Booking Fairness... Time for a Rethink??

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  • Tinwheeler
    Tinwheeler Forum Participant Posts: 23,142 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2020 #362
  • EasyT
    EasyT Forum Participant Posts: 16,194
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    edited September 2020 #363

    I disagree with many of your points. 

    members will leave due to this issue, Ie whats the point of paying a membership fee if for what ever reason ,they then can not get bookings.

    I never had a real issue in previous years, lets see what happens next year

    However the O/P was about fairness, and the system as it is. is far more favorable to those not in work, then families and those in work 

    A total misunderstanding. There are ample opportunities to book a site, harder this present year perhaps for all. Old and young.. 

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited September 2020 #364

    But then Wikipedia is available for any one to update and alter as they please ,if reading their "small print"surprised

  • peedee
    peedee Club Member Posts: 9,387 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2020 #365

    I don’t think the current system favours anyone or is biased other than to those that are prepared to book way in advance. The message to members is to book now, even if they are not sure. This encourages members to reserve a pitch, especially at hot spot sites, even when they are still in the ‘looking’ or ‘dreaming’ stages of days away and they can take advantage of the Clubs’ no penalty cancellation policies later. It is a known fact in the leisure industry, long lead bookings have higher cancellation rates than others and I was surprised the Club did not introduce deposits when the rolling system was introduced.

    If there are high cancellation rates. it can lead to distorted demand, is this something we are seeing?

    In the hotel industry it has been shown that 7 percent of bookings are cancelled if no deposits are taken. This falls to 4 percent with deposits. I have no reason to believe it is any different for other types of industry including camping.

    The complaints of difficulties of obtaining bookings at the Club’s  holiday type sites are not going to go away from this and other forums as long as bookings  are so easy to make and penalties for abuse are seen as being so feeble

    peedee

     

  • Cornersteady
    Cornersteady Club Member Posts: 14,428 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2020 #366

    you really believe wiki more than the club?

  • Cornersteady
    Cornersteady Club Member Posts: 14,428 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2020 #367

    In the hotel industry it has been shown that 7 percent of bookings are cancelled if no deposits are taken. This falls to 4 percent with deposits.

    Could you post where you got these figures from PD? It would be interesting. I cannot find that figure anywhere, in fact I see higher percentages?

    ...no reason to believe it is any different for other types of industry including camping.

    What? applying a set of data from probably more expensive hotels and applying that to other industries is extrapolation taken to another level. As I said hotels are generally more expensive than campsites and there is usually a cancellation insurance, that probably could give an idea why the rate falls (if it does) which of course is not needed with the club.

    No reason to believe, even when the club has stated the opposite when it removed deposits?

     

  • EasyT
    EasyT Forum Participant Posts: 16,194
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    edited September 2020 #368

    The complaints of difficulties of obtaining bookings at the Club’s  holiday type sites are not going to go away from this and other forums as long as bookings  are so easy to make and penalties for abuse are seen as being so feeble

    Many people were sat on untaken leave when sites were reopened. It is not surprising that sites were busy through August, they normally are busy and the present circumstances have exacerbated it. I have found various areas to be busy in September and I suspect more so this year. 

    There are also sites not opening or not opening toilet blocks that deters some from using those sites. 

    There will always be complaints by some who cannot get what they want for whatever reason. 

  • nelliethehooker
    nelliethehooker Club Member Posts: 13,644 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2020 #369

    No reason to believe, even when the club has stated the opposite when it removed deposits?

    But is that any more believable than the figures that peedee put forward? As the saying goes " They would say that anyway"!

  • Tinwheeler
    Tinwheeler Forum Participant Posts: 23,142 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2020 #370

    I don’t think the club would say that anyway, Nellie.

    If dropping deposits resulted in worse no shows or cancellations, they'd hastily backtrack and reintroduce them saying the trial was a failure due to members being confused.

    It wouldn't be in the club's interests to continue the no deposit policy if it was causing them grief.👍🏻

  • DavidKlyne
    DavidKlyne Club Member Posts: 13,864 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2020 #371

    Peedee said:- In the hotel industry it has been shown that 7 percent of bookings are cancelled if no deposits are taken. This falls to 4 percent with deposits. I have no reason to believe it is any different for other types of industry including camping.

    Quite honestly if that was the cancellation rate, a difference of 3%, it hardly makes a very strong argument for the reintroduction of deposits because the actual benefit gained seems very small given the cost of implementing  a deposit system. All those years ago when the online system went live I was told by a warden, whilst booking in,  they were having real problems with deposits being taken via HQ as the point of sale system then used on sites weren't compatible. It seemed strange that a short while afterwards deposits were abolished. We were told at the time that deposits didn't work and people just forewent the money and didn't bother letting the site know they weren't turning up. Now had it not been a software problem what was to stop the Club doubling the deposit to £20 which would have made people take a bit more notice? In between then and now the suggestion has been put forward that taking deposits would mean two transaction charges but recent rule changes means these transaction charges are low enough not to be an issue.

    David

  • Twos more then one
    Twos more then one Forum Participant Posts: 373
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    edited September 2020 #372

    As a member of both club,s believe,  a deposit that is not refundable  if not cancelled with in a month of the site arrival date , practicality eradicates  the booking hogging issue  that the CMC has 

     

  • Twos more then one
    Twos more then one Forum Participant Posts: 373
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    edited September 2020 #373

    Percentages on their own me little
    Ie 3% of  100 is 3
    3% of 1 million is 30000

    The club markets 200 sites 
    assuming a  average figure of 100 pitches per site
    Thais 20000 pitch 
    Assuming a overall capacity fill of 80% 
    3% difference  = 600  extra cancellation a week 
    Assuming an average of £180 per weeks booking £180000 a week 
    Not an insignificant number and a good argument for reintroducing a deposit scheme 

  • Cornersteady
    Cornersteady Club Member Posts: 14,428 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2020 #374

    and would result in less income due more empty pitches not being taken up. 

    So a person has gone past the deadline and has to cancel, what is the incentive to let the club know?

    What is booking hogging anyway?

  • Cornersteady
    Cornersteady Club Member Posts: 14,428 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2020 #375

    Except the club said they didn't work?

    Those no shows and cancellations are taken up and hence no loss of income.

  • Twos more then one
    Twos more then one Forum Participant Posts: 373
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    edited September 2020 #376

    Your last two posts are  make the argument why the present system is unfair 

  • DavidKlyne
    DavidKlyne Club Member Posts: 13,864 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2020 #377

    But your assumptions don't allow for cancelled pitches being rebooked, even at short notice so I suspect your £180000 a week figure is very wide of the mark. No organisation in the tourist industry is likely to completely run at 100% occupancy  but I reckon, certainly in the busy times of year, the Club run pretty close. What cancelled pitches allow, even late cancelled ones, is for other members to take advantage as we often do. 

  • Twos more then one
    Twos more then one Forum Participant Posts: 373
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    edited September 2020 #378

     The O/P is about fairness in respect of the booking system
    Relying on other members to fill the cancelled  slots, is not an argument for the present system, it is an argument against the present booking system  as it shows  that  speculative bookings  is a problem %
    I have not worked it out as at 100% but an average of 80%

     

     

  • Twos more then one
    Twos more then one Forum Participant Posts: 373
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    edited September 2020 #379

    Your assuming 100% of take up by other members of the cancelled booking and  that is not going to happen 

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited September 2020 #380

    It also does not take into account of pitches that seem to suddenly appear on late availability that as often happens on sites where pitches have been rested for numerous reasons , and are now available or the site manager has chanced that some pitches can be used for just the weekend and taken out of use again on the Sunday night?

  • Twos more then one
    Twos more then one Forum Participant Posts: 373
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    edited September 2020 #381

    What hotel do you know that does not take a deposit for a pre booked room ?

     

  • Twos more then one
    Twos more then one Forum Participant Posts: 373
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    edited September 2020 #382

    Your clutching at straws with that one 
    The club will have taken into account resting of pitches

     

  • JVB66
    JVB66 Forum Participant Posts: 22,892
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    edited September 2020 #383

    But i know that only site staff know what pitches they have available at any one time!! not EGH ,and there are now to many other types of accommodation on sites to make an estimate of what is available for tourers over the whole network ,and 200 sites is not a correct figure as it seems you are counting other than club owned sites to get to your figures

  • Tinwheeler
    Tinwheeler Forum Participant Posts: 23,142 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2020 #384

    One or two.....🤣🤣🤣

  • Amesford
    Amesford Club Member Posts: 685 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2020 #385

    It's a case of using the system to your advantage we have already booked sites for 2021 we have nothing to loose in doing so, we very rarely cancel as we also have the option to amend those bookings if it's possible to do so.  

  • ErnieJH
    ErnieJH Forum Participant Posts: 114
    edited September 2020 #386

    As far as I'm concerned the system for booking works very well, it's very rare that I can't get the site I want. I tend to plan well ahead and don't normally cancel. I think we should stay with what we have at the moment i'm sure it suits the great majority of members. No system can be expected to make everyone happy, but that's just life I'm afraid.

  • Cornersteady
    Cornersteady Club Member Posts: 14,428 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2020 #387

    Easy to say that but would you care to explain why?

  • Cornersteady
    Cornersteady Club Member Posts: 14,428 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2020 #388

    but a vast number are, which under your deposits idea would be just left empty. Every rebooked pitched is a win not a lost income. 

  • Cornersteady
    Cornersteady Club Member Posts: 14,428 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2020 #389

    can I answer? All the ones I deal with. And to quote premier Inn:

    Flex: If you book a Flex rate you may choose whether to pay for your room in full at the time of booking or to pay on arrival.

    And Jurys Inn:

    Deposits are not required for our fully flexible rates

    There are many more.

  • JollyKernow
    JollyKernow Forum Participant Posts: 2,629
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    edited September 2020 #390

     Evening

     I'm a site manager with the CAMC, I'm also a member of both clubs. I know lots of site staff working for both. Interestingly the other club with their deposit system have far more no shows and last minute cancellations than we have. Fact.

    JK

  • DavidKlyne
    DavidKlyne Club Member Posts: 13,864 ✭✭✭
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    edited September 2020 #391

    I am sorry but you have no basis in fact for what you say. You have no idea whether people are making speculative bookings. Also how do you define a speculative booking. As far as any of us know bookings that are cancelled could be due to perfectly genuine reasons.