CL's pricing themselves as sites?
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GaryFin, Townfoot Farm does overnight parking with services for £12pn
https://www.searchforsites.co.uk/markerMobile.php?id=42203
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Your economics are correct of course; it is stating the obvious; but do you really think that the owners of CLs are thinking along these lines? No one in their right mind is ever going to base a business model on a caravan site with only 5 pitches. The economics will never stack up and to produce an income even close to one from which a person can make a living, the nightly fee would have to be very considerably higher than £15. The CL owners that I have known in my working life, saw the facility as a bit of bunce. Most are based on other businesses from which the main income is derived.
Moreover, I can't see anywhere where the OP suggests that CLs are a "goldmine".
CLs are one of those business models where the trade off between the economics and the market is at odds. To make even a modest profit, the price has to be higher than many, especially those, like me, who are not keen on pitching in an overgrown field with a pot holed access track, would be willing to pay.
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I spoke yesterday to a gentleman who has been a member for many year, is nearing retirement and would like to welcome Members into his 1 acre Orchard near the South Wales Coast and set up a CL.
He thought that running a CL might be a nice income boost to his pension.
Having looked at his location and had a bit of a chat, we concluded that his set-up fees, just to provide 'the basics' would be between £5K and £10K, and possibly £15K if he was to offer EHU.
Now that's a fair chunk of investment, with a limite level of return (as without hardstandings his site would not be accessible during wet/winter months.
So, with a 6 month season, and a maximum of 5 vans on site and an occupancy level of 30-40% in the first few years (if all goes to plan) what do you think he should charge??
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You make a very valid point, however, ANY business has set up fees as they usually have to pay to rent suitable premises, the solicitor's fees to set up the lease, plus the business rates, then the cost of any fixtures and fitments they may need or any stock they require. A CL may be a good idea, but no business is without its downside!
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....but most arent set up from scratch, as Gray suggests....thr primary income is from the business on site....farm, garden centre, large property with paddock etc...
if drainage, water, electric is already at the facility (and just needs extending etc) then costs are kept low...
maintaining a reasonably well drained level field, when you already have the kit/manpower, isnt difficult or expensive.
in that case, just six months of five vans at £15 is £75 a night, £525 a week, £2100 a month.....total over 6 months £12,600.
now thats a nice bit of bunce if the site is low (time/cost) maintenance.
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@Graydjames .... like me, who are not keen on pitching in an overgrown field with a pot holed access track,
You must be going to a different type of CL from me ...
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I do wish some Members (who possibly have a very limited experience of using CLs) would stop doing many of these wonderful little places a disservice. They aren’t for everyone, and ok, some might not be the height of touring luxury, but the vast majority are very nice, encompass a wide range of types, and are generally run by welcoming, hard working, pleasant people.
More often than not, if someone experiences issues with a CL, it’s more about the user than the CL itself.......
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If it is used? ,how many post on here about not wanting just a basic CL it seems most want at least EHU and now it seems by posts, to cater for motor caravans Hardstanding is needed
That is as posted a lot of set up costs, for some not any chance of a return for a long time, I would not call that an investment worth it
I can remember when some fried ds of ours were warden at Clumber Park ,which is very often full at weekends If someone phoned for a Weekend they advised of a local CL that had ehu , who was very pleased of the business, as they proved later in the year
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I am not a CL owner so I have no idea how they think although I imagine few of them are altruistic enough just to provide a CL for the good of it? My point to the OP was that he seemed to want something for the lowest possible cost without understanding the costs of setting up a CL and ongoing running costs. To me £15 a night seems a perfectly reasonable amount of money to spend on a CL but anything less would seem to me totally uneconomic. In his costs below your post Ted points out the likely costs of setting up a CL. Some might think that a CL owner is doing well if the get perhaps £5000/10000 a year from their CL venture. I can understand where a CL is part of a larger business like a farm the extra income could be quite useful. What the unsuspecting amateur might not appreciate is the need to be available on site for reasonable periods of the day, the day to day administration and don't forget the tax return all things they perhaps did not have experience of before retirement. I appreciate your point that perhaps the business model is not what you might apply other types of business but neither should it be a charity. If CL owners don't get at least a reasonable return on the work they put in they will just give up and we will lose more. A couple of years ago we went to a lovely CL near Beccles, right on the river in the grounds of a boatyard. That CL has now closed and the owner has added a static pod on what was the CL and probably earns as much from that as he did the CL so even £15 a night might not be enough to sustain CL's in the future?
David
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...arent they 'intended' for all members to use within the auspices of the exemption certification?
if that means a short stop for some, and leaving with a full tank of water, then thats fine by me if its fine with the owner.
fee paid, no rules broken, why would this be an issue for anyone?
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my post only covers a 6 mth period in a dry well drained area...no need for hardstanding and i would certainly expect a hook up included in a £15 fee.
investment levels on a site with an existing business (and nearby services) will be far less than a 'green field' start up.
from my booking conversations with CL owners, and the fact that the ones we used were full the whole time we were on them, id say there is still a market for a quiet site....CL or perhaps no facs sites.
Covid has certainly got some folk who would 'never' use their own toilet, out on the road making use of the kit they have on board.
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i rather thought he was happy to use a CL but was surprised that prices were higher than he expected and that he couldnt find one for under £15.
certainly no indication that he was going to use the site (should he be able to find one at his price level) for anything other than what it was 'intended' for.
ive stayed on a CL for one night and ive filled the water tank prior to moving on...is there something wrong with this? I thought that was what they were 'intended' for?
...or should i have stayed longer?....or not filled with water?.....or.....
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"I just searched for one around Alnwick as I needed a water topup, and thought a cheap CL would be the ideal place to do that ..."
" ...are there any other options to simply get fresh water fill?"
This seems to be what the OP wants, no indication he wants to stay or pay the full fee. Of course, if Gary would like to come back and confirm that he is looking for an overnight stay at whatever fee the CL charges, including the ability to fill with fresh water that would put a different complexion on things.
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I would say just call at a single house or farm out in the countryside and ask nicely if one can have water.
An Italian couple in a campervan called here one day with that request on their way up the lane to overnight on the edge of the Moor. Nice people and we had a chat after they filled a 20 litre can. They even offered to pay but I told them not to worry.
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......"Except I can't find a single one under £15" which suggests that, if the price were more favourable, he'd be staying?
he'd hardly be considering paying £15 for just a tank of water, would he?
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as I needed a water topup, and thought a cheap CL would be the ideal place to do that ... to simply get fresh water fill
I can't see any indication in the OP that he would be staying at all. All it said was a water top-up and a CL would be the ideal place. I think the simply get gives that.
Perhaps the OP will come back and clarify?
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Not sure how you interpret that, BB, there is absolutely no indication that Gary wants to stay on site, whatever the price. He has said twice that he just wants to fill up with water. Couldn't be clearer as far as I can see!
But please do carry on "reading between the lines"!
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The reason, extugger and WN, that Cumberland is shown is that the club, in it's wisdom does/did not recognise Cumbria as a county. 'Tis them that are still living pre 1974. And yes we have been allowed to visit the odd CL here and there.😉
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I am currently on a CL charging £12 p.n. electrics, internet, washing machine, plenty of elbow room and a damned good view. Apparently a club 'manager' suggested to the owner that his price was below average and ought to be increased. That's a bit of a liberty by the club isn't it?
No wonder his customers keep coming back time after time, a quick poll of the site made me the only one who hadn't been there before.
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In response to the OP's original question, we are at present on a commercial site, on H/S with EHU, our own water point and waste water drain all for £15 pn. So CLs are pricing themselves as sites in this case.
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