Aires in the UK
Comments
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I met a motorhoming lady at a party who said, "We hate campsites". It seemed a sweeping statement so I fetched her another drink and asked to tell me where they and their Motorhome slept instead.
And as the story unfolded it became clear that it was really a matter of pride to her. "We are motorhomers, even in the UK we don't need campsites". And she told me of urban car parks which she insisted were Aires, and the back yard of pubs, and the windswept clifftop at Jennycliff at Plymouth.
It wasn't about cost, and it wasn't about convenience. It was just her principles, "We are motorhomers, we don't need campsites".
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There’s not a lot we can say really, Euro. Obviously she thought it was their right to do so.
Did you ask where they disposed of their waste?
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It's a private business catering for MHs, Nav. It's not a club site discriminating against part of its membership, nor is it a council funded site using tax payers money to cater for a minority, so what's the problem?
My local Ford dealer won’t repair Hyundai cars. Is that discriminatory?
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good question, i thought the same when i read the below re Scalby Mills Scarborough, I know the toilet facilities are open in the summer, but were not open when i was there in December
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This is a private Parking! Occupy one bay only during any charge period and get a valid ticket! Arrive 6pm, leave before 9am and it's free! Great spot for the north beach (dogs allowed). Move your Moho to the free road parking for the day during the chargeable period. Quiet after 11pm
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note part in bold, it made me wonder just how long he spent in this location, it is £6 to park for the day, but clearly this particular person was having none of that, so it begs the question , would he pay to stay on an aires if they were available ???
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There might be more Nav, nothing to stop a private campsite only catering for caravans, or another only for motorhomes. In the same way as no pets or children. I've no problem with anything like that, it's not using any of my money either membership or collected through taxes.
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It wasn't the discrimination that I posted about - although I think that is rampantly unfair - but the claim they made that they were the only site in Scotland that does not accept trailer caravans.
I have heard of sites ( including a Caravan Club CL ) that refuse twin axle caravans. Perhaps to expand your analogy slightly, do some car dealers refuse to repair red cars?
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well if they do refuse, what's wrong with that?
A site not accepting twin axles or MH only is fine, are you saying it isn't?
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To quote - "So Arfern is the only site in Scotland that discriminates against trailer caravans . . . ?"
It sure looked like you were posting about discrimination, Nav. Otherwise, why use the term when "doesn’t accept" would have been more fitting? 🤷🏻♂️
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It’s a private business. Lots of private businesses have exclusions as part of their modus operandi. Lots have dress codes, height restrictions for safety, age restrictions for certain activities, etc.......
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I learned the English language in the middle of the previous century when "discriminate" meant "to select from others" and that is the meaning I have used.
Any more sites to add to the ones in The Trossachs National Park - which I understand was as attempt to stop the excesses of wild camping?
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Navigateur, as the owners of the site are known to me I object to your comments about discrimination. Throughout Europe there are similar sites, the OP refers to the concept of motorhome Aires. The site mentioned isn't an Aire but it's small and is an enterprise which no doubts benefits the local community as do other types of accommodation.
I mentioned this site before and got a couple of similar comments and it's unfortunate to hear them again.
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So easily overcome by the Council by charging over winter for parking? Unfortunately I think that Mr Lythgoe might be unhappy with that outcome! The Council could also ban large vehicles from the front row overlooking the sea which might make Mr Lythgow happier. Whilst I jest a little the serious point is that there is a discussion to be had which would probably suit the majority. The Council might even get more income and if local residents really didn't like the charging of parking a free pass could be issued to residents of Scarborough?
David
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All seafront parking in the winter is free because all the meters are covered with pvc covers for protection from sea water and sea spray which can be severe at times. As a local we get discount on parking charges for all carparks within the Borough.
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We have stayed on two C&CC sites that don't take caravans, only motor homes and tents. One was at Minehead and the other at Folkstone. In both cases it is because of a long narrow winding access road not under the control of the club. It was also obvious that it is a sensible restriction, but also felt weird having no caravans on site.
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There are certainly a few CLs that don't take M/Hs, so no difference really, Nav.
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Where in my post did I ask for public funds? I mentioned communities. Some communities have already put these facilities in place as they find it is a net earner for them. They will have used funding for community improvement such as windfarm or other local capital funding. This is the case abroad. Just because you do not wish to have these facilities why do you want to stop others having them?
The club has full service pitches put in because there is a demand for them. That is only of interest to a minority of the membership. Why should the demand for basic no frills pitches not be fulfilled?
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Not many visitors from abroad are aware of the possibility of joining the clubs overseas membership. When speaking to people in Europe who ask me about visiting the UK I tell them about CLs and Club membership. That is why I used the word "readily" as most overseas visitors are not aware of this.
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The club has full service pitches put in because there is a demand for them. That is only of interest to a minority of the membership. Why should the demand for basic no frills pitches not be fulfilled?
Are we back to asking the club to make this provision? I thought your post was about local communities. Service pitches are totally different, you only have to see how quickly they get booked despite costing £4.0 more a night. They are maximising the value of a rectangle of land and this is available for all members. The club only has so much space available, why would it want to use it to provide pitches it could let for substantially more, to just one sector? Even if they are made available to all, it does not make any sort of economic sense to go down that route.
I am all in favour of local community or private company provision. Just don't see it as benifiting the CC.
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Hi Easy, so, can I take it from this that the T could stand for Trigger?
Fools & Horses 1996
Trigger- And that's what I've done. Maintained it for 20 years. This old brooms had 17 new heads and 14 new handles in its time.
Sid- How the hell can it be the same b----y broom then?
Trigger There's the picture. What more proof do you need?1 -
Isn't community funding also public money? See my earlier post re the Shetland example funded by the EU. That was to set up sites in communities where they previously did not exist and the sites are not exclusively for the use of motorhomers. They are not provided just for MH-ers who want to tour on a whim and can't be bothered with booking at existing sites. In other words, the Shetland sites are for the majority, not a minority who believe they should have special treatment.
I don't think anyone has said they don't want the aires you campaign for, only that they shouldn't be a drain on the public purse, or on club funds.
Why don't you follow WTG's advice and engage consultants to put together a business case to put to councils? I'm afraid you're on a hiding to nothing otherwise, especially in the current economic climate.
Your comment about serviced pitches is totally irrelevant, by the way.
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Having to join a Club in order to tour with a Motorhome is an idea which mainland Europeans would never dream of doing - and a lot of first time UK motorhomers seem to feel the same way.
Booking in advance, maybe many months ahead, at any sort of Club site is not their life style - they make an on the spot decision to go when the sun shines, to move on just when they feel like it , and to stay overnight wherever they wish.
If I were younger I would do the same, without joining any Club at all.
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Nobody says that you have to use a particular organisation's sites when touring UK as there are plenty of alternative sites, nor do you have to book months in advance. As for Europeans would never dream of joining a club to tour - you surely realise that this is far from true. Caravan Club sites in certain areas of the UK seem to attract European users including motorhomes.
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Maybe David feels like me that if a local authority sees a significant advantage to the economics of their community then that is a matter purely for them and the community. As for direct income by providing 'proper' aires there does not seem to be much business interest.
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Don't both our major clubs have reciprocal arrangements with simiiar European caravanning clubs/organisations? I believe this is still the case and it could explain why we see Europeans on club sites.
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Community funding is often about the needs of a local area, funding a youth club, a shop, a playground, a cafe. It's something that's specific to a local community and it could be an aire if the community feels it will bring in a benefit eg payments for staying, use of local amenities, food buying etc. TW mentions Shetland where there are small community sites ad they've decided that all can stay, from back packers to caravanners and not just visitors, locals use them too. But it's up to the community to decide, apply for grants and funds, raise local funds etc. They have to run and organise these places too. All things are possible if a community thinks something is a good idea with a sound basis (like the villages and communes in France wanted aires) and it's a local choice. The public purse contributes to all sorts of enterprises.
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If I have understood the premise of the original post the idea is that Local Authorities are being asked to consider their rules to make more provision for the parking of motorhomes. No one is saying they should. Having considered it, they are free to reject and continue as they were. Some car parks could be adapted for a few motorhome spaces for a modest outlay which could then be recovered by an appropriate increase parking fees to reflect the greater use of space. Parking areas that currently don't allow overnight parking could be amended. It's all about the question being asked not a request for vast sums of money to be spent.
In this country it is unlikely that stand alone motorhome aires are a viable proposition financially given land values in the places where people would like to park. So the answer is to persuade local authorities and the likes of stately homes, businesses with a lot of surface parking to think about giving over some of that space for motorhome parking. Worth a try I think.
David
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