere to dispose of it safely can be found. It isn’t about a particular section of travellers it’s about attitude & being socially responsible whatever the country👍🏻
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You never went free camping to Piemanson beach at the bottom of the Camargue then ? Dig a hole in the dunes and empty your toilet in the hole was the general practice. The French authorities closed it down in the end for hygiene reasons, just as the Portuguese authorities are closing down free camping in natura zones across their country too.
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Yes, I've got no issue with taking stuff home and recycling or disposing, just felt that the siring of bins strategically and then never emptying them seemed a bit of a waste of effort...
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It was while we were in that area we observed multiple walk ins to the camping car park Air we were on at Port Saint Louis du Rhone. The Air held about 100 and there were 3 of us on it. Vans pulled up at the barrier used the bins, walked in with their cassette and drove off, presumably to stop for nothing elsewhere. I suppose at least they were dumping responsibly, however at others cost. There is even the option of paying a reduced fee if you only want to dump and fill.
Oops just noticed this is in the UK section so a bit Off topic.😀
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Steve, not too OT as we are discussing overnighting on new sites/parking areas....
The concept of being able to dump/fill at a point where stopping isn't allowed (services-only aires) is certainly one that many on here won't be familiar with.
often (usually) the bone fide 'aires' have parking AND services...
but, even then, there are many that have parking but NO services.
with the majority of aires being free, pulling in to overnight or just refill/empty is all part of the 'service' and shouldn't be seen as unusual or sponging in any way.
then there are the chargeable aires where folk are unlikely to try and use 'part' of the service (waste/water) as they have to pay for all of it...
but regular campsites also get in on the act...some allowing the use of the service point, usually outside the camp gates or close to reception, by passing traffic for a small fee...€2 or so.
...but some even go further and have a fully developed, separate aire just outside the site, pitches sold at a good bit less than those on the site but with access to services and facilities granted to aire users...
when folk try and compare a new UK initiative to the long standing aires network across Europe, they are comparing something that's part of the touring vanning fabric with the use of a car park or two...but even a couple is progress.
however, I wonder how many uk council officials considering the use of their car parking space for overnighting have ever been to check what makes a good aire and how they operate?
Precious few, I'd wager, and certainly not anyone from NT judging by some of the info in this thread.
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I haven't got a 'suggestion' thanks..unless you mean councillors visiting France?
i was just adding to Steve's point and the contrast between a system that's been evolving over many years and what's been discussed here.
im under no illusion that things will move far very quickly, despite the simple solutions (use of spare space via overnight marked spaces) being the best and cheapest to implement.
sometimes, all it needs is the removal of the 'no overnighting' text on the car park rules board...
some car parks already have 'no charge' outside certain hours, so cars can be left there overnight for free...you can do it in a MH (if no height barriers, no specific exclusions etc) provided you don't sleep in it!
no problem with a special 'overnight sleep' rate (say) £5 even if you are next to a car that's there all night for nothing.
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PeeDee, any links? Thanks.
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I would guess many of the recently available chargeable O/N parking spaces, including the Nat Trust’s Lake District recent trial, are as a result of illegal O/N parking in popular areas by the increased usage of M’homes and Campervans due to Covid related staycations. Unfortunately, Scotland is not the only area in the UK where illegal overnighting happens though it does seem to get the most coverage.
Aires in Wales - tricky auto’s post is an illustration of that area’s solution to what they see as a problem – hope it works for them.
This is what I found if it works https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/new-aires-approved-gwynedd-tackle-22116266
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BB It was mention on their Facebook page, a search of "125" brings up a link to >this list< I think those on Search for Sites, (total 50) are those with approved waste dump points.
peedee
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Thanks, yes the link I used had the 50 you mention. Is there a 'map' format available for the whole 125? As they are not 'accredited by Campra' will they not appear on Searchforsites?
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They can say what they want about access being a perk, however the £8 additional cost per adult, £4 child on a CL with no facilities block, is clearly largely designed to cover access to the garden. It might not be possible to offer a discount just to one group, CAMC members who also happen to be NT members. However, I wouldn’t have though there would be an issue with NT members getting a voucher to spend in the shop, cafe or farm shop.
Anyway from our point of view, whilst I am prepared to pay over the odds for location and might just consider £30. Adding on an additional £8 for the OH, is just rubbing salt in the wound.
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It would be interesting what sites run by other bodies they have been comparing. Even Clumber Park, where there is free access into the NT section, that those driving in have to pay for, only charges £35.60 for two on a service pitch, when it reopens next September.
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I don’t either, but it might be a bit like during lockdown, when you had to make a booking to visit a property. Because of there charitable status, they couldn’t discriminate between members and non members, giving one preference over the other. That’s why I suggested the voucher, it might get round any such issue.
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