Booking Fairness... Time for a Rethink??
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I believe the original reason that they dropped the deposit was because when they change booking format the new (imported) system was incapable of dealing with deposits, so it was easier scrapping the deposit system than trying to change the new one. You well know what happens when the CC try to do any modifications to their web site!!
Edit Having just read David's post that followed your's TW it would appear that I was on right track.
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You are right, Nellie. That was the reason the club dropped deposits but I maintain they would have been reintroduced if the club was losing business or experiencing difficulties due to not taking deposits. They would have found a way if it was necessary.
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Yet it appears the other club with deposits has more no shows and late cancellations. That is more lost income. Why bring that back?
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I'm not proposing that they be brought back, I'm quite blase` about them, (although SWMBO is not keen on them, and who am I to disagree with her?). I think the reason for not reintroducing them is that HO don't want to upset the majority of the members who are content with threatens system as it is, even if it means missing out on an income from those "speculative bookers".
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👍 Sure is K. And the Club will be fully aware of how well or not it’s Sites are doing, that’s why they employ a highly skilled and paid Marketing Director, and other staff who look at these statistics.
If the Club was having difficulties filling a target percentage of pitch nights it would do something about it, in fact mid week reductions aim to do this, as does the popular (by all accounts) voucher scheme put into place to tempt Members back out.
Its not the responsibility of the Club to make sure Members Joe & Josephine Bloggs get the pitch they want, at the Site they want, on the dates they want, the Bloggs need to get off their comfy backsides and put some effort in, like others do.
It’s life, those who aspire achieve, those who don’t tend to look for blame elsewhere.🤷♀️
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That's exactly what those folk who renew their membership by DD do. I haven't heard of any security breaches or other incorrect use of the info yet.👍
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Personally speaking....Yes, it matters.
20 odd years back, we used pretty much only Club sites, and yes, you can depend on a certain standard. Gradually we branched out into CLs, and a few years back we rejoined the CCC.
Now, with only the 2 of us to consider, when planning a trip, location is still the most important thing, but 13 years into retirement, cost is an increasingly important consideration too, as is uncertainty over health issues.
Having decided where we want to go, and when, we look at Club sites first, check prices, then look at other possibilities.
CCC is invariably less expensive for us, CLs usually even less expensive, so we need to consider whether the Club "premium" is worth it to have the flexibility the current booking system gives.
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The OP said: The club needs to have a good hard think about their booking policies.
Put simply, why would anybody think that they have not?
I have read many suggested 'improvements' on various occasions from folk that cannot get there desired site on dates that they wanted. In the last 25 years I can count on the fingers of one hand, without my thumb the number of times that I have not been able to achieve the dates that I wanted. Half of that time I was working and taking 9 or ten weeks holiday breaks in three or more trips.
What could be improved?
A deposit like the C&CC? The deposit that I pay for my C&CC sites is very much the same as the deposits on most commercial sites that I use; averaging at £5 or £6 a night. Very unlikely to stop me cancelling should I wish to.
Restrict the number of advanced booking? Once I had used my quota of CMC sites I would look elsewhere, and take my business elsewhere to achieve my desired locations.
Pay in full a month before arrival. I have only done that twice in my memory. On both occasions I could not find an alternative on a third occasion I could and did find another site within 5 to 10 miles.
Minimum number of nights booking? Unlikely to affect my 'nights and move' philosophy but likely to be unpopular with many.
I can't recall any other cunning plans to 'improve' folks booking success. Probably were others but far to convoluted for me to be able to remember.
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I’ve watched this thread for a while now and seen every argument presented multiple times. My observation is that the dynamic of supply and demand has changed over the decades and hugely since covid has deminished foreign holidays. In the 1970s you could ‘tour’ in a ‘touring caravan’, meandering and moving when you fancied, with a certainty that there’d be space wherever you went. Today we have a different story - stocks of leisure vehicles have largely sold out. Retirees have flocked to motor homes, caravans are more homely so more complicated to move. We’re currently on a CCC site with 70% motorhomes and not a single neighbour who was here when we arrived 12 days ago. The C&MC Longleat site, which we once used as a stopover, at short notice, when returning from Glastonbury festival, was fully booked.
For us, the flexibility of making last minute stopover decisions, arriving later in the day and just taking things as they come, was ideal. That’s not the case today, though it can be in France. What’s the difference? The number of sites, I propose. We find C&MC sites over regimented and CLs increasingly sophisticated, when simple sites, not hardstanding with EHU, would suffice. But there needs to be very many more if the current boom in UK holidays continues.
Interestingly too, one of our neighbours commented that they’d always used site ablutions blocks until current conditions have left them closed. Having discovered the convenience of using their in-van facilities, they wouldn’t be reverting. Maybe we will see simple sites and more of them, starting now.
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Well any product could have a lot of USP all coming together to give a quality product, or at least what people want to buy, which many do like yourself.
But didn't you yourself make use full of this no deposit and easy cancellation procedure? I recall you swapped (rightly so) a site for another at relatively short notice this summer? Had you been on a non club site you may have had to pay all up front, and lost not only any deposit but perhaps all of your money as is the case with some non club sites if you had wanted to change sites.
You must appreciate the system worked well for you?
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I changed a site booking as the goal posts had been moved ie no facilities though there was no reduction in fees. But even if I'd paid a deposit, I was only swapping within the same company so I don't really see what difference a deposit would have made .... it's not like I was swapping the booking from the CC to the C& CCC. If there'd been a chance of loosing money I'd have stayed with the original site.
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I hope you are right in your assumption that more "basic"sites are possibly the way forward
As you have posted CLs are becoming more sophisticated, and the reason? because it seems the uk market is for "better facilities"
I suspect? the site you are on with the 70% motor caravans is either close to public transport or a village /town as that seems to be the pattern as it seems many are used as a caravan substitute by those who have not towed or do not want to tow anymore
I can remember the days of real touring in the UK but as you say it has become more dificult with the very large increase in L/V ownership and the now it seems increases in hire companies
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JennyC said:-
I propose. We find C&MC sites over regimented and CLs increasingly sophisticated, when simple sites, not hardstanding with EHU, would suffice.
Whilst I don't agree on hardstandings question as a motorhomer however more simpler sites would be fine by me. However I suspect we would be in a minority. When you see on Facebook people saying I want a nice CL but it must have toilets and showers you do start to wonder!!! Basic sites will have an appeal to some but I doubt that is what the majority want.
David
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As I as said rightly so, but you're missing my point, firstly I did write: ...Had you been on a non club... I made that very point so I'm not sure why you'r writing about swapping within the same company or from one club to another at all?
But you were not, you had a club booking and hence used the club's procedures to your advantage, and as I said with good reason (not that any is needed). It was easy and financially painless, and who knows if the club had deposits if you would have been charged an admin fee. But that is speculation.
The point I was trying to make is that the current no deposit/late cancellations/easy changing sites system worked extremely well for you and yes I agree that is a USP of the club as stated by Kj.
Yet I found it puzzling for you to question him as to if that mattered, as you had made very good use of it and I thought, perhaps incorrectly you would appreciate the current easy procedures and yes it mattered in your case?
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you're making more of this than is warranted .... I wasn't on a none club site so I can't see your argument.
I couldn't give a monkey's if the club introduced deposits or left it as it is. We tend to avoid club sites with their array of coloured pegs & gravel and me swapping to AN Other site was the very first time I've done so .... but this is also the 1st time we've had COVID 19.
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not really and you keep missing the point for some reason my point so I'll try again just on last time if I may?
Kj said the current system is a USP and an advantage
you said wound it matter if that advantage was not there?
I am trying to ask you as you used that advantage so well in your case , why you think that advantage does not matter?
I don't see your argument about using club sites due to Covid?
You booked one club site then swapped to another. Are you saying that club sites offer something, more protection? than other non club sites? Or was it that you could swap, book, cancel with no financial loss? If that is te case then it does indeed matter?
Anyway I'll stop here, as it's getting OT, but feel free to carry on.
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To the OP, after 450 posts in response to your question you may have observed:
The CAMC is a classic example of the me me me society created over the decades by our elders. Have you tried a cruise yet? Very similar exhibitions of behaviour by elders. Yet people wonder where the youngsters get it from
In order to make best advantage of your membership you must learn to play the system.
To fully play the system you can now book 21 nights in every month one year in advance, at any time up to 72 hours before the start of your booking you can amend it to take the few nights / weekends / weeks you actually want to use, or cancel them all, with no penalty. It's in the rules. Only takes a few minutes once a month to push the buttons on a keyboard, after all.
School terms are generally published in sufficient time to meet that MO.
That is especially useful if you want a honey pot site.
You must cast aside all thoughts of selflessness or fairness, it's each for their own in this 'club'.
Have you managed a booking yet? Just wait till you arrive on a site and see the early arrivers queuing in local roads to get in first to grab the best pitch, whatever the best pitch is. On our recent holiday at Southport the earliest arriver was at 10:15 am on one day. 11:00 am on another day. Observed as we went out of the site for the day.
The CAMC has only a very small sum of sites in the scheme of things. Lots of alternatives out there that you will often be told to use if you dwell here long enough with your new way of thinking.
As a family, we found it amusing things hadn't progressed since our parents chose not to join back in the 60's, but we felt we'd give it a go. The CL network is worth the fee alone giving us access to pitches near family attractions like Alton Towers in concert with Merlin passes to enjoy family times.
Soon learned how to play the system to meet our needs. In some ways that's the appeal, play a game to see if you win a prize.
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yes well could be but it illustrates one very important point. For whatever reason why aren't these no shows informing the CCC they are not going to show up? Is it a case of well I've paid a deposit I'll just lose it?
At least with the club more are informing the site and the pitch can be re-booked
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Welcome to the Motorhome club. Are you finding it difficult to book a site for a week. This could be because motohomers only want single nights very often and therefore break up the week restricting caravanners who tend to stay longer on site. As a caravanner you are told which way to pitch up where to position your awning and car but wardens tell me that motor homes can park how they want on a pitch. Have you been told that motor homes have priority on hard standings because the grass is too wet for them. What happened to first come first served?
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In all the years we have been members ,,it has been very rare that i have not been able to book a pitch when and where we want ,and even better since the 12months in advance for bookings has been available,with the big plus of easy alterations to cope with age related appointments
I just takes a bit of advance planning and only this year will we be less than 50nights away it is normally over 200 nights away and mostly on cc sites
I can appreciate with the growth in ownership of motor caravans when the weather is as wet as has been at times in the past years , Site staff want to mitigate that some motor caravan owners are not the best of drivers ,and in adverse weather on sites can be noted getting easily "stuck"then still think it does not matter about how they damage grass areas (not just pitches) it can also be said some tuggers are also poor at getting on to their pitch
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Sounds as if you need to become a motorhomer as then all your troubles will magically disappear
Seriously, on a site with 100 pitches I can't imagine there would be more than half a dozen motorhomes that book and stay for one night, there are probably a few caravanners that do the same especially if they have a long journey to their final destination. So hardly likely to cause the mayhem you suggest. Members book for all lengths of stays. If someone books Saturday to Saturday you could argue they have messed up two weekends for other members! Every site I go on I am told how to pitch so there is no excuse. Site staff do have to manage pitches and rarely that might mean reserving a hardstanding pitch for a motorhome. They could of course just let them park a heavy vehicle on grass which could cause untold damage to the pitch and make it unusable for anyone that follows. Apparently some sites now have mats which can help motorhomes on wet pitches although it wouldn't be my choice. If things were that bad I would rather pitch in the site car park!
David
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You are wrong about pitching. Both MHs and caravans can pitch rear in or nose in providing the correct corner is placed to the peg. Check out the instructions on the site plans.
HS are occasionally alloted to heavier units of all types when pitch conditions require it. It happened to me once when we had a large T/A caravan.
When we had a caravan we rarely stayed on the same site for more than 3 nights. Another member will tell you that MHs tend to stay on site fir days and days without moving. I dont think you can blame the difficulty in getting pitches this year on anything much other than covid.
Time to lose the anti MH stance, perhaps?
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but wardens tell me that motor homes can park how they want on a pitch.
One MH owner at a site we visited recently wouldn't agree. Pitched it how he liked so as to facilitate an awning. It wasn't long before it was moved, even though the awning was erected.
As TW states above, the same rules apply to both in order to maintain at least 6 metres between the sides of caravan or MH units.
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This could be because motohomers only want single nights
Not in my experience, I've notice when they pitch next or near me, some stay for a few days then move on, while others are there much longer than I am. Some go off for the day, some stay there all the time.
I've no problem at all with MH's booking for what ever length of time they wish. I've done single nights as a caravaner too.
Again MH and caravans all pitch the same way in my experience, all facing the same way and nose in/nose out.
No I've never been told that MH have priority on HS.
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