Issues when moving to all electric towcars
Already there are going to be many issues relating to using EV's. Range anxiety, charging point availability etc. This will all be increased when towing a caravan. For example how many charging stations will provide space for the caravan during the charging process? So is it time for Caravan designers to think out of the box?
My suggestion would be to add, the same type battery being used for the car, to the chassis of the caravan connected as at present to the car. This could be charged overnight when on a hook up on site. Also using similar technology, used by motor racing, it should be possible to get a charge, from the rotation of the wheels, much like the dynamo that powered the lights on an old bike. Finally, the roof of the caravan could have a custom made solar panel covering all available solid surfaces ie. around windows etc to add to the charge, There should be minimal changes to the caravan wiring as it virtually already exists.
What do you think?
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I think it would make the caravan so heavy that you'd never tow it with an ordinary car.😂😂
Somebody suggested similar on here once before but there's not much chance of finding the thread.
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Tow Cars will become or are already heavier when battery powered. They also have more pulling power at lower revs than diesel/petrol cars. We need to do something, otherwise caravanning will become less and less popular due to anxiety of what will happen if you cant find an available charging point. Perhaps, caravans could be made lighter by using other materials rather than chipboard.
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I think you could well be seeing the demise of the caravan? Motor caravans (Campervans and motorhomes) are becoming the LV of choice and this will be more so if it becomes easier to tour and park these. It is more feasible to produce all electric motor caravans.
peedee
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Mr H, your-‘we need to do something’, unless you have a cunning plan there is nothing you or anyone else can do🤷🏻♂️. It’s a firm decision, the Govt/World isn’t going to have a change of heart because of a few Caravanners I’m afraid☹️😞
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A charge from rotating wheels on the caravan = drag, so in effect more effort needed by the towcar and less range available.
As for the wiring virtually exists. At the moment 2.5mm cable is predominantly used by car and caravan for the permanent 12v , along with pins/sockets rated to that current. For the car to receive a charge or use of a caravans modular battery, would require a much much bigger towball socket and plug to carry the amperage required by the tow vehicle.
I agree something must change, and I would think it would be the demise of the touring caravan. Plus I don't fancy sleeping above a bed of charging modular batteries at night on site.
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And caravans are already built of (too) light flimsy materials rather than chipboard.
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Just imagine when someone suggested changing car power to electric was told it would never work because there are not enough charging points around the country. The designers did not give up but sort innovative ways to overcome the various issues. Unfortunately, caravan designers are more set in developing a variety of layouts rather than new innovation possibly because it is somewhat a cottage industry. There are lightweight materials if designed right can lighten traditional wood units eg some interior doors have a corrugated cardboard interior rather than wood. You can also build in strength when using plastics. When I said the wiring exists I was well aware the wire would have to be upgraded but the principle is there. I am not trying to stop the switch to EV's rather trying to bring the caravan in line. Having toured California with an RV I would still prefer a caravan to have the flexibility of going anywhere off site without a major upheaval, and who wants to sit in the same seat in the evening as you have sat all day driving.
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Two points to correct your misconceptions regarding MHs. There is no major upheaval in taking a MH off site for the day. In fact, I’d say it's less fuss than transferring your gear to the car. Secondly, there is no compulsion to stay in the cab seats when on site if you buy a van with a lounge area.
I think you miss the point that caravans are already built to be as light as possible and, also, you need to consider the power supply available to sites which already struggle to cope when folk turn their heating on en masse.
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Just to point out that EVs don't have a conventional battery, they have modular/cellular batteries. I've said previously if you think of a pack of dominoes laid out in a rectangle shape on the ground this is similar to an EV which has it's batteries in the sub frame. You can't just lift them out as you might do with your car or van. So you can't interchange them with a van battery..but I'm sure new developments will come along making the whole thing a lot less complicated.
When you open the bonnet or boot of an EV there is nothing to see (maybe some windscreen washer in the front) everything is below the floor or boxed in out of sight. They are computer driven via their batteries.
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When you bear in mind that major manufacturers such as Ford will stop producing ICE models from the mid 2020's altogether and LandRover will be doing the same then a radical rethink about towing vehicles is going to be needed pretty soon.
Even if buying a Diesel powered tow car before they stop production isn't going to help if availability of parts, fuel and tax are going to make it prohibitive.
Funny enough I'm reading a book from the early 1990s where the detective believes the mobile phone will never take off as there are far too many problems with finding a signal (charging station) and the phones themselves are too cumbersome( batteries). I remember thinking that I wouldn't be able to use one for a while due to a lack of transmitters and so it proved. I can see I may have the same problem vis-a-vis charging stations.
BTW, just to correct Mr H about charging on site, I've been looking at booking some CLs and over 50% of those I looked at this past week said no charging of EVs on site.
So I may be going over to the Dark Side myself in 5 years time.
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I wonder how many of us will be alive when the Infrastructure and battery capacity /charging times will catch up with the way we are used to driving at present
or will the environmentalists ,made enough noise about the very high pollution, waste and costs it now takes to make the batteries 
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Mr H
I think it's good that people are asking questions and suggesting solutions. The practicality of such changes tend to be based on what we know now.
The interesting thing is that we know a bit about what is likely to happen with electric cars. Concerns about range will gradually disappear as technology changes and improves the situation. So in the longer term I am not sure we need to worry about how far we can tow with an electric car because the range will improve as we go along. Obviously towing will impact on that range as it does with petrol and diesel currently.
What is less clear is what will happen with caravans? If people want to maintain the current size and equipment we could be in trouble? For all we know caravan manufacturers will carry on as before in the hope that the towing capacity of EV's become the same as the ICE cars they are replacing? One of the reasons your suggestion would probably not work is all about weight. To add batteries to a caravan chassis would probably add about 500kgs which would mean a more substantial chassis, increasing the weight even more.
I wonder if the future of caravanning will lend itself more to the static type of holiday and people who want to tour will gradually move towards motorhomes as has been mentioned by others.
David
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Sorry Tin Wheeler, I spent a month touring with an RV on roads more equipped for them than over here. Whilst the connections to the water electricity and wastes were in a standardised position it still took some time to connect and disconnect. Then we had to put away items like the kids toys and plates crockery etc Sometimes this was simply because the kids wanted a Mc Donalds. The RV was 32 feet long and we needed all available seating for the three kids, including the driver and passenger one. So whilst. many people would want one, it is not for me despite many advantages over caravanning. Finally, I cannot afford one on my pension.
To the others When I tow my caravan I use about a third more fuel than without, so any caravan located EV type battery, would not need to be the full size of the car one and could be chassis loaded. I did not reference the standard caravan battery or expect to remove the EV one. The flexible type solar panelling could be made to replace the roof thus not making the caravan much heavier.
With all this I think there is many avenues we should look at before giving up. I have just read about a special paint finish that could act as a solar panel. Who Knows.........
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No need to apologise, Mr H. It's clearly a whole different scenario from the experience in the UK using more modest MHs and engaging a different mindset.👍🏻
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I was refering to the many millions who have yet to be convinced it is the way to go
,and your small EV? with range extender petrol engine ,makes for an easy drive, as you as at present and well into the future do not have the "worry "of finding a charging point while many LAs prevaricate over when and if they will be installed a problem it seems some in HMG have realised by not stopping HIbrid production beyond the hoped for date of some ICE vehicles
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EV's may be a stop gap. Hydrogen fuel cells seem a more realistic solution that would enable travel as we currently know it. I'll have hung up my spurs by then, I suspect.
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I know one caravanner who, for personal daily use from home, purchased an EV (car) and has since reverted to a petrol vehicle in order to obtain a decent range in terms of distance, 5 mins for refuelling, thus finding it more convenient in overall usage.
I suspect that the price of decent 2nd hand petrol/diesel tugs will rocket when they are no longer manufactured.
Does anyone want an X-trail in a few years time - let me know?
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From what I have read, Hydrogen is very expensive to produce and uses more energy than is required to charge EV's. Until this issue is resolved it would seem that EV's will be in the ascendancy. As EV's gain ground there would have to be a compelling reason to change. Technology always moves on at a pace so it is difficult predict what the future holds but until hydrogen is cheaper to produce than electricity it faces an uphill struggle.
David
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I suspect that as the world changes, the technology will catch up ever faster. Already it's becoming more accepted, I read, that big investment in fossil fuels is increasingly seen as a bad move, so the money will move to greening things. The motivation behind it may not be green, but the money will be there. So like computers that filled a room and could do less than even my non-smart phone, progress will happen.
I'd like to think if can include caravans
On the solar roof, for example, - there is already development of lightweight stick-on PV material. We saw an early example of it at the Machynlleth Alt. Tech centre in Wales around 10 years ago and I gather it's come on by leaps & bounds since then. It's way more efficient now than the 5yr old panels we have on our house roof.
Don't abandon hope, Mr H !0 -
Hedgehurst I wont ever give up. I have been a designer most of my life and have had to put up with negativity and "It'll never work" attitudes.
My real idea is to make the EV batteries removable rather like a DVD used to do. Then you could go into a garage, like you do now and simply replace it with a fully charged one using a forklift principal. The pump would be replaced by a carousal / conveyor belt taking the removed battery underground on a charging rack ie in the space now used for fuel. The recharged batteries would come up and the first available one be placed into the car. This would make the process almost a quick as at present, would stop existing garages going to the wall, and also eliminate the huge cost of the fixed battery replacement, currently, about 7 year lifespan. Not to mention the total infrastructure costs.Those car manufacturers needing more power could have an additional battery accessed on the other side. Varying charging formats could be catered for as we have with diesel and petrol. Obviously, this would mean all batteries would have to be a standard exterior format and the apertures fairly constant. Alignment of the car with the carousel could be using electronic sensing.
However, as we cant even at this stage agree on a standard nozzle design I don't hold out much hope. Can you imagine coming home to your road of terraced houses and someone is in your cherished charging point, and all the cables crossing the pavement? or a half mile long queue at the charging point even if the charging process was just an hour. The whole thing needs to be reviewed by experts from all related areas with a common goal rather than the individualist process at present. I cant get the council to fill a pothole let alone convert a lamp post to multi user charging resource.
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And that, Mr H, demonstrates the type of obstacle in the way of constructing a caravan in the manner you described.
I'm not saying it'll never happen but, at present, it's so impractical as to be pie in the sky.
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Tinwheeler who would have thought we could take the original phone and have one now that is more like a computer with no wires. It was a vision. If you believe in an idea it usually can be realised. The development of the Covid vaccine is a good example, when you bring all interested parties together with a common goal. If you had proposed autonomous driving cars you would be laughed at.
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Yes but I refer you to my final sentence.
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