Booking ahead is unfair at some sites
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...it's not only the 'support ethos' thing, as CR mentions above, if this system is going to be subject to big changes to accommodate the deposits thing then we all know how much extra support is needed....not only for customers but also the system operators themselves...
of course, they might have gone out into the world, had a long hard look at how 'everyone else does it' and bought a market leading package?
less and less bespoke stuff being developed these days...the trade off is usually innovation and specific functionality against ease of support and 'commonality' with everyone else...
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The comet ain’t after you, relax👍🏻😊
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The problem with ‘olde worlde’ is-it’s great in the backwaters even sweet in its right setting of ‘no worries’ World but 21st century commerce calls for speed & reliability, with a main order of NOW not in a while. If things can’t happen when they’re wanted then folk go somewhere who can fulfil their demand. The old adage of ‘you snooze you lose’ is paramount, Apple are just getting it, no longer will the ignoring of demand work. It’s a new age just dawning, not really but it’s coming to a crescendo.
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Back in the day, my old company had a 'market leading' totally bespoke set of systems, delivering some of the earliest 'automatic refilling' of retailers shelves following a sale, and some of the first true EPOS data collection and electronic tilling...pioneering the use of barcodes for stock and sale management.
..but the issue was always support....those young folk who developed (and supported) these systems gradually grew old together and started wondering about life after work, lol....the risk to any business is that the skills and knowledge goes with them....I know, I was part of such a group..
derisking means either huge knowledge transfer programs or to get on the bandwagon and move to the sort of packages that similar businesses use.
for CC (and my company) this would mean trading those in house advantages for (perhaps) a more vanilla approach that's more easily supported.
we've seen some CC 'upgrades' and, gradually the 'cake ain't worth the candle', just go and see what TUI and the like do...
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Surely the basic requirements for a new system are fairly humdrum these days. Everybody will need an account, implement tried/rested (tweaked) proprietary system to handle bookings, amendments & cancellations, outsource technical support and that’s it. As is the way with most systems these days, don’t create a system that routinely allows interaction between member/customer & CMC staff as that’s asking for trouble. Digital entry systems on all sites via key or barcode.
We’ve all grown used to that level of customer support and frustration when things go wrong. If we don’t like it, we know what we can do, but most of us won’t because that’s all there is.
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With the massive profits that some retailers make. and still give their shareholders big returns it is no suprise ithey can spend vast amounts on their IT systems our son is in the same sort of business but they do not rip people off with footware prices
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I'm one of those members David. Chatsworth is only 20 miles away from home and, although we now live just over the border in Nottinghamshire we're Derbyshire born and bred. I admit that we book the site speculatively as, although we an easily get there in 30 minutes without the van on the back, we're both still working and we like the rest and relaxation that site gives us. My wife doesn't work Fridays and my job is flexible so can easily take the day off.
I've just cancelled this coming weekend for the Christmas market but we intend to use the weekend after which I also booked a year ago. I also admit that, as soon as I was able to book for November 2022, I booked three consecutive weekends there as we don't know which one we will go.
We will be more cautious if deposits come in, particularly if they're not refundable, but, as other members say, I'm not breaking any rules.
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You may not be breaking any rules but let us assume you are not the only member following the same MO. Is it any surprise that people like the poor OP can't get into sites? It could be that this sort of booking behaviour is more common than we all aware of and perhaps it is behind the Club looking at deposits as a way of spreading out the jam? The Club will have the stats on this which they hopefully might share with us at a later stage? Its interesting what you say as I remember a conversation with the warden of a Club site some years ago who told me that one couple had booked every weekend and he knew (from previous experience) that many of them would be cancelled, within the rules but nearer to the due date.
On the subject of the IT system and the need for Club staff to be available to answer questions for longer hours than currently offered. Why would this be? If the system can cope with multiple bookings it should allow changes to those booking without ref to staff? The only point I can see where it would be necessary to contact a member of staff is if there was some dispute on whether you should lose the deposit? Its all very well for people to suggest longer staffing hours but that also has a knock on impact on costs which of course we all end up paying.
David
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So can I ask a question, and obviously you don't have to answer and just for fun as they say, what amount of deposit would deter you from making your three, within the rules, bookings?
If it was say £10 per weekend? £20?...
In my view (and nothing to do with your post) moving the 72 hours to whatever, a month? won't change someone who may book like you if you can get one's deposit back or it can be transferred?
Once one has taken the initial 'hit' on then transferring it won't mean that much?
Just thoughts.
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I'd be happy to lose £10 or £20 and would continue to book speculatively on those amounts. I've always been in favour of deposits and have said in the past that I think bookings of two or three nights should be paid in full BUT, if cancelled at least a month in advance should be fully refundable or transferable to another booking. Cancel within thirty days and lose it!
It might affect the way. I book or, at least, make sure I cancel within any time frame if it was refundable or able to be transferred.
I don't think a deposit of £10 or £20 would stop speculators- certainly not me. In my opinion a small deposit like that isn't worth changing the booking system for.
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Thanks for the reply
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of course, they might have gone out into the world, had a long hard look at how 'everyone else does it' and bought a market leading package?
I wonder how many of such type of packages exist? There are very few other holiday organisations of the size or complexity as the CC, so just where would they go to get one?
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mbee1 said:-
I don't think a deposit of £10 or £20 would stop speculators- certainly not me. In my opinion a small deposit like that isn't worth changing the booking system for.
Interesting thought. I reckon the old £10 deposit (which incidentally was doubled from £5 some years earlier) ended around the mid 2000's, give or take a year. According to the Bank of England Inflation Calculator that £10 would now have to be £14.80 to reflect current value. Personally I can't see the Club going back to £10 and I am pretty sure they would be thinking of a figure more than £20, probably £25 for the very reason that some members would be willing to take the hit. They would probably save the £20 in fuel costs by not going? The Club will have to judge it carefully to avoid the situation they had all those years ago when many of the no shows didn't bother to let the site know because they had paid a deposit. From that point of view I imagine the current system is better and could be tweaked to extend the cancellation period to say 7 days as some have suggested, or by limiting the number of outstanding bookings for any one site?
David
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I couldn't tell you as I haven't investigated such leisure industry items... but, surely, the first thing the club would do if looking at 'how others do it' is to arrange to visit those organisations like TUI and other holiday type businesses where the product might be airline seats, hotel rooms or cruise places rather than pitches, pods etc and find out what and why they are using the systems they do...
following some recommendations, some supplier interviews take place, then a long list, short list and then....std selection process....
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But none of those company have the same situation as the CC does, so even after an intensive investigation of what there is around any system would have to be modified, possibly drastically, to meet the club's requirements. All of that cannot be accomplished in the blinking of an eye without a huge input of cash, and we know very well who where that must come from....increased membership fees and further increases in site fees.
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I cannot see the club introducing a deposit of just £15.00. When you think of how much two weeks away in the summer costs at a club site and to stop timewasters or speculative bookings, the deposit needs to be at least £50 if not more and the time limit for a potential refund or transfer to another booking to be at least a month.
Likewise any booking of two nights or more to be paid in full at the time of booking.
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I can imagine the C&CC rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of the CAMC introducing such terms. Personally I can’t see it being more than £30 / 20% which ever is the greater. Or payment in full if less than £30. Given peak prices, 20% would result in a £60 deposit for a family’s week booking, which I think adequate. Initially I would hope that loss of deposit would be set at a week before. The club could monitor this and extend it if they felt it was being abused. Perhaps getting a bit complicated, but if it was only possible to move a deposit once before it was forfeit, that might help.
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Deposits would add unnecessary complexity to the system. Just take credit card info. Clear T&C that any late cancellation/no show will incur a penalty of £50. No agreement to T&C = no booking. The penalty then doesn't have to rely on a deposit and is not related to the actual cost of the stay. 72 hours before is a ridiculously short period. 7 days minimum. I would suggest 14 days. That would sort out the "Oh dear it's going to rain" brigade.
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I personally don't think a week is long enough. The Club is in the leisure industry and, if you booked a hotel or other holiday, you wouldn't get your money back if you cancelled within 6 weeks unless it was potentially covered by insurance.
Members seem to think this is their club and run for them. it isn't. It's in business to make a profit and, whilst that profit isn't paid to highly paid executives or to shareholders, it needs to be run as a business.
I'm the first to admit I've used the booking system to my advantage but, as i said earlier, a £10 or £20 deposit wouldn't stop me booking speculatively whereas payment in full for two nights away would.
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You are a rare individual mb👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻, you have open honesty, as you say you haven’t broken rules at all so have no concerns nor are you selfish. If more had your level of honesty these conversations & complaints wouldn’t need airing so often.
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