Booking ahead is unfair at some sites
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At the end of the day whatever system the club introduce some members will like and some members won't. If you don't like it you can walk with your feet but most members won't - They'll just whinge about it on here. I've used the fact that i don't have to pay a deposit to my advantage, particularly on a "honeypot" site.. I've not broken any rules.
We all know there are too many people chasing too few pitches.
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It might be within the rules but is it within the 'spirit' of club membership?
I've recently booked up for next April and again for June. I have had to pay a deposit of £40 for one week in April and 50% for a two week stay in June. I'm not complaining as my holidays will seem that much cheaper come the time.
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I'm sorry but what has "the spirit of club membership" got to do with it?
I'm all in favour of deposits and have said, on more than one occasion that, if and when they are introduced, it may affect how I book sites.
I've openly admitted what I've done and wait for other members to admit the same. And, it's only one site in one particular month. Yes I have multiple visits to that site arranged but, apart from November 2022, when two of the three weekends I've booked will probably be cancelled, all of the other visits will take place.
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We have booked several "honeypot" sites for next year, as part of some tours that we hope to be able to do,, if there was a deposit system in place we may well have curtailed what we hope to do especially if the T&C are as draconian as a few seem to want
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Yes it will make me think of when and where I book
It certainly would. We stopped on the C&CC Malvern site in September, for us £8 a night cheaper than the CAMC site next door. So a no brainier, as we could also book surface type. Even for someone without age related discount where the price is very similar, paying for two nights up front would count against the likelihood of booking with this club. In September that would have cost £50 as against a £25 deposit with the C&CC.
If they want to drive members away who tour, often only stopping for two nights, it’s as good a way of doing it as any.
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I have booked three separate UK CAMC sites for the months of May, June and July in 2022, just in case there are circumstances that may stop me from taking the caravan into mainland Europe during that period. Before the pandemic it wasn't thought necessary but I'm playing safe and within the terms at the moment.
If things go as planned then I'll cancel the CAMC sites, if a small deposit was asked for then I would still pay it and be prepared to lose it.
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And that's a choice we all have. When there are two sites close to each other, both broadly similar in quality, it's a no brainer to choose the cheaper one, particularly where you can choose the pitch type. However, the size of deposit wouldn't be a factor if I wanted to visit a particular site or area where there wasn't a choice of sites.
I can't see that members would be driven away if they had to pay the pitch fees in full or pay a sizeable deposit, unless it's because they drive a motorhome rather than a caravan. I suppose members with motorhomes are more likely to change their plans or itinerary than someone with a caravan.
We don't tour. Our two week break in the summer will only be spent on two sites at the most, More usually, we set down roots for the whole time.
Deposits also spread the costs of the holiday or break. I really don't see what the aversion to deposits is.
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Nellie, what usually happens is 'compromise'...it's unlikely that (in any situation) an off the shelf system will do everything exactly as a business requires.
after all, They're coming from a position of years of bespoke system tailoring...
So, some current functionality might need to be dropped or changed to work in a different way, with conversions to move from old to new..again, all std decision making for the top brass to balance the perceived robustness and simplicity of support of the new system, against the current reasons for considering changing....difficulty of support, creaking older system, loss of in house expertise, risk to the business etc, etc...
a company like TUI (or any major cruise/holiday type company) will be booking, cancelling, amending orders for customers who have bought a pitch (cabin, hotel room, plane seat etc)....it's not that different....
packages from companies like SAP have been underpinning many diverse businesses who all are 'unique' (have USP) but buy, sell, deliver products, run accounts etc like all businesses do....
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It might be within the rules but is it within the 'spirit' of club membership?
Tend to agree, it’s the equivalent of towels on sun loungers. Just because folks are honest about it doesn’t make it any less selfish.
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Members seem to think this is their club and run for them. it isn't. It's in business to make a profit and, whilst that profit isn't paid to highly paid executives or to shareholders, it needs to be run as a business.
Having written that mbee, I’m not sure why your so set on deposits. Is the club likely to sell any more pitches than they do now, or even before the pandemic. If they are so hard nosed, why should they worry about speculative booking, as long as they sell the pitches in the end. I personally don’t think they are loosing very much due to no shows / late cancellations, even when the weather is poor.
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The Club already operates its Experience Freedom network via payment up front, certainly for the more expensive accommodation. I haven’t checked out what refunds, cancellation charges might operate, but suspect they advise taking out holiday insurance.
(Cant believe that we can be mentioning “holiday insurance” etc... to pitch up somewhere in UK for a few nights away. World’s gone mad🤪)
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I can't see that members would be driven away if they had to pay the pitch fees in full or pay a sizeable deposit, unless it's because they drive a motorhome rather than a caravan. I suppose members with motorhomes are more likely to change their plans or itinerary than someone with a caravan.
Our tour in September / October used 14 CAMC sites all booked the end of June. I don’t think I will be doing that if your figure of at least £50 deposit was brought in. £700 worth of deposits, no thanks we would definitely look elsewhere. There are plenty of MH’s on sites that only stop for a few days, could the CAMC risk alienating a not insignificant section of the membership.
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Take Chatsworth as an example. We had 9 nights there at the end of October (generally half term week and the second week of the Nottinghamshire half term as we get two weeks). As everyone knows Chatsworth is always full according to the website apart from an odd night here and there.
I'd have a walk out about 10.30 pm to take the dog for a last walk and it was never full. On a couple of nights there were 3 super pitches empty - something almost unheard of, in addition to standard pitches. and this was during half term. On one night I counted 6 empty pitches! This is unheard of at this site!
Empty pitches at a site like Chatsworth I suspect is down to no shows rather than cancellations. Deposits, as long as they're meaningful, would stop that.
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It might well work for Chatsworth and some other honeypots, as enough folk want to go there and if you want to be on top of Chatsworth house or York, there really isn’t a lot of choice. However, it’s rather a sledgehammer to crack a nut at most other sites. Folk will just look elsewhere.
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The booking system as I have found is quite suspect at site level did you query with the site staff. I know I would have,
There are not just no shows that can mean empty pitches. Did the site have a problem? :
As later in the season sites close some pitches as the staffing levels are also reduced
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It's the "looking elsewhere" bit i don't understand. If you go to a commercial site or C&CC you would have to pay a deposit and either take the booking or lose the deposit. What's the difference if or, possibly, when the CAMC introduce deposits?
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Right from the very start of the all the murmurs about deposits, I have thought the Club is going to please more of its Caravan owning Members. Don’t think this is intentional, just merely that caravans tend to stay longer in one location. It’s certainly how we use our caravan rather than our MH. If you use your MH for longer stays, then of course, no difference. But it’s rare we do this. We have a good few MH and campervan owning family and friends who aren’t Members because the Club doesn’t provide what they need, deposits will be a further barrier.
We can tour when we want, being as spontaneous as we like. All we shall do is just hoover up the odd unbooked night/nights on Club Sites at short notice, going elsewhere if they are full.1 -
We all ways intend to take up the pitches we have booked by as some on here know my OH is not in the best of health so we may have to alter some bookings
As we are of the age, that some on here post ,who are the core older menbers ,havind pitches booked is far less stressful than trying to book at later dates when it seems others complain that they cannot
This year we had to curtail part of a tour we booked last year as some venues were cancelled
and as afew it seems would like non returnable deposits it would have meant we would have lost deposits' on five bookings
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(Cant believe that we can be mentioning “holiday insurance” etc... to pitch up somewhere in UK for a few nights away. World’s gone mad🤪)
TDA..Unless you are referring only to club sites....that is what is recommended, and has been for quite some time, by most commercial sites when you book....some even offer their own package...on average £10-15 per stay.
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No problem with the site. All the pitches are hardstanding and, apart from a coupe of years ago when much of that area was flooded and the site was evacuated, I've never known them close any of the pitches.
If you've ever been or tried to get a pitch you will know how difficult it is especially at weekends and school holidays. It's unusual for the site not to be full (or showing as full) and that was the reason for the OP's query. As I said in my previous post, for there to be 6 pitches free on two nights and it never be full on all the 9 nights we were there, is unheard of.
Yes the weather wasn't great which is possibly a reason some people didn't go but that does stop other members booking unless they hold out for a possible cancellation if they're able to go at the last minute.
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We use quite a few cc sites each year m and there does not seem to be many motor caravan only doing a couple of night stays m as now we are out numbered by motor caravans here,(good transport links and shortish walk into town)and non have moved off site since we arrived
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Currently the C&CC charge £25 deposit. Plus we get age related discount much of the year, saving around £8 a night. You were talking about a deposit of at least £50. At the moment this club is our go to choice of the two. If the deposit is £25 that is unlikely to change, although as we have to pay a deposit anyway, if two sites were in the same area the C&CC would probably win out if age related discount was available. If the deposit is double the C&CC my bookings will reduce dramatically.
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"and as afew it seems would like non returnable deposits it would have meant we would have lost deposits' on five bookings"
JVB that's a choice you make. Using club sites where you know you currently don't have to pay a deposit is using the system to your advantage just like I book some weekends that i know I may not use. There really isn't much of a difference. If it was run on a proper commercial footing you would have to pay a deposit and either use it or lose it.
Let's say you didn't have a caravan and booked a cottage. You wouldn't expect to book it without paying a deposit and potentially forfeiting that if you didn't go. I don't see the difference.
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It’s going to be a big change JV for people who tour like you. You spend lots of money with the Club, but probably can’t afford, or don’t wish to afford losing a lot of money due to circumstances beyond your control. Not sure if holiday insurance would be easy either. Lots to think about.
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Deposits are a problem only to personal cash flow if one is able to take up the booking in full. However, if one cannot make use of the booking and money is forfeit, then insurance is a very sensible precaution.
I would be most surprised if "The Club" was not to offer cancellation insurance should deposits be introduced. Remember, insurance can be very lucrative and it has happened that businesses that were trading very well have gone bust simply because they made little profit on the day-to-day activities and did not make money selling insurance based on that activity.
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Your mind works like mine Nav. Very lucrative indeed😉
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I still don't understand your rationale of why the level of deposit should make a difference. You said the CAMC would be your choice so, if you know you want to go to a particular site and you're going to honour that booking, why does it matter if the deposit is £0, £25, £50 or pay in full? You've admitted that, where there are two sites, one from each club, in the same location, you would probably save money using the C&CC especially with the age discount
The only reason i can think of is the possibility that you might not take up the booking and therefore not lose anything.
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Yes I was thinking primarily of Club Sites, and of course it’s standard for cottages etc....
But I just find it crazy that a patch of land to stick a van/tent/camper on has come to this. 😂
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